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The Galchenyuk Debate


Commandant

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On the "Cup window," I don't think you can panic about what other teams might or might not look like in 2-3 years. That way lies madness. Look to your own core and how good it is and how old it is. Let other teams worry about themselves.

 

We seem to be forgetting that Galy was basically a PPG player before his injury. That is legitimate #1 C production. So my preference is to go out and get a bona-fide #2 C (or 1A), because that will probably entail less radical surgery to the rest of the lineup. DON is right that some combo of Sergachev, Beaulieu, Gallagher and picks and second-tier FW prospects are the elements we have to play with. Including Sergachev in a package really bothers me because dealing him away risks crippling the blueline once Weber regresses - or even once Markov finally stops performing - but he will surely be the piece other teams want back. Whatever we do, it's gonna hurt.

 

I dunno, maybe Sergachev + Gallagher for Duchene and a top-4 defensive prospect. They get the better D, we get the better FW, but both teams receive two quality assets.

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

On the "Cup window," I don't think you can panic about what other teams might or might not look like in 2-3 years. That way lies madness. Look to your own core and how good it is and how old it is. Let other teams worry about themselves.

 

We seem to be forgetting that Galy was basically a PPG player before his injury. That is legitimate #1 C production. So my preference is to go out and get a bona-fide #2 C (or 1A), because that will probably entail less radical surgery to the rest of the lineup. DON is right that some combo of Sergachev, Beaulieu, Gallagher and picks and second-tier FW prospects are the elements we have to play with. Including Sergachev in a package really bothers me because dealing him away risks crippling the blueline once Weber regresses - or even once Markov finally stops performing - but he will surely be the piece other teams want back. Whatever we do, it's gonna hurt.

 

I dunno, maybe Sergachev + Gallagher for Duchene and a top-4 defensive prospect. They get the better D, we get the better FW, but both teams receive two quality assets.

kk CC  but madness is starting to set in (at least if you listen to radio call-ins lol)...any deal will involve the players you mentioned...but i also think it will involve multiple teams...i have a feeling it's a 3-team thing with players going in different directions...in any case I hope we don't go the rental route...

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44 minutes ago, THE Bobby Orr said:

agreed...but if the team starts winning again and looks like a serious SC contender, the fans will come around.  BTW, i did not like the PK - Weber trade (kinda bizarre move)  ...but Weber isn't the problem..

 

 

I don't feel Weber is the biggest problem this team has, but he hasn't come as advertised. Part of that I don't feel is his fault. Pairing him with Alex Emelin just pulled his ability down, something people for some reason weren't noticing just because Emelin was hitting guys hard. He has no points in the past five games and has had his worst games against playoff contenders and teams with speed. At this point he looks to me like Dion Phaneuf in Toronto. It's not his fault, but he's not up to expectation either.

 

Now, does that mean Subban would have been any better? This team does have some serious trouble getting the puck out this season, but they'd probably be losing just as much as they have been with P.K. in and out due to injury. It gets forgotten that PK was on fire before he got hurt with 21 points in 24 games, his four goals in that span putting him in the Top 10 of defencemen for goals. 

 

But with your, "the team starts winning again and looks like a serious SC contender" they haven't looked like a contender for the past 40 games. They are 17-16-7 in that time. They have lost 23 of their past 40 games. Without the 13-1-1 start they are barely a playoff contender. Take the performance from November until now and Montreal is 6th in the conference, one point over the Senators, Bruins, and Flyers. And the Bruins just fired their coach!

 

You have to ask yourself, are the Canadiens better than the Blue Jackets? Better than the Penguins? Better than the Rangers? Better than the Capitals? Not by a glance at the record, but the team itself. I don't see it. That's not Weber's fault, but he's the guy that was supposed to bring leadership and stability and toughness and order. He hasn't done much of that this season compared to last season. Weber hasn't been as important as Radulov. 

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1 minute ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I don't feel Weber is the biggest problem this team has, but he hasn't come as advertised. Part of that I don't feel is his fault. Pairing him with Alex Emelin just pulled his ability down, something people for some reason weren't noticing just because Emelin was hitting guys hard. He has no points in the past five games and has had his worst games against playoff contenders and teams with speed. At this point he looks to me like Dion Phaneuf in Toronto. It's not his fault, but he's not up to expectation either.

 

Now, does that mean Subban would have been any better? This team does have some serious trouble getting the puck out this season, but they'd probably be losing just as much as they have been with P.K. in and out due to injury. It gets forgotten that PK was on fire before he got hurt with 21 points in 24 games, his four goals in that span putting him in the Top 10 of defencemen for goals. 

 

But with your, "the team starts winning again and looks like a serious SC contender" they haven't looked like a contender for the past 40 games. They are 17-16-7 in that time. They have lost 23 of their past 40 games. Without the 13-1-1 start they are barely a playoff contender. Take the performance from November until now and Montreal is 6th in the conference, one point over the Senators, Bruins, and Flyers. And the Bruins just fired their coach!

 

You have to ask yourself, are the Canadiens better than the Blue Jackets? Better than the Penguins? Better than the Rangers? Better than the Capitals? Not by a glance at the record, but the team itself. I don't see it. That's not Weber's fault, but he's the guy that was supposed to bring leadership and stability and toughness and order. He hasn't done much of that this season compared to last season. Weber hasn't been as important as Radulov. 

 

I'm not worried about the Habs being 500 over that stretch.  You can go back and look at my posts, When Chuck got hurt I said, if we can play 500 hockey between now and mid february we will be fine. 

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1 minute ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

This slump has lasted two seasons now with only a 15 game break.

i agree with the sentiment of your post MoLG...we can't just keep apologizing for the team year after year...i say again this is as good a year as any to make a serious run.  who thought the Bolts would be last going into the stretch??...Julien fired going INTO the stretch, Detroit on the decline (Babcock was smart to get out)...the Sens are emerging as our only obstacles - i admit they have our number - but they are very beatable...i mean why not try?  

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Corsi looks fine... as long as you aren't getting sub 900 goaltending from Scrivens and Condon.

It mirrors last year's corsi to this point in the season, which just proves my point from last season, the issue was that we didn't get competent goaltending for most of the year.  Once we fell too far behind (about this time last year) the team gave up. 

 

But I have no issue with mirroring the October - February Corsi for 2015-16 and 2016-17. 

 

Both show a team that was strong in possession overall. 

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4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Corsi looks fine... as long as you aren't getting sub 900 goaltending from Scrivens and Condon.

It mirrors last year's corsi to this point in the season, which just proves my point from last season, the issue was that we didn't get competent goaltending for most of the year.  Once we fell too far behind (about this time last year) the team gave up. 

 

But I have no issue with mirroring the October - February Corsi for 2015-16 and 2016-17. 

 

Both show a team that was strong in possession overall. 

interesting that corsi mirrors last year; same timeframe...imo this is a significantly different team. I guess it reflects the MT system

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15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Corsi looks fine... as long as you aren't getting sub 900 goaltending from Scrivens and Condon.

It mirrors last year's corsi to this point in the season, which just proves my point from last season, the issue was that we didn't get competent goaltending for most of the year.  Once we fell too far behind (about this time last year) the team gave up. 

 

The goaltending isn't bad this year. It's the defence that's atrocious. And looking at Condon's performance this season, looks like it might have been more defence than goaltending last year as well.

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I would not be surprised at all if Bergevin focuses on the D and settles for a Hanzal-type at C.

 

Sounds about right.

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1 hour ago, THE Bobby Orr said:

interesting that corsi mirrors last year; same timeframe...imo this is a significantly different team. I guess it reflects the MT system

 

I thought to this point last season, that the team was not near as bad as their record.  The ran into a rare combination of getting lots of chances but being snake bit offensively, and getting subpar goaltending. 

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

The goaltending isn't bad this year. It's the defence that's atrocious. And looking at Condon's performance this season, looks like it might have been more defence than goaltending last year as well.

 

Condon was bad last year, no way around that. 

 

He's improved.  first off, He worked hard in the off-season to improve and its paid off, secondly he's got a year of experience and doesn't panic anymore, his mental game is better... third, he's getting more rest in ottawa than he got in Montreal.  All of this is part of playing better this year.  Doesn't change the fact that the 2015-16 goaltending wasn't good enough.. 

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Keep Galchenyuk.

Use Juulsen, one 1st Rounder either this year or next, one or 2 of the extra 2nds over the next few years, and maybe McCarron or Scherbak and go after a talented forward.

Van Riemsdyke, Duchene, Landeskog or one of the Tampa forwards. 

Galchenyuk needs to play with top 6 players or his talent is wasted. Montreal  requires another top 6 individual to win a cup

 

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Lol at this 'debate'.  Do we improve our depth at C by trading our best C?  That strategy hasn't improved our defense.  Personally, I don't think we can currently look at our Centers and say that we have the depth of a Cup contender.  That would be improved if we substituted Tavares for Chucky, let's say, but we'd still have the same hole at #2.  Danault is great but he'd look a lot better as our third C.

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