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REV-G

Have we arrived at the point where we need sweeping changes?

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REV-G    15

Since our last Stanley Cup we seem to have always had a reasonable hope for the future. Other than a few years where things collapsed, we seem to have made strategic changes and have always bounced back to put us again on a path for hope for success.

 

I have been a Habs fan for over 50 years and I don't know if it's because I understand things a bit better now or if reality has truly set in. I can't help but believe we have hit the point where sweeping changes have to be made in order for us not to replicate the Leafs and end up going 50 years before we see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Habs fans who experienced the teams in the 70's and 80's and hearing the annual statement "The Stanley Cup parade will again take it's normal route", will never be content to be in the middle of the pack with an average team. We want more than that.

 

I believe the time has arrived and I also wonder if the man at the top sees it and is willing to make the changes which I think have to be radical. Players often are asked to "take one for the team" and I wonder if the owner, who I really respect as a person, is willing to take one for team. These are the two major changes that I think have to be made.

 

1. I think he has to remove himself from the hockey equation. I think we are suffering from having a President who is not a qualified hockey man. Our worst example over the past 20 years or more has been the Maple Leafs but they have turned the corner and it all started with putting in place a very good hockey man with head office [inner circle] experience. With the knowledge and connections he had in hockey he knew the right people and he brought them in and they are now one of the exciting teams going forward and are becoming a force to be reckoned with. Geoff Molson can still, as the owner, be the overseer of the team, with the new President reporting to him, but he has to turn the reigns over to a very good, qualified hockey man.

 

2. I really liked the Marc Bergevin hiring at the time but I think his approach and flaws have been exposed this year. Our pipeline of young talent seems very weak or non-existent in terms of giving us help from the minors. The team of coaches he has put in place to develop players seems a complete failure. His sticking with coaches after the results seem to indicate a change is needed has to be on him. Keeping Sylvain Lefebre in place season after season with losing records, players not being developed and in some cases regressing, and the comments I read from some of his players saying there seemed to be no system in place is indefensible. Going all this time without drafting a centre or trading for one or acquiring one somehow again, has to be on him. I think we need a new GM to start with what we have and begin again. 

 

I think Hab's fans would be willing, probably excited, to see these changes which would give us again a hope and future. Right now I don't think too many of us have a hope or see a very bright future for our Habs. I hope Geoff Molson and Marc Bergevin see that as well and I hope their goal is more than just having a decent team for the next 5 years.

 

So do you think Geoff Molson will do anything of significance? Does he even see the need for these kind of changes?

Do you think he's willing to move himself out and move someone else in?

 

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This is a great, thoughtful post. Thanks, Rev. 

 

The observation about Molson is valid. A title change might not help much in itself if the owner unfortunately wishes to stick his ignorant nose into hockey ops. But bringing in a president who is actually qualified could represent a valuable infusion of insight and connections at the managerial level.

 

I completely share your assessment of Bergevin. Like you, I supported him for a long time, but the body of work just weighs too heavily against him at this point, in my opinion.

 

In answer to your last question, I think if Molson were planning to fire Bergevin, he'd have done it already. And he probably doesn't see *himself* as the problem. But we have very little insight into owners' thought processes, so anything is possible.

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Stogey24    237

Good post. 

 

If anything was to happen, it would have already. 

 

When Beregvin signed that kid from the Khl, I basically knew we were stuck with him for atleast another year. 

 

As for Molson, he has no idea about hockey. He's a business man through and through. 

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REV-G    15

When we hired MB, if I recall, he called on Serge Savard to join him and give his input into their ultimate selection of a GM. I wonder if he still does that on occasion. I think Geoff Molson is a smart guy, he just doesn't have the hockey background. Most/many people in key leadership positions, in whatever field or organization, especially when they know they are lacking in certain areas which in this case is him not having the hockey background, have a discreet group of people they call upon for opinions and wisdom as they go through the decision making process, whether it be monthly meetings or whenever needed. I wonder if he still does this?

 

We never know how much coaches or players read the papers but I suspect ownership reads everything so they have a finger on the pulse of their fans and city. For sure guys like Serge Savard keep up with whats being reported, so I would be very surprised if Geoff Molson isn't hearing some of what we're saying here, that maybe he needs to remove himself and make some dramatic changes and at least that may give him reason to think on it.

 

But I agree that it likely isn't going to happen now.  But once the draft is over and July 1 comes and goes, if there isn't anything resembling some hope or a new direction but just more of the same tinkering of the bottom 6...who knows. We've been surprised before and it didn't take Geoff M too long on the job to remove Pierre Gauthier and make a change. But PG wasn't Molson's GM of choice so that may have been an easier decision. 

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zumpano21    40

I think a lot of blame unjustly is headed towards MB when he's the centrepiece of a multi-headed monster.

 

I never see the names of Dudley, Mellanby, Carriere, Lapointe getting lambasted routinely. This is partly understandable as they work behind the scenes but Dudley surely deserves a lot of criticism for recent outcomes.

 

Unless we can get Tavares and Radulov for next season (and do the regular shuffling of our b-type players which MB is so fond of) then we should burn it down and start fresh.

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hab29RETIRED    163
12 minutes ago, zumpano21 said:

I think a lot of blame unjustly is headed towards MB when he's the centrepiece of a multi-headed monster.

 

I never see the names of Dudley, Mellanby, Carriere, Lapointe getting lambasted routinely. This is partly understandable as they work behind the scenes but Dudley surely deserves a lot of criticism for recent outcomes.

 

Unless we can get Tavares and Radulov for next season (and do the regular shuffling of our b-type players which MB is so fond of) then we should burn it down and start fresh.

They all work for MB.  The biggest problem with the organization is that MB has hired his childhood or playing day buddies and haven't held them accountable for anything.  So a the end of the day the buck stops with him.  Hi here is no way lefebve or daigneult should have a job. 

 

He should have fired MT long before he did.  If Dudley, mellanby, or lapointe are an issue they should have been canned.

 

on one hand you have Murray who fired his brother, on the other you have MB who doesn't want to break up his drinking foxhole buddies, no matter what impact I had on the good of the franchise.

 

MB hasn't shown he is capable of turning things around, he's already wasted enough years of price, maxpac' prime and tead d away the best position player this team has had in decades.

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13 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

They all work for MB.  The biggest problem with the organization is that MB has hired his childhood or playing day buddies and haven't held them accountable for anything.  So a the end of the day the buck stops with him.  Hi here is no way lefebve or daigneult should have a job. 

 

He should have fired MT long before he did.  If Dudley, mellanby, or lapointe are an issue they should have been canned.

 

on one hand you have Murray who fired his brother, on the other you have MB who doesn't want to break up his drinking foxhole buddies, no matter what impact I had on the good of the franchise.

 

MB hasn't shown he is capable of turning things around, he's already wasted enough years of price, maxpac' prime and tead d away the best position player this team has had in decades.

 

A lot of typos, but I'm with you in spirit, good sir

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hab29RETIRED    163
39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

A lot of typos, but I'm with you in spirit, good sir

Problem with responding on the iPhone with its useless auto-correct 

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Problem with responding on the iPhone with its useless auto-correct 

 

Yeah, I have the same issue on my tablet. Ended up disabling auto-correct, but still get typos due to these keypads

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For the most part I feel like we are so close to being true contenders, just a couple of pieces away.  I also wonder if we will ever get the couple of pieces.

 

There are other times that I think we are on the cusp of disaster and require a complete rebuild. However I don't believe this to be true right now. In 3-5 years we will need a complete rebuild.

 

Much has been said about management and coaching, specifically regarding player development. The real concern that other than Sergachev we don't have a whole lot to look forward to. Poor drafting? Poor development? Where is Hudon? Where is the kid that is supposed to ignite our offense? Is he a bust? Is he not being developed correctly?

 

How can a 30 goal Galchenyuk be flip flopped all over the place the season after (to disastrous results)? How can that 30 goal scorer be placed on the 4th line in the playoffs when we can't score? Is he that much of a defensive liability that it out weighs everything else?

 

If I were Molson, I would hire a President with the mandate to fire every single coaching/management position (other than CJ, that's up to the new GM) in the organization. From scouts to junior to MB. We have absolutely nothing of note in development and we are looking at a very short window to win now. It seems like even if we do win now we are looking at a total rebuild in the near future. Who will replace our aging vets?

 

MB has said many times that we need to build through the draft. Who do we have? Clearly we have a problem! Can you not see this MB? Can you not see this Molson?

 

 

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I might be the only person on the internet constantly asking what Scott Mellanby does and why he deserved a promotion to assistant general manager.

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hab29RETIRED    163
43 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I might be the only person on the internet constantly asking what Scott Mellanby does and why he deserved a promotion to assistant general manager.

Because he's another one of MB's foxhole buddies.

 

 

 

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Of course but what does he do? What has he done? If Geoff Molson interviewed him on what his job entails, what would he say? 

 

Marty Lapointe doesn't get focused on because he basically came in with Bergevin so everything that's his responsibility is also Marc's. No point wasting extra energy. When Bergevin is fired Lapointe will be close behind.

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Stogey24    237
36 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Because he's another one of MB's foxhole buddies.

 

 

 

It's so true though. It's all of Beregvin's buddies in management and hockey ops. 

 

He's close to these guys, so he has trouble firing them.

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PMAC    81

Uh, we finished first in the division and lost a close fought series to team that could go to the division final and you guys want to fire everyone and revamp the team? Have any of you noticed how long teams tend to suck when they don't have stable management? Bergevin has his faults-- and player development is among them-- but this is a team that is a couple of pieces from a long cup run. You don't raze that kind of foundation, you build on it. 

I thought I was upset after the Rangers series but many of you are so angry I think you are still venting about the PK trade. 

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Commandant    607
12 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Of course but what does he do? What has he done? If Geoff Molson interviewed him on what his job entails, what would he say? 

 

Marty Lapointe doesn't get focused on because he basically came in with Bergevin so everything that's his responsibility is also Marc's. No point wasting extra energy. When Bergevin is fired Lapointe will be close behind.

 

Its impossible to know what duties go to which assistant GM.  Not many teams tell you this stuff.  

 

The reality is, that at the end of the day MB is the boss.  If what is happening is good, he gets the credit and if what is happening is bad, he gets the blame.  The AGMs do their jobs outside of public view for the most part... with the occassional leak from an insider about it, but even those are rare. 

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5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Its impossible to know what duties go to which assistant GM.  Not many teams tell you this stuff.  

 

That's funny. We all know of all the duties of Rick Dudley and any AGM that handles the AHL team. But Mellanby? In a market like Montreal? Not a single thing written on what he does. The most I've read is when he's been scouting players. When his name was tossed in for GM of Vegas last year even they had trouble coming up with his duties. All he's done is move up by bouncing around organizations and Montreal moved him all the way up to AGM. He must have some skill in something right?

 

Maybe I'm too harsh on him but I centre on Scott because he's a prime example of how Montreal looks like a country club for former hockey players now instead of a front office of the best minds in hockey.

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Chris    2

They are not close to being contenders. Price goes down, bottom 5 team period. They have know one and i mean know one who steps up in the playoffs. 

 

There talent pool is slim as far as prospects, Hudon may provide offense, but who knows. They have a few real good d prospects. 

 

They have all 3rd and 4th line centers, drafting has been middle of the pack at best. IMO not good enough, 

 

They have a new coach who plays a totally different style than that most of the current roster doesn;t fit, 

 

So yea, major changes need to happen if they want to be real contenders, need an upgrade in talent, speed, centers, youth and yes, size and toughness, 

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ehjay    15
58 minutes ago, PMAC said:

Uh, we finished first in the division and lost a close fought series to team that could go to the division final and you guys want to fire everyone and revamp the team? Have any of you noticed how long teams tend to suck when they don't have stable management? Bergevin has his faults-- and player development is among them-- but this is a team that is a couple of pieces from a long cup run. You don't raze that kind of foundation, you build on it. 

I thought I was upset after the Rangers series but many of you are so angry I think you are still venting about the PK trade. 

 

You might be right about the venting part, well for me anyway :) Still that Rags loss is a bitter pill, no? I didn't/don't care about where we end up in season, as long as we make the playoffs. What I want in season is all that flash in pan hockey you don't see really in the playoffs and the loss of PK took that away (from me), I think. Now a playoff loss to an Original 6 because of lack of scoring, when this Team was wanted/needed to do a long spring run kinda bring back the burn of that trade, well to me anyway. :/ 

I don't think MB should go yet. I think he needs to change his view about some things. Figure a way to work outside of his comfort zone a bit More. Like take a collections/sales training or have a look at different aspects of His board longer then he does now.   I hope, wish and certainly pray that can help the many aspects listed in previous post that you may agree are Real issue(s) on this Great Team. I hope this post bring more positivism from my part  :)   

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Commandant    607
1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

 

That's funny. We all know of all the duties of Rick Dudley and any AGM that handles the AHL team. But Mellanby? In a market like Montreal? Not a single thing written on what he does. The most I've read is when he's been scouting players. When his name was tossed in for GM of Vegas last year even they had trouble coming up with his duties. All he's done is move up by bouncing around organizations and Montreal moved him all the way up to AGM. He must have some skill in something right?

 

Maybe I'm too harsh on him but I centre on Scott because he's a prime example of how Montreal looks like a country club for former hockey players now instead of a front office of the best minds in hockey.

 

Dudley doesn't handle the AHL team.  Bergevin does.  Which goes to show we know little of what Dudley is doing too. 

 

Quick....

What does Bill Guerin do for Pittsburgh? What is his role and how is it different than Jason Botterill?

What does Ron Fishman do for Washington?

What are Randy Lee and Daniel Alfreddson's responsibilities in Ottawa?

What is Chris Drury's job with the Rangers?

Thats the four teams alive in the East.  What is the job description and duties of these guys and how is it different from Mellanby?

 

Yeah we have no clue what Mellanby does, but that applies for most AGMs. 

 

Of all those guys, Jason Botterill is the one we know the most about? Why, cause he is about to get the Buffalo job. 

 

No one writes about what these AGMs do, unless they are about to be imminently hired by another organization.  There is just no interest in the media on a story about Scott Mellanby's day to day duties. 

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kaos    7

The #1 need for this team is scoring. They need to find it this summer. Galchenyuk and Radulov contract up this summer, Price contract done after this year, Pacioretty comes up in a couple years which boils down to this team window to win being this year and next due to increasing salaries.

This team was good this year, but not good enough to win it all, with the biggest problem being goals for.

 

So what's the point of continuing down this path if you can't find a way to bring in scoring help?  Scoring doesn't exist on the farm, and it's not available at free agency. It's gonna have to be traded for. 

 

 

 

 

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Commandant    607

There is scoring in free agency, but its mainly on the wings. 

 

Some could be a bit of a help, but solving the centre issue has to be the priority. 

 

 

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habs rule    392
21 minutes ago, Commandant said:

There is scoring in free agency, but its mainly on the wings. 

 

Some could be a bit of a help, but solving the centre issue has to be the priority. 

 

 

But but it is too hard, and there are no #1 centers available. :cry_smile:

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30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

There is scoring in free agency, but its mainly on the wings. 

 

Some could be a bit of a help, but solving the centre issue has to be the priority. 

 

 

 

MB has commented on the need for a centre and he has commented on how hard it is to get one yet he did a full pass on Shipachyov.

 

I strongly fear that he has given up on acquiring a centre and has plans to strengthen other areas of our team. I hope he surprises me but I don't think he will.

 

I see us hitting next season with maybe a UFA winger and that's it.

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Trizzak    425
4 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

MB has commented on the need for a centre and he has commented on how hard it is to get one yet he did a full pass on Shipachyov.

 

I strongly fear that he has given up on acquiring a centre and has plans to strengthen other areas of our team. I hope he surprises me but I don't think he will.

 

I see us hitting next season with maybe a UFA winger and that's it.

 

He basically said as much in his end-of-season press conference, saying some teams have won the Stanley Cup without a 1st line centre. 

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