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BlueKross

Julien vs Therrien

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I'd like to see Julien fired just as much as Bergevin. 

 

Julien is exactly like Therrien. I see all the same tactics and favouritism. Julien just likes his team to control the puck a little more. Other than that, they run the same hockey school

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With Galy, what we've been seeing from CJ is a massive standing rebuke to Therrien. Julien has basically argued that Galy does not know how to play the game properly and has been reconstructing his game pretty much from scratch. That is a devastating criticism of the coach who had him for five years. IF Galy comes out the other side a better all-around player, then Julien did the right thing, But it also furthers the argument that Therrien should have been fired much sooner than he was. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

With Galy, what we've been seeing from CJ is a massive standing rebuke to Therrien. Julien has basically argued that Galy does not know how to play the game properly and has been reconstructing his game pretty much from scratch. That is a devastating criticism of the coach who had him for five years. IF Galy comes out the other side a better all-around player, then Julien did the right thing, But it also furthers the argument that Therrien should have been fired much sooner than he was. 

If Julien is the one doing the right thing, we can’t assume all coaches would have. As a result, Therrien couldn’t have been fired earlier with the same results because he was fired basically as soon as Julien became actually available. 

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46 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

If Julien is the one doing the right thing, we can’t assume all coaches would have. As a result, Therrien couldn’t have been fired earlier with the same results because he was fired basically as soon as Julien became actually available. 

 

What should have happened - and I said this at the time - was that Therrien should have been fired after the disastrous 2016 season. That's what any normal organization would have done. Then bring in a new coach, who would re-assess the team with fresh eyes: a new look at the state of the rebuild up to that point. This would have put management in a position to make any necessary personnel decisions, based on the new coach's input, leading up to the deadline in early 2017.

 

Instead, our idiot of a GM decided to stick with his bum-buddy and decided to target something called "character" and "leadership" as cause of the 2016 debacle, which translated, idiotically, into blaming PK Subban. But more to the point, Therrien ended up getting fired within a few months anyway - which proves that keep him on after 2016 was a mistake. Julien had minimal time to get a handle on the team before the 2017 deadline, so we burned that year, too.

 

All of this nonsense could have been avoided by the simple expediency of firing Therrien at the obvious moment. That's what happens when your GM is a fool.

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I'm not usually one to blame or praise coaches, but I hate the way the Habs play under Julien. It's boring, mind boggling and ineffective. And the way he coaches isn't geared towards the makeup of this team. He needs big bodies that grind and have a net presence, the Habs need a coach that encourages speed and offense for their young forwards. 

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I do wonder if Claude will get a say in a new set of assistant coaches. He's still using Therrien's last crew.

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

I'm not usually one to blame or praise coaches, but I hate the way the Habs play under Julien. It's boring, mind boggling and ineffective. And the way he coaches isn't geared towards the makeup of this team. He needs big bodies that grind and have a net presence, the Habs need a coach that encourages speed and offense for their young forwards. 

This is one observation I have of Julien as well. His  system does not result in very many odd man rushes. This small fast team needs to score on the rush. I prefer Julien hockey overall though. 

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2 hours ago, illWill said:

I'm not usually one to blame or praise coaches, but I hate the way the Habs play under Julien. It's boring, mind boggling and ineffective. And the way he coaches isn't geared towards the makeup of this team. He needs big bodies that grind and have a net presence, the Habs need a coach that encourages speed and offense for their young forwards. 

Julien is not the answer for this team. 

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13 minutes ago, Habopotamus said:

Julien is not the answer for this team. 

I doubt any coach is the answer to this team. The answer to this team is balance. Subtract a couple feisty top 6 potential wingers. Add a top 6 centre. Subtract a few #6 #7 defensemen and add a #2 and #4. Return price to form and a full season from Weber. 

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5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

With Galy, what we've been seeing from CJ is a massive standing rebuke to Therrien. Julien has basically argued that Galy does not know how to play the game properly and has been reconstructing his game pretty much from scratch. That is a devastating criticism of the coach who had him for five years. IF Galy comes out the other side a better all-around player, then Julien did the right thing, But it also furthers the argument that Therrien should have been fired much sooner than he was. 

 

I agree that CJ does not believe Gally know how to play or at least not play the way he likes.

 

It seems like we have a great race horse but CJ likes plow horses so he will force this great race horse to learn how be be a plow horse.

 

MT had issues but CJ has just as many.

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17 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I doubt any coach is the answer to this team. The answer to this team is balance. Subtract a couple feisty top 6 potential wingers. Add a top 6 centre. Subtract a few #6 #7 defensemen and add a #2 and #4. Return price to form and a full season from Weber. 

 

Yes no doubt! Our team is poorly built and no coach can fix that.

 

However if the GM and the coach are both living in 1999 then fixing one won't help the other. Both of these guys need to go

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1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Yes no doubt! Our team is poorly built and no coach can fix that.

 

However if the GM and the coach are both living in 1999 then fixing one won't help the other. Both of these guys need to go

I don't dislike the Julien system. It is safe smart high posession hockey with a solid percentage of high danger scoring chances. He puts them in a position to win. IMO. The biggest problem I see is the players inabiliy to make lateral plays and force goalies left to right. To me this is a personnel issue and not a coaching issue.

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30 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I don't dislike the Julien system. It is safe smart high posession hockey with a solid percentage of high danger scoring chances. He puts them in a position to win. IMO. The biggest problem I see is the players inabiliy to make lateral plays and force goalies left to right. To me this is a personnel issue and not a coaching issue.

Pacioretty has said himself that the team was focussing too much on strategy and not enough on playing the game.... when a coach is all about structure and tight knit hockey, The offensive part of the game takes a back seat. Players become too focused on who they're covering and where to be on the ice. 

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 Both of these guys need to go

But we all know, neither is going anywhere anytime soon. Change isn't always all its cracked up to be, especially given shallow pool of French GMs and Coaches to pick from, but if want to bitch about that, you know you are wasting your breath.

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4 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

I don't dislike the Julien system. It is safe smart high posession hockey with a solid percentage of high danger scoring chances. He puts them in a position to win. IMO. The biggest problem I see is the players inabiliy to make lateral plays and force goalies left to right. To me this is a personnel issue and not a coaching issue.

I think boston fans would disagree 

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58 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think boston fans would disagree 

With being the best team in the east for 5 years and winning the cup? 

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2 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

With being the best team in the east for 5 years and winning the cup? 

With how they have become one of the best teams after firing Julien.

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He had run his course I suppose. What sort of bet you wanna lay down t hat the habs make the playoffs next year?

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All coaches run their course, especially one who is with the same team after a decade. 

 

Its absolute lunacy to deny that Julien was a good coach for boston though.  Took them from a young team near the bottom of the league and had them as a perennial contender, who actually won a stanley cup, and made another finals appearance.  

 

If those results aren't good... I don't know what to tell you. 

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30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

All coaches run their course, especially one who is with the same team after a decade. 

 

Its absolute lunacy to deny that Julien was a good coach for boston though.  Took them from a young team near the bottom of the league and had them as a perennial contender, who actually won a stanley cup, and made another finals appearance.  

 

If those results aren't good... I don't know what to tell you. 

Consider who you are talking to, if there is a negative Hab-spin to be thought up, he will post it.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

All coaches run their course, especially one who is with the same team after a decade. 

 

Its absolute lunacy to deny that Julien was a good coach for boston though.  Took them from a young team near the bottom of the league and had them as a perennial contender, who actually won a stanley cup, and made another finals appearance.  

 

If those results aren't good... I don't know what to tell you. 

I've said before that I am not a CJ fan. But it is becoming clear to me that he has made some positive changes to the team.

Weighing everything that happened this season, CJ's has done well in restructuring the team's play and helping players who had trouble adjusting to that change. The season is  a write off, but there's are some positives

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Well...there may be legit reasons to question whether Julien handled Boston's young talent properly post-2011. 

 

I see him as a solid coach, like most other coaches. This means he is adequate, but also eminently replaceable. Otherwise put, as with Therrien, there is little evidence of his doing anything exceptional; you can't point to specific players dramatically blossoming under him, or point to a team playing above its head. If he sticks around, I won't mind. If he gets fired, I won't mind. 

 

What I mind is that under Bergevin the Habs have failed to use their AHL team to nurture elite bilingual coaching talent. Given the affirmative action policy of hiring only bilingual coaches, this is an inexcusable oversight that ties the team's hands when it comes to coaching changes.

 

In any case, the fundamental problem is not CJ. It's that the team has been lacerated by injury (Weber and Price), middling goaltending (Price), and, most of all, ridiculous lineup holes.

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Players who blossomed under Julien

 

Horton

Lucic

Boychuk

Krejci

Krug

Bergeron

Rask

Carlo

Marchand
Pastrnak

 

Many of those are post 2011

Yes, things didn't go great with Seguin, but there is still a question if that was Neely or Julien, and even if it was Julien, the fact remains he had a lot of hits. 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Players who blossomed under Julien

 

Horton

Lucic

Boychuk

Krejci

Krug

Bergeron

Rask

Carlo

Marchand
Pastrnak

 

Many of those are post 2011

Yes, things didn't go great with Seguin, but there is still a question if that was Neely or Julien, and even if it was Julien, the fact remains he had a lot of hits. 

From the behind the scenes video it seemed Neely and Chirelli were deciding votes for Segain to be gone, of course Julien may have felt same...or not.

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why is that post downvoted?  we are downvoting facts now?

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