Maybe things aren't as bad as.....

[illWill]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Boldfaced part: this is exactly what Subban did for Nashville.

 

That's why the trade was so f**king stupid.

 

And that's your opinion. 

 

Weber did that for Montreal, he is exactly what they thought they were getting. They wanted someone more reliable and structured. He was tied for the 2nd most goals among defensemen and he finished 6th in Norris trophy voting....and we also are just going to pretend that the cap savings don't matter to the overall success of the team either...

 

So f**king stupid is right 

 

I wish people would stop being so butt hurt and get over it

[hab29RETIRED]

4 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

And that's your opinion. 

 

Weber did that for Montreal, he is exactly what they thought they were getting. They wanted someone more reliable and structured. He was tied for the 2nd most goals among defensemen and he finished 6th in Norris trophy voting....and we also are just going to pretend that the cap savings don't matter to the overall success of the team either...

 

So f**king stupid is right 

 

I wish people would stop being so butt hurt and get over it

Yeah and I suppose the extra 4 or 5 years on webers contract don't matter either

[illWill]

22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yeah and I suppose the extra 4 or 5 years on webers contract don't matter either

 

Tell me more about how the future will unfold Kreskin

 

I usually like to deal with the now and near future, and not a decade into the future. Nobody knows how effective Weber will be down the road or how that will relate to his cap hit. What I do know is that Subban is currently the highest (!) paid dman in the league without having the title of being the best. His contract will be up in 5 years, what's going to happen then Kreskin? Is he going to get even more money because he will be so awesome during that time, or will he regress on his older legs? Maybe if old man Weber decides to retire after 5 years, Nashville won't even be able to afford superstar Subban because of the recapture penalty they will occur because of the structure of Weber's contract. It's just one of the ways things could play out, but I'm not a psychic. 

[hab29RETIRED]

13 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Tell me more about how the future will unfold Kreskin

 

I usually like to deal with the now and near future, and not a decade into the future. Nobody knows how effective Weber will be down the road or how that will relate to his cap hit. What I do know is that Subban is currently the highest (!) paid dman in the league without having the title of being the best. His contract will be up in 5 years, what's going to happen then Kreskin? Is he going to get even more money because he will be so awesome during that time, or will he regress on his older legs? Maybe if old man Weber decides to retire after 5 years, Nashville won't even be able to afford superstar Subban because of the recapture penalty they will occur because of the structure of Weber's contract. It's just one of the ways things could play out, but I'm not a psychic. 

So Subban who has won a Norris doesn't have the title of ever being the best, but Weber does.  Gotcha - makes sense.

[Habsfan1989]

33 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So Subban who has won a Norris doesn't have the title of ever being the best, but Weber does.  Gotcha - makes sense.

You do know the year he won the Norris it was a lock out year and karlsson was going to win tell he got injured.

[Commandant]

Karlsson was going to win until he got injured. 

 

Nice Crystal ball you have there, since Karlsson only played 17 games that year. 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Losing Subban was good for the locker room. Same with Radulov. And Cammalleri. And Gionta. Can't have players who are successful in the playoffs. Makes everyone else look bad.

[illWill]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So Subban who has won a Norris doesn't have the title of ever being the best, but Weber does.  Gotcha - makes sense.

 

Subban is not the best but is paid like the best. He could perhaps be considered that in the future but he isn't right now. To put it into context, he is making 2.5x what Josi is making for the next 3 years. 

 

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about Weber being the best....nowhere. The steam coming out of your ears is affecting your reading comprehension. 

[DON]

9 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Losing Subban was good for the locker room. 

I and most will agree on that.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

26 minutes ago, DON said:

I and most will agree on that.

 

Funny, the year before all we heard about from everyone on the team was how great the chemistry was. Subban only became a "problem" - if he was a problem - when Price went down and the team sucked. Guess what, losing is bad for chemistry and creates a need for scapegoats. Smart organizations don't indulge in that, but the Habs aren't one of those organizations, obviously.

 

Incidentally, Weber has delivered on being a legit, impactful #1 defenceman. My critique of the trade is based primarily on its total pointlessness - as in, it did not improve the team or lead to better results - and Weber's age and contract. (He is also much more boring than Subban, but that's a different issue).

[Scott462]

Oh good the PK/Weber debate.

 

 

[ehjay]

8 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

Oh good the PK/Weber debate.

 

 

all I saw was in bold and I said: Oh Yeah! who That?

[nihilz]

3 hours ago, DON said:

Yesterday, heard one person who is around Habs saying Subban being gone was good for dressing room. Today a different person said situation with Subban was "untenable" and there was a serious dressing room issue.

I have heard absolutely zero people disputing that since the trade happened, is has all 100% been in-line with those recent comments. 

Some people are just idiots and think world revolves around them and being traded maybe has smartened him up somewhat?  

 

Mitch Gallo 690 was saying that yesterday.

[Habsfan1989]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Karlsson was going to win until he got injured. 

 

Nice Crystal ball you have there, since Karlsson only played 17 games that year. 

He was leading all D in points at the time of his injury. They only played 45 games that year. He was out to a fast start and by fare the best D tell he went down. PK that year I do believe was 2nd or 3rd at the time in points. But Eric would of won the Norris.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Habsfan1989 said:

He was leading all D in points at the time of his injury. They only played 45 games that year. He was out to a fast start and by fare the best D tell he went down. PK that year I do believe was 2nd or 3rd at the time in points. But Eric would of won the Norris.

 

Weber was leading in goals at one point this year after 20 games or something.  How'd that work out. 

 

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts... ...

 

 

Simply no crystal ball of knowing what Karlsson's full season would have been. 

 

 

Its also important to note that yes he was leading after 17 games, Subban missed the first 6 games that year in his contract dispute. 

 

and

Subban's 38 points in 42 games (0.905 PPG) was better than Karlsson's 14 in 17 (0.823 PPG)

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, illWill said:

 

Subban is not the best but is paid like the best. He could perhaps be considered that in the future but he isn't right now. To put it into context, he is making 2.5x what Josi is making for the next 3 years. 

 

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about Weber being the best....nowhere. The steam coming out of your ears is affecting your reading comprehension. 

So whose fault is it the for Subban's salary???  You do realize all of his peers were signed out of their entry level deals and only the idiotic bargain bin Bergevin choose to go the beidg route with his key dman.  Before the lockout started I was a huge advocate of signing Subban to a Keith type 14 year deal that would have taken Subban to around 37.  But unlike the rest of his peers who were scrambling to lockup their key young RFA's to long-term deals, bargain bin didn't reach an agreement.  After the lickiutbub as pushing for an 8 year deal, where Karlsson as the Norris winner would have been the upper limit, but bargain bin pushed for the bridge and hit hit in the ass by it.  The only other team to go that route with a player of the same stature were the incompetent and dysfunctional avalanche who couldn't reach an agreement with ROR who was offer sheeted by Calgary.  Both players ended up being traded were less than adequate returns.

 

so the fact that Subban is paid what he is is because of their he stupidity if your favourite GM? But I'm sure that is far too much for someone of your intelligence to comprehend.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Funny, the year before all we heard about from everyone on the team was how great the chemistry was. Subban only became a "problem" - if he was a problem - when Price went down and the team sucked. Guess what, losing is bad for chemistry and creates a need for scapegoats. Smart organizations don't indulge in that, but the Habs aren't one of those organizations, obviously.

 

Incidentally, Weber has delivered on being a legit, impactful #1 defenceman. My critique of the trade is based primarily on its total pointlessness - as in, it did not improve the team or lead to better results - and Weber's age and contract. (He is also much more boring than Subban, but that's a different issue).

It's a revisionist history propagated by Mgmt, just like the spin control over radulov.

 

the big narrative about Weber was how great of a leader he was - yet MB said the team was too fragile - which is a leadership issue.  Weber was also supposed to be clearing the net and the mountain man was suppose to terrify the opposition from running Price, yet Price had to take matters in his own hands since it seemed the opposition looked at the mountain man like he was a ant hill.

[illWill]

54 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So whose fault is it the for Subban's salary???  You do realize all of his peers were signed out of their entry level deals and only the idiotic bargain bin Bergevin choose to go the beidg route with his key dman.  Before the lockout started I was a huge advocate of signing Subban to a Keith type 14 year deal that would have taken Subban to around 37.  But unlike the rest of his peers who were scrambling to lockup their key young RFA's to long-term deals, bargain bin didn't reach an agreement.  After the lickiutbub as pushing for an 8 year deal, where Karlsson as the Norris winner would have been the upper limit, but bargain bin pushed for the bridge and hit hit in the ass by it.  The only other team to go that route with a player of the same stature were the incompetent and dysfunctional avalanche who couldn't reach an agreement with ROR who was offer sheeted by Calgary.  Both players ended up being traded were less than adequate returns.

 

so the fact that Subban is paid what he is is because of their he stupidity if your favourite GM? But I'm sure that is far too much for someone of your intelligence to comprehend.

 

Sorry for the late response, it took me a while to sift through the grammatical and spelling errors in your post. Breathe, and then post, it's not hard.

 

Yes, we are all aware of the genius ability you have as an armchair GM. If only you were actually a part of the negotiations would we be able to swallow the crap that you feed us. I also would have signed him to a 14 year deal at a lower hit, but reality tells me I'm not able to wave a magic wand and make it happen. My reality and yours are quite different though. I don't get angry at things that didn't happen in my fictional proposals. Do you have proof Subban would have signed such a contract? Your problem is that when someone doesn't do what you would do it means they are incompetent. 

 

"If you start listening to the fans you will become one of them" - Marc Bergevin

[DON]

34 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Sorry for the late response, it took me a while to sift through the grammatical and spelling errors in your post. Breathe, and then post, it's not hard.

 

Yes, we are all aware of the genius ability you have as an armchair GM. If only you were actually a part of the negotiations would we be able to swallow the crap that you feed us. I also would have signed him to a 14 year deal at a lower hit, but reality tells me I'm not able to wave a magic wand and make it happen. My reality and yours are quite different though. I don't get angry at things that didn't happen in my fictional proposals. Do you have proof Subban would have signed such a contract? Your problem is that when someone doesn't do what you would do it means they are incompetent. 

 

"If you start listening to the fans you will become one of them" - Marc Bergevin

good stuff

[Toronthab]

WE TRADED SUBBANNNNNN!!!!!???????  

Quote

 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The talk in 2013 was that Subban and his agent wanted a deal similar to Doughty's but less in money. Something around eight years between $6 million and $6.5 million. Bergevin wanted nothing to do with it and even fought Subban on the dollars and cents of the two year bridge, stating Subban did a good job with arguing him up to the $2.8 million number. It's no coincidence that Subban returned to the Habs on the third pairing instead of the top where he was. Bergevin and Therrien did not believe he was the teams best D. They didn't think he was anywhere close to it. 

 

It should be reminded that Subban led the team in scoring in the playoffs every year during the Bergevin era. The one year he wasn't on the team, who stepped up? Radulov. He's gone now too.

[Habsfan1989]

Can we stop with this already !! it is over and done , get over it or just stop being a habs fan and start being a Nashville fan already my god. 

 Oh and by the way just to push your buttons on this how come PK never gets pick for team Canada if he is the best and a God ??? 

[bbp]

2 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

Can we stop with this already !! it is over and done , get over it or just stop being a habs fan and start being a Nashville fan already my god. 

 Oh and by the way just to push your buttons on this how come PK never gets pick for team Canada if he is the best and a God ??? 

Because team Canada knew the trade was coming and wanted to add fuel to the fire.

Obviously.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

13 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

Oh and by the way just to push your buttons on this how come PK never gets pick for team Canada if he is the best and a God ??? 

Same team that decided Kris Letang wasn't good enough either. 

 

Subban isn't the best. He's not a god. But he was the best playoff performer. And I want to see the Canadiens win a Cup in my lifetime. In 2011 they traded their best playoff performer. And 2017 they once again traded their best playoff performer. It's just not going to happen if this keeps happening. 

[Lovett's Magnatones]

57 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Same team that decided Kris Letang wasn't good enough either. 

 

Subban isn't the best. He's not a god. But he was the best playoff performer. And I want to see the Canadiens win a Cup in my lifetime. In 2011 they traded their best playoff performer. And 2017 they once again traded their best playoff performer. It's just not going to happen if this keeps happening. 

 

We can conclude this group doesn't have it...MB will hold on for one, and probably two more years...then a rebuild. So realistically, 2025 is the next shot?