GDT Deadline Day GDT

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, habs rule said:

He does not know what to do, he knows he needs offence but can't find any' He is right when he says that most moves turn out to be sideways moves. The little offence he had is drying up. He now has 4 guys who are scoring. Mainly 3. That will give a GM grey hair. When he got here he was full of enthusiasm, hope. He laughed and joked. Now there is just excuses. Firing Le Genius was probably terribly difficult. The same as it was when Big Bob fired Carbo. I would not be suprised if this season ends badly to see Marc drop the keys on the desk and head out.

 

I doubt that he will give up. For God's sake, this has to be the dream job of any hockey executive. These guys know they are going to face challenges. Bergy will be here for as long as Molson wants him IMHO.

 

I stand by the claim that this team seems no better, and in fact quite possibly worse, than the 2015 team, though. Part of that is that Gallagher and Pleks were scoring back then and it was still possible to believe that guys like Eller would produce in the crunch, while our defence was significantly better at moving the puck. That team also seemed to have really tight internal chemistry (as everyone attested) - a group you could imagine progressing together to eventually win. Nobody talks about 'great chemistry in the room' any more. The excitement, the belief that the sky is the limit for this core, is no longer there.

 

The future is, as Yoda said, always in motion. I'm certainly not ruling out that it all comes together somehow. I'm just disappointed that a team that appeared to be on the way up has (at best) flatlined instead.

[huzer]

11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Its true no one knows for sure. 

 

On the TSN Deadline show, i forget which insider it was, but he said that Chayka was asking for a second round pick, and told teams that he wouldn't sell Vrbata any lower than that.  You can take that for what its worth, but that was the reported price, and I know that isn't 100% confirmation. 

 

The only way I'll blame Bergevin for not acquiring Vrbata is if he said he didn't even inquire about him. If he inquired, I'll have to trust his judgement that the cost was too high. It seems his bonuses could have been a deterrent as well.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I think after five years, it's time for a lot of Habs fans to get their head out of Bergevin's ass.

[DON]

2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I have no doubt in my mind that Bergevin can do the job better than I would.

 

But I also bet that he can't see the forest from the trees and his own biases have got the best of him.

 

He used to be an alpha, ready to fight anyone for the team. Now he sounds passionless and has since Therrien was fired. I'm sure when he's done he'll talk about how the job isn't fun for him anymore. He surrounded it with his friends like Lapointe and Mellanby and is now expected to do real work. You can tell it's wearing him thin.

Well, that is your take, but again based on what exactly? Is it a stressful job, no doubt, is deadline day busy for GMs again yes, but is he ready to go postal or have a mental breakdown that is a stretch.

[DON]

4 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

2 hours ago, huzer said:

Everyone would've loved a top 6 forward and top 2 defender. Where were they? Vrbata? 15 other playoff teams passed on him, too. Vanek? Nobody Habs related wanted him. Shattenkirk? Didn't fit the need correctly, plays right side. Why acquire someone using future assets, and then play him out of position, more than likely resulting in his failure on the team. How would have acquiring those players now (the rental crop wasn't superb) have affected the expansion draft protection list?

 

Ultimately, we don't know what teams asked of the Canadiens in trades, who Bergy called, and about whom. Should he explicitly say what teams he called and what players they discussed? Heck, GMs in fantasy leagues won't publicly say such things. Apparently, Bergevin was active at the deadline, but not active the "right way".

 

I'm also speaking ONLY of what are typical deadline deals. Nobody expected top name players with term to be moved. And the available UFAs from non contenders was a pretty uninspiring list. Given what actually happened at the deadline, I'm confident that Bergevin did a pretty good job without parting with any significant assets. At worst, the team is out some lower tier picks and Andrighetto. I don't believe the trades made will have a significant impact of making/not making the playoffs. I do think the players acquired can be more useful in their appropriate roles than what the Habs gave up. And I have confidence that Julien will use those players correctly.

 

nice take

 

[DON]

8 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

I'm saying he should have got Vrbata.  Did Vrbata cost Sergachev???

 

Vrbata has 47 points this year.   Thats playing with no talent in Phoenix.  Its one more point than Radulov, and we love Radulov. 

 

If you think that doesn't help our sputtering offence, I don't know what to tell you. 

 

Simply on paper and ignorant of any trade offer by Habs or ask by Arizona you are basing an argument. What deals are you positive were offered to Arizona by all the teams? Did Bergevin talk to Arizona, what did he offer?

Again, you are simply making assumptions and wild ass guess what would cost for player X or Y and saying he didn't offer enough or all Habs Mgmt simply overlooked a guy with 47points, when they did send 2 scouts to one of last Arizona games, but of course that dosent factor into failure to land a sniper. Again I, like 99.9% of HabFans am disappointed they didn't add a skilled scorer, but you must agree that to overpay (Duchene not good enough to deal away Sergachev for) isn't the smartest route to take long term.

[Commandant]

I refer you to my post above.  No one knows for sure what he wanted, but apparently a 2nd round pick would have got it done per TSN. 

 

 

[Guest Stogey24]

43 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

I think after five years, it's time for a lot of Habs fans to get their head out of Bergevin's ass.

The love is crazy. 

 

Looks can take you far in this world. 

 

I wouldnt know, just saying  

[huzer]

56 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

I think after five years, it's time for a lot of Habs fans to get their head out of Bergevin's ass.

 

Personally, I'm only referring to this year's TDL. As far as other moves, I don't blanket support/disapprove of any GM. Bergevin has made good moves, bad moves. I don't believe he's made enough of an effort throughout his tenure to improve the team. At some point when prospects don't pan out, you have to trade to improve the team. I don't think he's done a good enough job being forward thinking enough to build/improve the team and has been poor in identifying declining assets. I also don't think that he's driven the team into the ground, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, either.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

50 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I refer you to my post above.  No one knows for sure what he wanted, but apparently a 2nd round pick would have got it done per TSN. 

 

 

Of course it would have been nice to add anyone who can score but right wing isn't a weakness of ours, relatively speaking. I'd rather fix our center, defense and left wing positions before right wing. Your choice shows how slim the pickings were. 

[BCHabnut]

21 minutes ago, huzer said:

 

Personally, I'm only referring to this year's TDL. As far as other moves, I don't blanket support/disapprove of any GM. Bergevin has made good moves, bad moves. I don't believe he's made enough of an effort throughout his tenure to improve the team. At some point when prospects don't pan out, you have to trade to improve the team. I don't think he's done a good enough job being forward thinking enough to build/improve the team and has been poor in identifying declining assets. I also don't think that he's driven the team into the ground, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, either.

Good points. Under Gainey and the ghost, we saw Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Gallagher (until this season) step up and become important players for the team. Under Bergevin, we have seen him try to fill holes through trades. Even though he was adamant that the philosophy would be to build through draft and development. He seems to do the opposite and the farm system is a steaming pile of crap. MB and his group have not developed one guy of any sort of impact through the system. The only bright spots in his tenure (galchenyuk and Lehkonen) were developed elsewhere. Junior or Europe. In a cap system, if you cant develope players and fill needs with young guys, you are at a huge disadvantage. So, the expectation to fill through trades is not an unreasonable one. The 5 year track record for draft and develope shows that his group is pretty much inept at it. So I think it's very reasonable to question why he traded his only mobile defenseman over personality issues, only to 6 months later fire the coach who was probably part of these issues. I think it's reasonable to question why his management group cannot developed prospects. I think it's reasonable to ask "why if you can't develop these prospects, are you unwilling to fill the voids in the system by trading them?"

 

Ultimately though, I place the blame on inept player development. 

[Commandant]

15 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Of course it would have been nice to add anyone who can score but right wing isn't a weakness of ours, relatively speaking. I'd rather fix our center, defense and left wing positions before right wing. Your choice shows how slim the pickings were. 

 

Shaw can play on the Left side.  Gallagher isn't producing in the top 6 this year.  I think we could have fit him in, but yes a C would have been the best fit. 

[Lovett's Magnatones]

1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

The love is crazy. 

 

Looks can take you far in this world. 

 

I wouldnt know, just saying  

 

Binky Bergevin is above average at best.

 

He came into the job with a Trumpian flourish of press conferences, front office expansion, and made a lot of popular but no brainer decisions like buying out Gomez and then Kaberle the next year.

 

After five years it appears his best days are behind him. Again, Weber looks like shit 60 games into a billion year contract and they've traded one set of problems for another. But this is really typical of most GMs. It's easy to fix mistakes, but only one GM builds a Cup winning team per year.

 

I don't mind the deadline, this is what I think of his entire body of work.

[DON]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

I refer you to my post above.  No one knows for sure what he wanted, but apparently a 2nd round pick would have got it done per TSN. 

 

 

Yes, heard same rumour. YET, not one team jumped on it...so would seem that rumour likely is total BS, wouldn't you assume? Also heard Arizona wanted to keep him and simply didn't want to trade him, which seems more plausible, no?

[Commandant]

Other teams may not have had the cap space to fit his playoff bonuses.  Or might have had other priorities, rather than top 6 forward, they might have wanted to address defence, or other things. 

[dlbalr]

20 hours ago, Davehab said:

if one of the Puck moving Dmen get injured maybe Sergachev gets the call?!!

 

The only way Sergachev can be recalled is if the Habs enter emergency conditions.  Basically, three d-men would have to be out before it could even become a possibility.

 

As for all the Vrbata talk, I think some teams were a bit gun shy as I suspect his reputation around the league is that he only seems to be at his best with the Coyotes.  Yes, he had the one good year in Vancouver before he fell off a cliff.  Go back to his time in Tampa, he was lousy there but woke up again as soon as he went back to the desert.  I'm not saying it's the only reason he's still in Arizona but I wouldn't be surprised if this scared a team or two away.

[Commandant]

Apparently in previous years, when he had NTCs, he would always put teams well out of the playoffs as the only teams he could be traded to.  

 

Some GMs see this as him not wanting to win, and have questioned his KA-RAC-TER

[Guest Stogey24]

No pressure 

[Habsfan]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Apparently in previous years, when he had NTCs, he would always put teams well out of the playoffs as the only teams he could be traded to.  

 

Some GMs see this as him not wanting to win, and have questioned his KA-RAC-TER

I heard the same thing about Vrbata. Apparently he doesn't like playing in ''big'' markets!

[DON]

5 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Other teams may not have had the cap space to fit his playoff bonuses.  Or might have had other priorities, rather than top 6 forward, they might have wanted to address defence, or other things. 

 

Cant argue with that, but also cant then get upset at something you are totally guessing at. Do you really think Bergevin was just being cheap, didn't know the stats of every available player, hasnt been in touch with many agents/GMs in past few months, was too conservative to make a move, had no input from capologist, etc? Us armchair GMs can suggest or question why didn't he sign this or that player, but just aint quite that simple as 'I heard on TSN they only wanted a 2nd round pick' so why isn't he in a F'in Hab jersey!

[Commandant]

Sportsnet Stat: 6 goals in last 6 home games

 

We don't need someone who can create offense

[Commandant]

Elliotte Friedmann's 30 thoughts.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-trades-left-table-deadline-day/

 

16. John Shannon was probably the only person on the planet who predicted Vrbata wouldn’t go anywhere. According to a couple of the bidders, Arizona GM John Chayka set a bar (likely a second-round pick) and wasn’t trading Vrbata unless someone agreed to it. Why? At some point, you’ve got to keep people. The Coyotes like Vrbata and he clearly likes them. But, trading him away — again — was going to be the end. How many times can you break up and get back together? He’s happy there and doesn’t come at an outrageous price. When no one was willing to pay that price (and the Vanek trade indicates the market), Arizona was fine with holding.

[Neech]

6 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

Binky Bergevin is above average at best.

 

 

I'll take above average.  He has a good record of getting contributors at the deadline, and at bargains. He moved decisively when Julien hit the market. Over the long term, however, he hasn't added significantly to the core.  

[DON]

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/what-to-make-of-the-canadiens-moves-hio-show