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Commandant

Jonathan Drouin is a Hab. Mikhail Sergachev is not. 2018 conditional picks exchanged.

249 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Oh, I'm with you. It was an idiotic move and will always be an idiotic move, completely, unforgivably dumb. But I'm talking about the francophone fan-base. I don't think French fans are dumb by any means - they know the Subban trade was asinine, and will not suddenly forget about that because Drouin is here. Nevertheless, Drouin is a PR coup and, if he produces, will be an instant fan favourite going forward because he's French. Like I say, it helps staunch the bleeding from a PR standpoint.

Drouin will be absolute hero in Montreal, if he can pile up the points.

 

At the same time, Habs fan will have their guillotine ready, when that first slump hits 

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46 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

If there is no deal in place with Vegas to take Plekanec's 6M$,  I'll jump on the fire MB train.

 

I think the deal that it would take to get Vegas to draft Plekanec would be what would get you on the fire MB train. It won't be cheap. 

 

Vegas will have no problem reaching the salary cap floor, and will be looking for many players with potential on cheap contracts. Hudon, De La Rose, Benn, Davidson... all more attractive than 'Plekanec and a 2nd rounder' that everyone keeps tossing around here, especially when you know Montreal will be desperately making the same offer after the Expansion Draft anyway. Why take 2 assets when Vegas can squeeze for more later?

 

Unless they reeeeeeally want Plekanec as a reclamation project, I think a lot of you are going to be disappointed come draft day.

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23 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

 

I think the deal that it would take to get Vegas to draft Plekanec would be what would get you on the fire MB train. It won't be cheap. 

 

Vegas will have no problem reaching the salary cap floor, and will be looking for many players with potential on cheap contracts. Hudon, De La Rose, Benn, Davidson... all more attractive than 'Plekanec and a 2nd rounder' that everyone keeps tossing around here, especially when you know Montreal will be desperately making the same offer after the Expansion Draft anyway. Why take 2 assets when Vegas can squeeze for more later?

 

Unless they reeeeeeally want Plekanec as a reclamation project, I think a lot of you are going to be disappointed come draft day.

 

Plekanec + 2nd rounder is Much more valuable than a Hudon or De La Rose IMO..... If you traded Hudon tomorrow, the best you could do is a second rounder IMO.

 

Plekanec on the other hand is on an expiring contract.   The big problem in his value is the cost of that contract. 

 

Vegas can use him til the Deadline, putting him on the PP and giving him offensive minutes... thus eating 75% of the deal. 

They can then trade him at the deadline and retain salary. 

 

Plekanec as a trade deadline rental, he has value similar to Hanzal did this year as a rental, especially if he scores some points cause Vegas is force feeding him those offensive minutes before the deadlin. 

 

 

So you get Montreal's second this year.... plus likely picks and prospects at the deadline. 

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56 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

 

I think the deal that it would take to get Vegas to draft Plekanec would be what would get you on the fire MB train. It won't be cheap. 

 

Vegas will have no problem reaching the salary cap floor, and will be looking for many players with potential on cheap contracts. Hudon, De La Rose, Benn, Davidson... all more attractive than 'Plekanec and a 2nd rounder' that everyone keeps tossing around here, especially when you know Montreal will be desperately making the same offer after the Expansion Draft anyway. Why take 2 assets when Vegas can squeeze for more later?

 

Unless they reeeeeeally want Plekanec as a reclamation project, I think a lot of you are going to be disappointed come draft day.

They may simply want Plekanec, being in last year of contract, for what they can get for him come trade deadline day, picks or prospect. Plekanec is in Vegas by numerous different mock drafts and maybe would take Bergevin adding a pick to add to get it done?

 

I see Commandant already posted similar stuff.

Edited by DON
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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Plekanec + 2nd rounder is Much more valuable than a Hudon or De La Rose IMO..... If you traded Hudon tomorrow, the best you could do is a second rounder IMO.

 

Plekanec on the other hand is on an expiring contract.   The big problem in his value is the cost of that contract. 

 

Vegas can use him til the Deadline, putting him on the PP and giving him offensive minutes... thus eating 75% of the deal. 

They can then trade him at the deadline and retain salary. 

 

Plekanec as a trade deadline rental, he has value similar to Hanzal did this year as a rental, especially if he scores some points cause Vegas is force feeding him those offensive minutes before the deadlin. 

 

 

So you get Montreal's second this year.... plus likely picks and prospects at the deadline. 

 

All of what you said stays true after the expansion draft is over, so where is the incentive for Vegas to not maximize their assets on this? Do you honestly believe Bergevin has the leverage to reduce a salary dump trade offer after the draft? There are maybe 3 to 4 teams that will be interested in taking on bad contracts for a fee, and a few more teams looking to dump them... Bergevin has no bargaining power here.

 

I just see way too many Habs fans assuming it's a slam dunk that Pleks gets picked. That works out great for Montreal, but does it work out best for Vegas? I don't think so.

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How many other teams are offering Vegas similar things though? They have a large pool to select from and Plekanec at 6 million may not be the most attractive of those options. This type of thing is new to me but it seems as though a lot of fans are looking at it from a Habs-centric point of view.

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Also, any trade offer for selecting Plekanec won't be good enough if Vegas gets to negotiate and sign Radulov this weekend.

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5 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

How many other teams are offering Vegas similar things though? They have a large pool to select from and Plekanec at 6 million may not be the most attractive of those options. This type of thing is new to me but it seems as though a lot of fans are looking at it from a Habs-centric point of view.

Non Habfans have Plekanec in Vegas as well (Gallant-Plekanec relationship also noted as a factor).

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Drouin is a left winger, but he has experience with Center. If Galchenyuk can't handle center duties, maybe he can.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

 I don't think French fans are dumb by any means - they know the Subban trade was asinine, and will not suddenly forget about that because Drouin is here. Nevertheless, Drouin is a PR coup and, if he produces, will be an instant fan favourite going forward because he's French. Like I say, it helps staunch the bleeding from a PR standpoint.

 

I hope you don't seriously think that every french fan thinks that the Subban trade was asinine 

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"Drouin's 5-on-5 production to this point in his NHL career is also concerning. His 27 even-strength points were tied for 125th among forwards who played at least 73 games. He was tied for 165th among forwards in 5-on-5 points per 60 minutes (1.44; minimum 750 minutes played) according to stats.hockeyanalysis.com. That's the same rate as forwards Matt Duchene (in a down season), Nick Foligno and Chris Kunitz"

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46 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

I hope you don't seriously think that every french fan thinks that the Subban trade was asinine 

 

I'm an English fan and I don't think the trade was asinine. I think it favored Nashville, slightly, due to the three year age gap, but that Weber is a better D-Man than Subban right now. He won't be in 3 more years...

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I think with this trade IF the Habs can get a #1C (or even a Real #2c) and still find a way to keep Chucky... IF they keep playing him wing then they should put him on Right Wing kinda like Ovi... I like the way Chucky float in to the slot from the right to pull a shoot... Might calm some ppl who see Chucks as a loss... Any thoughts? 

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2 hours ago, illWill said:

 

I hope you don't seriously think that every french fan thinks that the Subban trade was asinine 

I can back that statement.


Among my circle of friends,  I'd say that about 50% of them despite the trade (including me).

20 % are  meh.

A good 30% absolutely love the trade.  A good chunk of them dislike PK Subban to begin with. They fully agree that he was a distracton and trading him was the thing to do.  They put PK in the same category as Chad Ochocinco.

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5 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

  They put PK in the same category as Chad Ochocinco.

You just blew Cucumber's mind with that blasphemy!

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3 hours ago, Jeff Price (no relation) said:

 

I'm an English fan and I don't think the trade was asinine. I think it favored Nashville, slightly, due to the three year age gap, but that Weber is a better D-Man than Subban right now. He won't be in 3 more years...

 

Nah. PK is much, much more dynamic than Weber, and we saw his shutdown skills in the playoffs this year. The problem is the paradigm of hockey fans, and especially the Canuck Old Boys Network. Weber fits their archetype for what a defenseman should be. PK blows him out of the water in every aspect of the game besides PPGs. 

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2 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

I can back that statement.


Among my circle of friends,  I'd say that about 50% of them despite the trade (including me).

20 % are  meh.

A good 30% absolutely love the trade.  A good chunk of them dislike PK Subban to begin with. They fully agree that he was a distracton and trading him was the thing to do.  They put PK in the same category as Chad Ochocinco.

 

PK is about PK, no doubt about it. But his marketing efforts wouldn't be an issue in any other sports. But they are, and he still persists, so there's that.

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1 hour ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

Nah. PK is much, much more dynamic than Weber, and we saw his shutdown skills in the playoffs this year. The problem is the paradigm of hockey fans, and especially the Canuck Old Boys Network. Weber fits their archetype for what a defenseman should be. PK blows him out of the water in every aspect of the game besides PPGs. 

If Weber would have been on the Predators this season, he would have been their leader on the back end throughout the playoffs. There's no doubt about it in my mind. Before I hear comments about leadership, I just mean that the team would have relied on him on the back end. Subban shut down players this post season great but I watched the games with an open mind and I wouldn't really have called him their leader. From what I saw, Ellis really took the bull by the horns this season in the playoffs, admittedly not as much in the final.

 

Call it whatever it is but they are different players and there's not necessarily anything wrong with the old boy's mentality as long as Canada keeps winning championships. Weber is currently a great player to build a team around and we are lacking those types of players. Pick on everyone else but the slags on Weber are unwarranted.

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58 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

If Weber would have been on the Predators this season, he would have been their leader on the back end throughout the playoffs. There's no doubt about it in my mind. Before I hear comments about leadership, I just mean that the team would have relied on him on the back end. Subban shut down players this post season great but I watched the games with an open mind and I wouldn't really have called him their leader. From what I saw, Ellis really took the bull by the horns this season in the playoffs, admittedly not as much in the final.

 

Call it whatever it is but they are different players and there's not necessarily anything wrong with the old boy's mentality as long as Canada keeps winning championships. Weber is currently a great player to build a team around and we are lacking those types of players. Pick on everyone else but the slags on Weber are unwarranted.

Fact, Weber was there with the same team and they didn't get out of the  2nd round.  Fact,  Ellis took weber's spit and did better in a he playoffs.  Fact, Ellis wouldn't have played with Josi with Weber there.

 

Fact, weber was never able to shutdown the hawks or the ducks historically, so what makes you think he was going to do it this year?

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Can we please keep the Weber-Subban trade talk in the Weber-Subban trade thread?  Let's keep this on-topic.

 

 

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Sorry don't mean to derail thread

Edited by Scott462
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9 hours ago, Jeff Price (no relation) said:

Drouin is a left winger, but he has experience with Center. If Galchenyuk can't handle center duties, maybe he can.

I've been reading a lot of TBL writers and this deal has me a bit concerned.

 

If drouin is tried at centre, this deal doesn't make much sense.  One of the knocks on drouin is that he is so lost in his own end that it's questionable he knows where it is.  Isn't that the same knock against galchenyuk?  If we end up trading galchenyuk for a bottom 4 pairing dman, and replacing him with drouin, I'm going to be pretty pissed off about another lateral move that has us replace a young 30 goal scorer with a young 20 goal scorer and also had us sacrifice our top prospect, who by the consensus of most is supposed to be a top pairing dman.

 

we better not be moving galchenyuk unless he's part of a package that includes someone like McKinnon.

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9 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I've been reading don't TBL writers and this deal has me a bit concerned.

 

If drouin is tried at centre, this deal doesn't make much sense.  One of the knocks on drouin is that he is so lost in his own end that it's questionable he knows where it is.  Isn't that the same knock against galchenyuk?  If we end up trading galchenyuk for a bottom 4 pairing dman, and replacing him with drouin, I'm going to be pretty pissed off about another lateral move that has us replace a young 30 goal scorer with a young 20 goal scorer and also had us sacrifice our top prospect, who by the consensus of most is supposed to be a top pairing dman.

 

we better not be moving galchenyuk unless he's part of a package that includes someone like McKinnon.

 

Here's the thing. We trade Sergachev for Drouin. Drouin and Galchenyuk are similar players. So if we then trade Galy for whoever - say, Stepan, or a #3 d-man, or Duchene - then Drouin and Galy cancel each other out, and it will basically be as though we traded Sergachev for that player. And when you frame it that way, the trade becomes awful, unless you would have happily traded Sergachev for that guy. 

 

In short, I'm worried that MB will under-sell Galy, figuring we'll all be too excited by Drouin to realize what just happened. 

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Here's the thing. We trade Sergachev for Drouin. Drouin and Galchenyuk are similar players. So if we then trade Galy for whoever - say, Stepan, or a #3 d-man, or Duchene - then Drouin and Galy cancel each other out, and it will basically be as though we traded Sergachev for that player. And when you frame it that way, the trade becomes awful, unless you would have happily traded Sergachev for that guy. 

 

In short, I'm worried that MB will under-sell Galy, figuring we'll all be too excited by Drouin to realize what just happened. 

Yep.  I'm pretty sure we will sell galchenyuk low.  All the focus is on the French Canadian local boy coming home.  MB could probably make a galchenyuk for Brodin tstraight up type trade and  everyone will still be focused on getting the local boy.

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37 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I've been reading a lot of TBL writers and this deal has me a bit concerned.

 

If drouin is tried at centre, this deal doesn't make much sense.  One of the knocks on drouin is that he is so lost in his own end that it's questionable he knows where it is.  Isn't that the same knock against galchenyuk?  If we end up trading galchenyuk for a bottom 4 pairing dman, and replacing him with drouin, I'm going to be pretty pissed off about another lateral move that has us replace a young 30 goal scorer with a young 20 goal scorer and also had us sacrifice our top prospect, who by the consensus of most is supposed to be a top pairing dman.

 

we better not be moving galchenyuk unless he's part of a package that includes someone like McKinnon.

 

Drouin's advanced stats on the defensive side of the puck are considerably better than Galchenyuk. 

 

He is average to a small bit above average. 

 

Galchenyuk's defensive numbers are awful.

 

Their offensive numbers are about the same. 

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