Lovett's Magnatones

Signing
Alzner Signs With Montreal

111 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, Davehab said:

Signing Alzner means that the second pairing is set with him and Petry. This also means that petry is going to have to play more offensively from now on because he is the only guy in the top four that has a good transition game.   

 

That being said, Petry can be scary when he is relied on to carry too much of the offence.  I've always thought he makes mistakes when his ice time gets too high. 

 

Lets hope that there is something else coming on D. To help spread the puck possession around. 

 

Maybe we're figuring it wrong and Petry-Alzner are going to be the first pairing?

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I just cannot see how we're going to be better than last year 

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38 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Shattenkirk left term (and some money) on the table to sign with the Rangers, the team he wanted to join all along. 

Have Habs ever had any free agent willing to do that? 

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6 minutes ago, DON said:

Have Habs ever had any free agent willing to do that? 

No shit, eh

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6 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

No shit, eh

Seems Wings used to get 'popular destination' discount, Hawks do now and Rangers always seems to be high on many NHLers wish list, simply cause it is New York and original six playing in Madison Square Garden.

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50 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

I laud him for that goal. You have to think big. Sounds like Trump saying "we will win so much, we will get tired of all the winning." But he lost sight of what he had and didn't make the final steps when the team was close. I remember the early deadline days when he sat on his thumbs to create a teachable moment. I also remember complaining about DD, Plekanec, and Eller at center. Those guys (at the time) are better than what we have now by a mile.

 

I have this theory on GMs, that the further they get from their hire, the more they lose their vision and turn inward. When he signs players like Byron Froese that he scouted in Chicago, it makes it seem like he's stuck in the hey-day of the Western Conference. Then, the other theory I have, is when GMs take over a new team, they can spend up to two years fixing obvious mistakes. These moves go over with the fans, as they should, but in the long term, scouting/development/results become the yard stick. As Michel Therrien would say, MB vs a real deal GM like Peter Chiarelli, Ray Shero, or Stan Bowman is "mens against boys."

 

My fear is that the Habs have become just another crappy Canadian team. It's easy to envision a poor man's Vancouver where we try to win with Weber and Carey Price when they're a billion years old.

 

I totally agree with that goal, without denying how hard it is. To pull it off would have required superior drafting and development. Instead this regime has delivered the exact opposite, relying entirely upon the core it inherited from the previous, far superior Gainey regime; and you're dead right that the likeliest outcome is a lost decade, once this core starts to decline. 

 

You make a good point about GMs in general. They do tend to lose the big picture as season after season unfolds and they get ensnared in the day-to-day battles. You look at some of MB's decisions - trading PK in a snit over his self-promotion and because of an irrational blaming of the 2016 disaster on 'leadership;' sticking with Therrien when it was obvious to everyone that he should go; standing by Lefebvre no matter what; relentless faith in players and impressions from his Chicago glory days; firing the advanced stats guy who defended PK - you see a guy who is NOT thinking coldly about the big picture, not demanding excellence no matter what, but rather allowing personal responses to cloud his judgement. This organization will be gutted by the time he is fired.

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43 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I totally agree with that goal, without denying how hard it is. To pull it off would have required superior drafting and development. Instead this regime has delivered the exact opposite, relying entirely upon the core it inherited from the previous, far superior Gainey regime; and you're dead right that the likeliest outcome is a lost decade, once this core starts to decline. 

 

You make a good point about GMs in general. They do tend to lose the big picture as season after season unfolds and they get ensnared in the day-to-day battles. You look at some of MB's decisions - trading PK in a snit over his self-promotion and because of an irrational blaming of the 2016 disaster on 'leadership;' sticking with Therrien when it was obvious to everyone that he should go; standing by Lefebvre no matter what; relentless faith in players and impressions from his Chicago glory days; firing the advanced stats guy who defended PK - you see a guy who is NOT thinking coldly about the big picture, not demanding excellence no matter what, but rather allowing personal responses to cloud his judgement. This organization will be gutted by the time he is fired.

 

One thing I really give Bergevin credit for is that people are loyal to him. The organization never leaks, unless it's a big order of business like the Subban trade, contrasted with the slow drip of leaks during the Burke/Nonis era of the Leafs. Of course, if I was Sylvain "Job for life" Lefevbre, I would be loyal too.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

One thing I really give Bergevin credit for is that people are loyal to him. The organization never leaks, unless it's a big order of business like the Subban trade, contrasted with the slow drip of leaks during the Burke/Nonis era of the Leafs. Of course, if I was Sylvain "Job for life" Lefevbre, I would be loyal too.

 

Syl wasn't loyal. He held the Habs/Rocket up to look for an assistant coach job. The team sat around and waited for the irreplaceable services of Sylvain Lefevbre.

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6 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Syl wasn't loyal. He held the Habs/Rocket up to look for an assistant coach job. The team sat around and waited for the irreplaceable services of Sylvain Lefevbre.

That's is just a dumb post.

Which AHL coach wouldn't take a NHL job if can find one? "Oh no thanks, I will stay in minor leagues just out of loyalty, I don't need a higher paying and profile job."

But just gotta whine about something I suppose!

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The following excerpt sums up how out of touch MB is from the rest of the league:

 

One might be the loneliest number, but it was also the most popular on the first day of NHL free agency.

From Chris Kunitz and Patrick Sharp to Scott Hartnell and Mike Cammalleri, about 25 players (not including RFAs and minor-leaguers) received new deals that will expire quicker than a carton of milk. Another 15 or so lucky ones were able to squeeze a second year out of their future bosses.

But with the exception of the Montreal Canadiens, who gave five years and US$23.125 million to Karl Alzner and a day later locked up Carey Price for eight years and $84 million, most teams clammed up and had commitment issues this year.

 

you can argue Toronto is also an exception, but in their case and cap situation I think the Marleau signing is warranted that add experience to an extremely young lineup and have cap flexibility.

 

MB on the other hand is a clueless hamster on the wheel

 

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Who else had a franchise player to sign an extension while landing one of the more coveted blueliners in free agency?  Of course they had to commit more term and dollars than other teams; Price wasn't signing a one or two year extension here...  You can't realistically compare giving a franchise player eight years to some mid-30's veterans getting one year deals as whoever wrote that bit is doing.

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1 minute ago, dlbalr said:

Who else had a franchise player to sign an extension while landing one of the more coveted blueliners in free agency?  Of course they had to commit more term and dollars than other teams; Price wasn't signing a one or two year extension here...  You can't realistically compare giving a franchise player eight years to some mid-30's veterans getting one year deals as whoever wrote that bit is doing.

I agree Brian, alzner was going to get paid by someone. Did we pay 1 million too much? probably a l little too long term yeah, but we need defencemen, he was the best we could get,now if we can get Rads and Markov done, we won't look too bad. Signing  Carey had to  be done, best player in the world and a world class leader in the room. No brainer, even mark down figured that out.

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11 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

Who else had a franchise player to sign an extension while landing one of the more coveted blueliners in free agency?  Of course they had to commit more term and dollars than other teams; Price wasn't signing a one or two year extension here...  You can't realistically compare giving a franchise player eight years to some mid-30's veterans getting one year deals as whoever wrote that bit is doing.

I don't have an issue over commuting to Price - he is a core player - I don't like the number he signed for, but given the stupid money that MB has given to Petry, Shaw and Alzner, what incentive is there for Price to give a hometown discount.

 

Alzner is too much money and term to a defensive dman.  The rangers picked up a much better dman for less term.  Yeah. Shatenkirk wanted to go to NYR, but they showed restraint.  MB on the other hand, just signed the old girardi contract the rangers bought out.

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3 minutes ago, habs rule said:

I agree Brian, alzner was going to get paid by someone. Did we pay 1 million too much? probably a l little too long term yeah, but we need defencemen, he was the best we could get,now if we can get Rads and Markov done, we won't look too bad. Signing  Carey had to  be done, best player in the world and a world class leader in the room. No brainer, even mark down figured that out.

MB has already said we can't get Radulov and Markov done.

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

MB has already said we can't get Radulov and Markov done.

from what I read, the ball is in their court they have final offers. Until they sign with someone else  I still have hope.

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2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don't have an issue over commuting to Price - he is a core player - I don't like the number he signed for, but given the stupid money that MB has given to Petry, Shaw and Alzner, what incentive is there for Price to give a hometown discount.

 

Alzner is too much money and term to a defensive dman.  The rangers picked up a much better dman for less term.  Yeah. Shatenkirk wanted to go to NYR, but they showed restraint.  MB on the other hand, just signed the old girardi contract the rangers bought out.

 

Yep. Guys like Shaw, Alzner, even Petry should be developed from within. And when they get to be too expensive, you replace them with still more players from within. That's the Chicago model. Bizarre that Bergevin failed to understand it. Where a top organization might develop two legit #3-4 defenders, we have Pateryn and Beaulieu. Where such an organization might develop a third-line pest or second-line C, we have JDLR or Daniel Carr. We're seeing the results.

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2 minutes ago, habs rule said:

from what I read, the ball is in their court they have final offers. Until they sign with someone else  I still have hope.

My interpretation is that the original offers are of the table - Montreal can't do both now, unless they lower their asks.  I can see them lowering their term, but they both will probably be able to get the dollars they want for lower term.

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. Guys like Shaw, Alzner, even Petry should be developed from within. And when they get to be too expensive, you replace them with still more players from within. That's the Chicago model. Bizarre that Bergevin failed to understand it. Where a top organization might develop two legit #3-4 defenders, we have Pateryn and Beaulieu. Where such an organization might develop a third-line pest or second-line C, we have JDLR or Daniel Carr. We're seeing the results.

That's what happens when you select your buddies as coaches who would be sitting Gretzky and bossy for not being defensively responsible.

 

when we signed Petry, I said back than it was too much money for a 2nd pair dman.  With a NTC to boot!

 

instead of following the Chicago model, MB rushes to sign the Chicago rejects.

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3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

My interpretation is that the original offers are of the table - Montreal can't do both now, unless they lower their asks.  I can see them lowering their term, but they both will probably be able to get the dollars they want for lower term.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiD0sfF6OvUAhWLwlQKHeLpDUUQqUMILDAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportsnet.ca%2Fhockey%2Fnhl%2Fbergevin-says-radulov-markov-welcome-back-canadiens-terms%2F&usg=AFQjCNHm888g0EnEEdBM5iN-qLG0nYuyYw

doesn't sound like the offers are off the table

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3 minutes ago, habs rule said:

from what I read, the ball is in their court they have final offers. Until they sign with someone else  I still have hope.

I feel like the longer this goes the less likely they are to resign. If MB's offers were good enough wouldn't they have signed by now? It seems more likely they're doing their due diligence on a new destination at this point

 

My hope is dwindling

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4 minutes ago, habs rule said:

This is what I read and the reason for my interpretation:

But if two current UFAs who previously called Montreal home want to return to the fold in 2017-18, they'll need to make some concessions, according to the Habs' boss.

Given the current salary cap situation, Bergevin stressed that he isn't able to keep both Russian stars in the lineup together on their terms.

 

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/marc-bergevin-sheds-some-light-on-the-free-agent-market/c-290277834

 

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48 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

This is what I read and the reason for my interpretation:

But if two current UFAs who previously called Montreal home want to return to the fold in 2017-18, they'll need to make some concessions, according to the Habs' boss.

Given the current salary cap situation, Bergevin stressed that he isn't able to keep both Russian stars in the lineup together on their terms.

 

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/marc-bergevin-sheds-some-light-on-the-free-agent-market/c-290277834

 

How I read that is he can pay them what he has offered but not what they are asking. They must come down from their asking price or it is no go. If they accept his offer then he can sign both.

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56 minutes ago, for Pete's sake said:

I feel like the longer this goes the less likely they are to resign.

 

Funny, I feel the opposite is true.  If the money/term was that much better in free agency then they BOTH would have signed by now.  The realty is, it isn't.  I see one (if not both) coming back to MTL with their tail between their legs.

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3 minutes ago, JGC21 said:

 

Funny, I feel the opposite is true.  If the money/term was that much better in free agency then they BOTH would have signed by now.  The realty is, it isn't.  I see one (if not both) coming back to MTL with their tail between their legs.

Lets just say I hope you are correct on at least one wanting to sign.

Seems if both want to come back, Bergy would need to move some $ somehow, just to get Galchenyuk signed...unless Galchenyuk getting resigned isn't a priority.

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Just now, DON said:

Lets just say I hope you are correct on at least one wanting to sign.

Seems if both want to come back, Bergy would need to move some $ somehow, just to get Galchenyuk signed.

 

You're probably right.  Getting Radu, Chucky and Markov back next year will likely cost $16M - they have $15M in cap space.

 

Somebody else will have to go.

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