Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
titanfan

2017-18 lineup could be?

Recommended Posts

titanfan    1

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov

Byron - Sam Gagner - Danault

Lehkonen - Shaw - Gallagher

King - Flynn/Mitchell - Martinson

 

Weber - Kevin Shattenkirk

Petry - Markov

Jakub Jerabek - Benn

 

Price

Montoya

 

Trade a second round pick and Plekanec to Vegas so they take Emelin.  

 

Sign:

Price at $10

Radulov at $6

Galchenyuk at $3.5

Gagner at $2.5

Shattenkirk at $6

Markov at $4.5

 

Offer Beaulieu and Nesterov $2 (combined)

 

We are at $69 for the cap, with a little room.

 

If we want we could offer Vanek for $2.5 (put him on the third line) and still have cap room.

 

Let Galchenyuk have a year at Centre, give him a real chance to prove himself.  If it works great.  If it doesn't - move on.  Maybe make a move at the deadline if he hasn't...

 

A strong blueline means the puck is in the other zone more than it is ours.  A strong defence then lets the offensive guys play more offence, and guys like Galcehnyuk can worry less about defence and do what they do best.

 

Thoughts? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stogey24    233

10 bucks ain't bad for price 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    606

Prices contract wouldnt start til 2018-19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gagner isn't a bad idea for C. A half-decently productive playmaking C. IF the team finally comes to its senses and stops trying to turn Galy into Doug Jarvis, the FW configuration is at least serviceable. What worries me about Gagner is thought that we'd have to give him term. He's not a convincing longer-term option. I think he may also cost more than 2.5.

 

Shattenkirk on D would be great, but has a faint whiff of pie-in-the-sky.

 

The best thing about that roster is that Pleks and Emelin are no longer on it. That would show a management group able to do a bit of forward thinking for once.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stogey24    233

Gagner already said he loves the group in Columbus and wants to be back there. I don't see him going anywhere

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Habsfan1989    4

I have a bad feeling about the team we could put out next year.

 

 

what if radulov doesn't resign? And we lose bryon to Vegas.

 

thats a lot of scoring out of our lineup 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    606

Gagner = David Desharnais 2.0. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JoeLassister    272
15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Gagner = David Desharnais 2.0. 

Well... at least it would be 2.0.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    606
1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Well... at least it would be 2.0.

 

The upgrade is like 2 inches in height, not much else. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dlbalr    654
7 hours ago, titanfan said:

Sign:

Price at $10

Radulov at $6

Galchenyuk at $3.5

Gagner at $2.5

Shattenkirk at $6

Markov at $4.5

 

Offer Beaulieu and Nesterov $2 (combined)

 

Thoughts? 

 

I think you're well under on a couple of these.  Galchenyuk's QO is $3.2 million, he's not taking a $300,000 raise.  His new deal is going to be in the $6 million range (unless it's a one year deal in the mid-4's).  As for Beaulieu/Nesterov at $2 million combined, Beaulieu's deal will surpass that easily on his own.  I haven't looked at the numbers too closely yet to project him out but I imagine a new deal for him will start with a 3.  Nesterov will come cheap but honestly I'm not sure he's even qualified.  (I suspect they're hoping he signs overseas soon so they can qualify him and hold his rights as an RFA.)

 

Gagner is a weird case.  He was great early on and then fell off a cliff in the second half.  He also spent a lot of time on the wing thanks to defensive issues (and likely a below average faceoff rate).  The year before that he was almost exclusively a winger.  I'm not sure he's really a solution if you're looking at him as a centre.

 

I think you're a bit low on Shattenkirk (he already turned down $6 million per from TB in sign-and-trade talks and their tax situation is a lot better than Montreal's).  I don't think he really fits in either as they already have Weber/Petry on that side.  Can the Habs really afford a third pairing blueliner making at least $5.5 million?  Or do they want to pay someone that much to play on his wrong side and somewhat negate his effectiveness?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
titanfan    1

Galchenyuk is an RFA.  He's not getting 6, unless Montreal signs him long term.  I don't think he has proven he is worth it yet.  Qualifying offer, then he gets what he is worth next year.  It a gamble for the Habs but well worth it if it lets the team add to the lineup this year.

 

As for Beaulieu, I am willing to lose him if he wants more than $1.5 at this point.

 

Gagner is a big question mark...but could be a pleasant surprise.  Mind you, Montreal hasn't had much luck with this type of player.

 

I don't think Shattenkirk gets more than Weber.  But even if it takes a little more, we have some room (A little).

 

And I believe Weber, Shattenkirk, Petry and Markov work as a top 4.  I believe Petry has played both sides.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hab29RETIRED    164
3 hours ago, titanfan said:

Galchenyuk is an RFA.  He's not getting 6, unless Montreal signs him long term.  I don't think he has proven he is worth it yet.  Qualifying offer, then he gets what he is worth next year.  It a gamble for the Habs but well worth it if it lets the team add to the lineup this year.

 

As for Beaulieu, I am willing to lose him if he wants more than $1.5 at this point.

 

Gagner is a big question mark...but could be a pleasant surprise.  Mind you, Montreal hasn't had much luck with this type of player.

 

I don't think Shattenkirk gets more than Weber.  But even if it takes a little more, we have some room (A little).

 

And I believe Weber, Shattenkirk, Petry and Markov work as a top 4.  I believe Petry has played both sides.

 

 

If I'm MB and can sign galchenyuk for 8 years at $6m, I get him to sign before he has a chance to reconsider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dlbalr    654
3 hours ago, titanfan said:

Galchenyuk is an RFA.  He's not getting 6, unless Montreal signs him long term.  I don't think he has proven he is worth it yet.  Qualifying offer, then he gets what he is worth next year.  It a gamble for the Habs but well worth it if it lets the team add to the lineup this year.

 

As for Beaulieu, I am willing to lose him if he wants more than $1.5 at this point.

 

 

Even on a one year deal, Galchenyuk gets a minimum of something starting with a 4, if not higher.  He's not going to choose to take close to his qualifying offer.  He has arbitration rights and there are plenty of higher comparables out there to use that will yield a higher award than the 3.5 you suggested so he'd go that route before just accepting a $300k raise.  He's a year past getting 30 goals, those players aren't getting $3.5 million with arbitration eligibility.

 

I'm not a huge Beaulieu fan but he's easily getting double that (unless he takes a one year deal, maybe then it's high 2's).  He had 28 points and fits the mobile style that the league is trending towards.  He also played #4 minutes and players that have stats of top-four blueliners (whether or not we agree that he is one) will do better than that in arbitration and he also has that eligibility.

 

35 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If I'm MB and can sign galchenyuk for 8 years at $6m, I get him to sign before he has a chance to reconsider.

 

I'm sure Bergevin would like to do that.  I don't see why Galchenyuk would though.  I think 5 or 6 years in that money range could be doable but max term (and 6 UFA years) will up the AAV past that for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    606
3 hours ago, titanfan said:

Galchenyuk is an RFA.  He's not getting 6, unless Montreal signs him long term.  I don't think he has proven he is worth it yet.  Qualifying offer, then he gets what he is worth next year.  It a gamble for the Habs but well worth it if it lets the team add to the lineup this year.

 

As for Beaulieu, I am willing to lose him if he wants more than $1.5 at this point.

 

Gagner is a big question mark...but could be a pleasant surprise.  Mind you, Montreal hasn't had much luck with this type of player.

 

I don't think Shattenkirk gets more than Weber.  But even if it takes a little more, we have some room (A little).

 

And I believe Weber, Shattenkirk, Petry and Markov work as a top 4.  I believe Petry has played both sides.

 

 

 

Galchenyuk has arbitration rights.  His comparables are 5-6.   He could very well get 6 just by forcing the habs into arbitration. 

 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2017/6/3/15724008/arbitration-eligibility-clouds-negotiations-with-alex-galchenyuk-nathan-beaulieu-contract-extension

and

 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2017/6/3/15724008/arbitration-eligibility-clouds-negotiations-with-alex-galchenyuk-nathan-beaulieu-contract-extension

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BCHabnut    151

Short term Chucky has not earned 6 mill. Imo. 3 for  nate seems insane. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dlbalr    654
6 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

3 for  nate seems insane. 

 

The numbers point to Beaulieu as a top four guy and arbitration awards are basically based off the numbers.  Top four guys don't often come in below that even though we are talking an RFA year here.  This isn't his bridge deal where he'll come in a bit cheaper potentially - that's done now and after being on what was a pretty team-friendly contract before, I think he'll push to get paid (assuming he's still around, of course).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
titanfan    1

See that's the thing.  I don't think we need Beaulieu.  There are plenty of other D available who can offer what he has given the Habs so far.  Would we really miss him?  Look how long we hung on to Desharnais.  Will we ver miss him?  We aren't talking a future Rangers captain here, we are talking Beaulieu.  If he walks a young gun gets more playing time.  If you look above, I don't even have him cracking our top 6.  Of course, I am going after another top pairing D (in this case Shattenkirk), which moves everyone but Weber down a notch.

 

I know everyone goes on and on about our need for a Top Line Centre, and I get it.  But I really believe if we build from the net out we will discover we are stronger up front than we think.  And building from the net out, doesn't mean the goaltender.  It means getting the puck out of your zone as fast as you can and letting your forwards work their magic in the other end.  If you are stuck in your zone all night then your goalie hasn't to stand on his head all the time.  

 

Think Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, etc.   LaFleur and Shutt had a field day.  Pierre Larouche scored 50 goals. Dryden made the big saves, but the D transitioned the puck up ice so fast, and kept it there, that other teams didn't have a chance.

 

Weber is a great D, but he needs another guy on his pairing.  Markov is still the smartest guy on the ice but he is slowing down.  Petry plays best when he doesn't have to be THE GUY.  Sure, Emelin can hit, and make guys uncomfortable in front of our net - but he isn't going to get the puck out of our zone.  And, I'd rather not have to worry about guys in front of OUR net, because the puck is in the other team's zone! 

 

Is Shattenkirk the guy - maybe, maybe not, but he is an option.

 

Is Gagner the guy, probably not, but then again let him play 70% of the time in the offensive zone and we might just be pleasantly surprised.

 

The thing is, great team's built on defence first are best when they are getting the puck up ice rather than scrambling around in their own zone.

 

Just think how great a Centre Galnchenyuk could be if he didn't have to worry about playing defence in his own zone.  It worked for LaFleur and Richer...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    606

Weber is a RHD who has never played on the Left Side. 

Petry is a RHD who has played less than 5 career games on the Left Side

 

Shattenkirk is a RHD who has never played on the Left side. 

 

 

You can't just take a person and play him out of position and assume you are getting the same player.  People who have looked at D on their off side, see that on average they lose about 5% effectiveness in possession numbers.  They also found that LHD moving to the right is easier than RHD moving left.  This is probably because there are more LHD than RHD, so growing up they may have gotten experience on their off-side, where the RHD don't. 

 

 

 

Add to this the fact that Shattenkirk is heavily, heavily, heavily rumored to go play close to home with one of the New York teams.  He likely isn't even considering Montreal.  Its a pipe dream.  Its like when Vanek wanted to go to Minnesota, cause his wife, no one else stood a chance.  Same thing here. Shattenkirk has already turned down big money in Tampa.  He's not coming to Montreal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Weber is a RHD who has never played on the Left Side. 

Petry is a RHD who has played less than 5 career games on the Left Side

 

Shattenkirk is a RHD who has never played on the Left side. 

 

 

You can't just take a person and play him out of position and assume you are getting the same player.  People who have looked at D on their off side, see that on average they lose about 5% effectiveness in possession numbers.  They also found that LHD moving to the right is easier than RHD moving left.  This is probably because there are more LHD than RHD, so growing up they may have gotten experience on their off-side, where the RHD don't. 

 

 

 

Add to this the fact that Shattenkirk is heavily, heavily, heavily rumored to go play close to home with one of the New York teams.  He likely isn't even considering Montreal.  Its a pipe dream.  Its like when Vanek wanted to go to Minnesota, cause his wife, no one else stood a chance.  Same thing here. Shattenkirk has already turned down big money in Tampa.  He's not coming to Montreal. 

 

The RD thing settles it. No Shattenkirk. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
titanfan    1

Not looking for a fight, just looking at options (do we want to win or not?  Or are we happy to say - oh well it is the best that we can do) but if you took the time to read my post, I clearly said - Maybe Shattenkirk is the guy, maybe he isn't - what we need is a top pairing D to play with Webber.  

 

And we have 6 or 7 million a season to find one if we play our cards right.  

 

(And yes, still sign Carey to 10mil a season.  And have $$ for Galchenyuk.  2018-19 might be a little tight, but the cap won't stay flat three years in a row.  And Markov will be retired by 2019-20.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    606

No one is fighting... just discussing.  Discussing doesn't mean we have to agree.... we can disagree without it being a "fight".

A message board would be pretty boring if we all agreed. 

 

That said, yes.... We need someone to play with Weber.

 

But if you have 6 or 7 million to spend, I use that to be sure that Philip Danault is not the number 1 centre. 

 

I have Carey Price in net, I think its much easier for Price to cover up a hole on the blueline than it is for Price to score goals. 

 

Add to that the fact that Sergachev will likely be in the NHL next year.  (no not as a top pair guy).  So while he doesn't fill the hole right away, he will fill that hole soon. 

 

There is nothing on the horizon for a top 6 centre. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, titanfan said:

Not looking for a fight, just looking at options (do we want to win or not?  Or are we happy to say - oh well it is the best that we can do) but if you took the time to read my post, I clearly said - Maybe Shattenkirk is the guy, maybe he isn't - what we need is a top pairing D to play with Webber.  

 

And we have 6 or 7 million a season to find one if we play our cards right.  

 

(And yes, still sign Carey to 10mil a season.  And have $$ for Galchenyuk.  2018-19 might be a little tight, but the cap won't stay flat three years in a row.  And Markov will be retired by 2019-20.)

 

You are dead right that the D is alarmingly fragile for a team with a dubious FW corps. It needs an upgrade. But the LD/ RD thing is really important. What we need is a top-4 puck-moving LD - sort of a left-shooting Petry. That should be Beaulieu, but of course he is another case of a young guy the Habs just couldn't 'get through to' (which is of course all his fault, since management never takes responsibility for anything). The point is, suggestions for upgrading the D need to focus on LD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
titanfan    1

Cap $$$

 

Pacioretty - $5

Galchenyuk - $3.5

Radulov - $6

 

Byron - $1.2

Gagner - $2.5

Danualt - $.95

 

Lehkonen - $.925

Shaw - $5

Gallagher - $2.75

 

King - $.925

Flynn - $1

Martinson - $.675 

 

Mitchell - $1.3

 

Weber - $6

Shattenkirk (or someone like him) - $6

 

Petry - $6

Markov - $4.5

 

Jeraluk - $.925

Benn - $1.1

 

Beaulieu - $1.25

Nesterov - $.75

 

Price - $10

Montoya - $1

 

Total = $69.25  (Cap expected to remain at $72)

 

(Left off the list - Emelin (Vegas), Plekanec (Vegas), Davidson, Sergachev)

 

Juggle the number a bit if you want, maybe Galy gets $4.5 but Price ends up with $9.5) - but they work.

 

For discussions sake, who could we land as a top pairing D if Shattenkirk ISN'T the guy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×