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BlueKross

Julien vs Therrien

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BlueKross    26

This will be a discussion for a long time, as always. I do appreciate Julien getting all his charges into action and keeping them fresh. This will pay dividends in the course of a long playoff run. I remember Therrien leaving marginal players on the bench for weeks and months on end and wondering why they couldn't play when they got into lineup. We are going to need everyone at their best.

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dreegking    1

You know, sometimes it just depends on the gap between deserved 4 th line and benchwarmers and plug, or fit on another line perhaps. I have zero problem with past strategy. And current rotation. I'd prefer players make themselves indispensable quite frankly. 

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Stogey24    280

So what's the question here?

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DON    37
19 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

So what's the question here?

How much do we all miss Mikey maybe?

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Stogey24    280

This much  

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KoRP    154

*crickets*

 

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DON    37

Seems to me, that has been little change under new coach. Basically is as Pateryn's wife put it, maybe not the most PC statement obviously, but...same ol.  

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habs rule    392

This thread seems very premature and of no consequence to me. We beat the Therrien to bits. Barber Bill has only been here 17 games. Lets see what this team looks like a year from now then we can compare.

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39 minutes ago, habs rule said:

This thread seems very premature and of no consequence to me. We beat the Therrien to bits. Barber Bill has only been here 17 games. Lets see what this team looks like a year from now then we can compare.

^dat....so far, i'll go out a limb and say CJ does better at press conferences than MT,

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DON    37
1 hour ago, THE Bobby Orr said:

^dat....so far, i'll go out a limb and say CJ does better at press conferences than MT,

Press Conferences....Press Conferences! Your talking about Press Conferences? Good god, what a way to judge a coach.

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Therrien should have been fired at the end of last season. It's not that 2015-16 was his fault, but the organization needed to turn the page, and it was silly to double down on a guy who was approaching his traditional 'best before' date while coming off the worst season in years.

 

Julien is a proven, highly successful NHL coach has (unlike MT) has actually won, and is clearly the top bilingual coach who was likely to be available in the foreseeable future. So like everybody and his dog, I fully support the move, although certainly Barber Bill is not a saviour or anything.

 

But if BlueKross is seeking a detailed analysis of differences between the two coaches, well, ya got me. Julien seems more dedicated to quick transition and speed that MT was, but other than that, I'll defer to the more refined hockey minds.

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Habsfan1989    4

Julien hasn't brought in his own staff yet, so you can't compare the two just yet.  We are going to see this off season with who he brings in and the type of players he wants to bring in.

 

so you won't see a difference in the two tell about around the Christmas break.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Press Conferences....Press Conferences! Your talking about Press Conferences? Good god, what a way to judge a coach.

i was joking...sheesh

 

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Commandant    635

Biggest difference is in the penalty kill.... Julien's team is much better. 

 

Smaller differences, Julien's team is showing a drastic reduction in high quality scoring chances at 5v5 as well.  Far less shots from the slot. 

 

Julien's team is showing an increase in possession overall. 

 

Also a small increase of shots from close to the net, but not an increase in goals, at least not yet.  This is likely due to a small sample size. 

 

Julien's team is showing a worse powerplay (though Therrien's team had a powerplay that was declining from where it was early in the season, so this might just be a continuation of a trend that started under Therrien).  Still it would be nice to turn this issue around. 

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BlueKross    26
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

if BlueKross is seeking a detailed analysis of differences between the two coaches, well, ya got me. Julien seems more dedicated to quick transition and speed that MT was, but other than that, I'll defer to the more refined hockey minds.

The question in my mind is are we going to see a Therrien 2, or is there going to be enough of a difference to make a difference.

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DON    37
1 hour ago, THE Bobby Orr said:

i was joking...sheesh

 

Yes, I should of put sarcasm thingy at end.

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Trizzak    487

Hey, whoa now, I thought there was a silent but universal agreement that if there was something about the team we liked we would credit Julien, but if there was anything we didn't like we would blame/scapegoat echoes of Therrien's system.

 

This thread is encouraging nuance and discussion, and I won't stand for it!

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xXx..CK..xXx    162
4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Therrien should have been fired at the end of last season. It's not that 2015-16 was his fault, but the organization needed to turn the page, and it was silly to double down on a guy who was approaching his traditional 'best before' date while coming off the worst season in years.

 

Julien is a proven, highly successful NHL coach has (unlike MT) has actually won, and is clearly the top bilingual coach who was likely to be available in the foreseeable future. So like everybody and his dog, I fully support the move, although certainly Barber Bill is not a saviour or anything.

 

But if BlueKross is seeking a detailed analysis of differences between the two coaches, well, ya got me. Julien seems more dedicated to quick transition and speed that MT was, but other than that, I'll defer to the more refined hockey minds.

I think it's difficult to fire the coach during or immediately after a season where Price was nonexistent. Bergevin's response was acquiring Ben Scrivens as a backup. I do not have a detailed analysis outlined either, but it's entirely possible and even natural that Bergevin felt just as responsible as Therrien for the outcome of the season. 

 

I just keep seeing this statement that Therrien should have been fired at that precise moment and while he did have his haters who wanted him gone for awhile, I think it's easy to say in hindsight that he should have been the scapegoat for the season, especially rather than someone else. Not to mention even the best coach would feel the impact of Price being lost.

 

As for the difference between Therrien and Julien so far, I did not expect much of a change. It's a very short sample size but from what I've gathered, Julien seems to be a much more positive and encouraging catch versus Therrien's rather authoritarian style. I think it's had a mental effect on some and clearly player's like Shaw and Price have excelled. On the other hand, come to think of it, Emelin's confidence seemed to get shaken up a bit by his press box time but Julien still had positive remarks to make about him and mentioned that Emelin generally is a permanent fixture on the back end. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Trizzak said:

Hey, whoa now, I thought there was a silent but universal agreement that if there was something about the team we liked we would credit Julien, but if there was anything we didn't like we would blame/scapegoat echoes of Therrien's system.

 

This thread is encouraging nuance and discussion, and I won't stand for it!

ok..how about this? 17 games is too little to really make a realistic assessment. but i have two observations  1)  Shaw seems to have elevated his game under CJ...and 2) pairing Markov with Weber is working just fine.  

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KoRP    154

Julien speaks much better English than MT :wacko:

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10 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I think it's difficult to fire the coach during or immediately after a season where Price was nonexistent. Bergevin's response was acquiring Ben Scrivens as a backup. I do not have a detailed analysis outlined either, but it's entirely possible and even natural that Bergevin felt just as responsible as Therrien for the outcome of the season. 

 

I just keep seeing this statement that Therrien should have been fired at that precise moment and while he did have his haters who wanted him gone for awhile, I think it's easy to say in hindsight that he should have been the scapegoat for the season, especially rather than someone else. Not to mention even the best coach would feel the impact of Price being lost.

 

As for the difference between Therrien and Julien so far, I did not expect much of a change. It's a very short sample size but from what I've gathered, Julien seems to be a much more positive and encouraging catch versus Therrien's rather authoritarian style. I think it's had a mental effect on some and clearly player's like Shaw and Price have excelled. On the other hand, come to think of it, Emelin's confidence seemed to get shaken up a bit by his press box time but Julien still had positive remarks to make about him and mentioned that Emelin generally is a permanent fixture on the back end. 

 

 

 

Good post. I was never a Therrien hater, but I said repeatedly as last season wound down that MT should be fired, not because he was a horrible coach, but for the same reasons I reiterate above: we needed a change, a cultural shift, after that disastrous season; and MT was approaching his historic best-by date. This is one case where I can look back in retrospect and say I was 100% right. Instead, we irrationally traded our best player (other than Price) in order to please a coach we ended up firing anyway. Totally unnecessary.

 

On your last paragraph, coaching changes always bring a good hard shake-up to a room. Previous coach's pets get benched, guys that were struggling get wind in their sails, etc.. I've actually come to think that a team that is building from within, with lots of young and young-ish players, probably should make a habit of replacing its coach every 3-4 seasons. Coaches make up their minds about players, and vice-versa, and the player-coach relationship collects baggage over time. A wise team will clear the air and get a new coach in to take a fresh look at the talent, in the fine-grained, day-after-day fashion that only a coach can bring. (This modus operandi would apply less to a veteran team, though; a 30-year-old player is what he is, and no amount of coaching is gonna change it).

 

 

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On 3/27/2017 at 6:07 PM, DON said:

Press Conferences....Press Conferences! Your talking about Press Conferences? Good god, what a way to judge a coach.

Sadly, if this wasn't a factor, we could hire a great coach that didn't speak French.

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11 hours ago, Jeff Price (no relation) said:

Sadly, if this wasn't a factor, we could hire a great coach that didn't speak French.

 

Like whom?

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44 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Like whom?

 

I don't mean when Therien was fired, I mean in general.

 

When the Habs are looking for a coach, we're limited to about 10% of the pool of available coaches, because most coaches don't speak French. It drives me nuts that the Leafs may have the best coach in the NHL and Montreal would never have even tried to hire him, even if they were in the market for a coach when he was available.

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5 hours ago, Jeff Price (no relation) said:

When the Habs are looking for a coach, we're limited to about 10% of the pool of available coaches, because most coaches don't speak French.

 

Okay, but if you can't name an English only speaking coach that was better than the choices Montreal had to pick from the billingual coaches, it's kind of hard to complain isn't it?

 

If Therrien was fired and Montreal passed on Babcock, you'd have an argument. But that wasn't the case. The General Manager was confident in his head coach. Who should Montreal have hired instead who only spoke English when Therrien was hired? Or when he was fired and they went with Julien? Because the team reached out to Florida to speak to Gallant and he only speaks English.

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