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BlueKross

Julien vs Therrien

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Fair enough...but clearly Briere found this approach alienating and demoralizing. So taking everything at face value, that does seem to be an instance of bad coaching.

:rolleyes:

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13 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Fair enough...but clearly Briere found this approach alienating and demoralizing. So taking everything at face value, that does seem to be an instance of bad coaching.

 

Context is important. 

When in the season did this happen? Is this the only approach he took with Briere? Did he try coddling and it didn't work? 

 

I mean we are only being relayed one incident here.  We don't have the entire history of their interactions. 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Sometimes a coach has to use tough love, and discipline.  

 

You can't coddle players all the time. 

 

These are adult professional athletes, not children. 

It’s also the coach’s job to find the approach that works with a player.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Context is important. 

When in the season did this happen? Is this the only approach he took with Briere? Did he try coddling and it didn't work? 

 

I mean we are only being relayed one incident here.  We don't have the entire history of their interactions. 

Context is important. A coach who costs his teams playoff series by taking TWO selfish penalties is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black.

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8 hours ago, Commandant said:

I don't like Therrien, you all know this. 

 

but that Briere story is such a non-story. 

 

NHL coach said some mean words to a 36 year old pro hockey player behind closed doors?  Really?  Who cares?  Briere wasn't playing well and he was trying to motivate the guy....

 

Desharnais is quoted in the book saying after a bad game Therrien didn't talk to players at practice on ways to improve their game, instead he'd call them individually into his office 2 hours before the next game to rip into them, leaving them angry, frustrated, and unable to concentrate.

 

There is this 24ch video of Michel belittling Subban, and then when PK starts to ask a question he gets interrupted, given meaningless direction, and ignored.

 

Ryan Whitney has told numerous stories about how poorly Therrien interacts with his players.

 

Briere's story isn't a non-story. It is added context as to why players tune him out after 3 seasons. 

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Therrien is an awful coach. We knew it.

 

Briere though was rumoured to be a locker room leaker. Especially to Eklund. Which would explain why he'd say everyone hated him.

 

I don't think this is a non story but it just reaffirms that Therrien was rotten in the locker. Even if Briere was a leaker, there's better ways to handle people.

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5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s also the coach’s job to find the approach that works with a player.

 

Sure it is. 

 

But we only know about this one incident.  Its very isolated.  We don't have the full story of other approaches tried with Briere. 

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It's bern a while since we discussed coachig

 

despite the horrible results, I a me learning to appreciate the work CJ has done. When the team follows his structure and apply themselves, the Habs look good

 

I certainly don't. Is Therrien!

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45 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

It's bern a while since we discussed coachig

 

despite the horrible results, I a me learning to appreciate the work CJ has done. When the team follows his structure and apply themselves, the Habs look good

 

I certainly don't. Is Therrien!

Julien really ripped his team after last game, basically calling performance unprofessional and players better get heads out of their asses if expect to win or even be competitive. And I say good on him to publically call a spade a spade, after I am sure he and staff has tried all they know to motivate them "in-house".

Some have equated it to Therrien calling out his d-men in Pitt.

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 I heard that on the radio too, which prompted me to revisit this thread

CJ has been one of the positives this season

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I think that the heat is on Bergevin so much that Julien hasn't received his fair share of it. This team sucks. Even with the much maligned off season, nobody thought they would be this bad. This team has found a way to lose games everyway possible. How many times have they given up multiple goals in like a minute? Or given up a lead in the third? He gets this team to shoot the pick from everywhere but yet we don't have the guys that drive the net. This is perhaps the most disorganized I can remember the Habs being. What has he done since he got hired, what's his record? At least Therrien got results, no matter how terrible he was perceived. 

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With this roster, I kinda doubt Therrien (or even Scotty Bowman) would get much more out of it.

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2 hours ago, illWill said:

I think that the heat is on Bergevin so much that Julien hasn't received his fair share of it. This team sucks. Even with the much maligned off season, nobody thought they would be this bad. This team has found a way to lose games everyway possible. How many times have they given up multiple goals in like a minute? Or given up a lead in the third? He gets this team to shoot the pick from everywhere but yet we don't have the guys that drive the net. This is perhaps the most disorganized I can remember the Habs being. What has he done since he got hired, what's his record? At least Therrien got results, no matter how terrible he was perceived. 

Gets canned from Boston and they completely turn things around... coincidence?

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12 hours ago, Habopotamus said:

Gets canned from Boston and they completely turn things around... coincidence?

Habs finished #1 in Atlantic under new coach, coincidence.

Both Habs and Bruins finished season 6-3-1 and lost 4-2 in 1st round.

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Julien may have grown stale by the end of his tenure in Boston, but lets not deny the success...

 

A Stanley Cup

Another Cup final

President's Trophies, 

 

etc...

 

Lets not pretend he was a bad coach in Boston, just cause he was stale after a decade there. 

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The nhl changed and he didn't adapt... 

 

I can't really say I blame Julien for this team's short comings though. 

Edited by Habopotamus

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I agree with the idea that CJ is playing yesterday's NHL but he doesn't exactly have a strong team in front of him. His handling of Galchenyuk is absurd and starting him on the 4th line in the playoffs when the team can't score is beyond absurd.

 

He did have some success in Boston no doubt but the nhl has changed and he hasn't.

 

Not to mention his firing from NJ just before the playoffs begin despite being #1 - This says a lot to me.

 

MT had his own issues but he also had a better team than CJ has now.

 

In my perfect world CJ would be fired along with MB and fresh blood brought in across the board.

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Julien never got to pick his assistant coaches and it's clear that Bergevin pushed him to make certain decisions with certain players.

 

He's a very good coach but he also has some glaring flaws that drove Jersey and Boston fans crazy and he's brought them to Montreal. 

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I'm starting to think that ol' Claude was the beneficiary of a stacked Bruins team that won the Cup. 

 

Bergeron

Chara

Recchi

Marchand

Krejci

Lucic

Wheeler

Seguin

Horton 

Ryder

Kaberle

Boychuk

Rask 

God aka Tim Thomas that year

 

That is one hell of a lineup and Montreal still almost put them out. 

 

* lots of righties on that team :lol:*

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, illWill said:

I'm starting to think that ol' Claude was the beneficiary of a stacked Bruins team that won the Cup. 

 

Bergeron

Chara

Recchi

Marchand

Krejci

Lucic

Wheeler

Seguin

Horton 

Ryder

Kaberle

Boychuk

Rask 

God aka Tim Thomas that year

 

That is one hell of a lineup and Montreal still almost put them out. 

 

* lots of righties on that team :lol:*

 

 

 

 

Subban and Markov were MONSTERS in that series and in the great 2014 demolition of the same team...so of course getting rid of them was Job One :lol:

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"Scoring goals is definitely our biggest problem right now. It isn't just the forwards. It's all five guys on the ice. We have to create something together," explained Drouin, on the Canadiens' struggles to generate goals. "If you look at teams right now, everybody works together. The five guys move in the offensive zone. They create confusion for other teams. Sometimes, we have trouble creating that."

 

"We want to win and you've got to score goals to win. When you're not scoring goals and that's your job, you're frustrated," said Pacioretty, who ranks second on the roster with 16 goals - two behind leader Brendan Gallagher. "It's not like we're missing 10 chances a night, it's like we're not creating anything and we have to figure out why."

 

To me this is coaching. They cannot generate any offense because they are the most predictable team in the league. Cycling around the perimeter until they finally lob the puck towards the net in hopes of a tip or rebound. They have absolutely zero creativity in the offensive zone, even Drouin seems to be stifled in that regard due to Julien's system. If a team is going through a scoring slump but is just not scoring on the chances they have, then you can chalk it up to variance and the pucks will eventually start to go in. When a team simply can't generate scoring chances, something needs to drastically change. 

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59 minutes ago, illWill said:

"Scoring goals is definitely our biggest problem right now. It isn't just the forwards. It's all five guys on the ice. We have to create something together," explained Drouin, on the Canadiens' struggles to generate goals. "If you look at teams right now, everybody works together. The five guys move in the offensive zone. They create confusion for other teams. Sometimes, we have trouble creating that."

 

"We want to win and you've got to score goals to win. When you're not scoring goals and that's your job, you're frustrated," said Pacioretty, who ranks second on the roster with 16 goals - two behind leader Brendan Gallagher. "It's not like we're missing 10 chances a night, it's like we're not creating anything and we have to figure out why."

 

To me this is coaching. They cannot generate any offense because they are the most predictable team in the league. Cycling around the perimeter until they finally lob the puck towards the net in hopes of a tip or rebound. They have absolutely zero creativity in the offensive zone, even Drouin seems to be stifled in that regard due to Julien's system. If a team is going through a scoring slump but is just not scoring on the chances they have, then you can chalk it up to variance and the pucks will eventually start to go in. When a team simply can't generate scoring chances, something needs to drastically change. 

 

This may all be true, but I think the key is that most teams attack as a five many unit - just as Pacioretty says above. To do that, you need defencemen who are capable of managing the attack from the offensive blueline. When we had Subban and Markov, we had two defenders capable of doing this at a high level, and a third (Petry) who could do it adequately. Now we have Petry and Weber - who, good as he is, is really not much more than a cannon from the point, not a guy who distributes the puck and QBs the offence, although certainly he is an offensive threat.

 

Give the Habs two higher-end puck movers like Subban and Markov circa 2014, and you would see an offensive improvement. Not enough to wholly compensate for the inadequacies of our FW unit, but enough to mitigate some of the problems we're complaining about.

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On 2018-02-03 at 10:47 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

A bit over a year later, it is clear that CJ has made a few players better ( e.g. Chucky)

and based on the interview by Engles with Drouin, it seems like CJ has allowed players to learn and grow into new roles:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricEngels/status/969044132286124032/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.habsworld.net%2F

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricEngels/status/969045453047259136/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.habsworld.net%2F

 

I'll be following how he manages the call ups from now until the end of the season

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I have trouble understanding how he has made anyone better.

 

We have a solid #1 centre with amazing offensive skills that he refuses to use as such and on a team that can't score and has no centres.

 

We have a really great offensive winger in Drouin that he plays as a centre. The whole world in on this kids shoulders to produce like a star in a role he is not meant to play.

 

Our two best offensive weapons are being misused on a team that can't score. Galchenyuk on the 4th line in the playoffs, again when we can't score is insane.

 

Even with injuries he refuses to let our natural centre play there.

 

He is lost in the year 2000 with MB and does not understand that speed and skill rule the NHL right now.

 

He is an asshat almost on the same level as MB

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