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sbhatt    21
16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Hey I said in my post that I think he will - only caveat is that radulov will play with seguin or spezza - which is why I think it is far from a certainty, since who knows who Drouin will play with 

 

If Radulov plays with Seguin and Benn, I think it's a safe bet that Drouin won't even be close.

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xXx..CK..xXx    146

In my opinion there are too many things going on here. Less than a month ago everyone agreed that our primary need was to acquire a top 6 center... and/or a top 2 defenseman.

 

Soon after, we lose 2 left handed defensemen due to the Vegas lottery draft and trade away our top prospect who also happens to be left handed.

 

Although I don't agree with the trade offs, let's say one considers that we replaced that missing Sergachev piece with Alzner. We still haven't signed Markov and so that hole has yet to be filled. I'm starting to agree that we will sign him and if that's the case, all is relatively alright here considering the options that were available this season in free agency on defense.

 

Then we have the fact that Drouin will replace Radulov in a sense since it seems to be a popular way of looking at it. Many are also penciling him on the right wing next to Galchenyuk on the first line, where we may have liked to see Radulov. This comes at the same time that others are suggesting that Drouin should be a top 6 center for us. If he doesn't play right wing, then he didn't really replace Radulov at all, positionally speaking.

 

If he doesn't play center and he plays right wing, then we quite possibly go into next season still longing for that top 6 center. We have configurations that can be quite dangerous with the group of players we have, but we also still very likely have the possibility of seeing Danault or Plekanec in the top 6 again. This is an area I was hoping to improve on, not stay the same. 

 

There's no doubt that there's still a move or two more before the season but as things stand now there still are similar questions in the air when it comes to how our lineup will even be configured next season.

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Link67    108
22 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

We were poised to take a large step ahead now at best we can break even at the cost of out top prospect?/

 

break even is far from our at best.

 

Break even is if Markov returns and has a down year compared to last year, because internally we are due for a bunch of small bounce backs in the pendulum. Gallagher should not be expected to produce so little again, Plekanec could improve from a dismal 28 points. Galchenyuk could easily improve his numbers with the whole contract fiasco aside, a fresh start and riding shotgun with Pacioretty and Drouin.

 

A Solid step forward will come if we Do better than Markov in his position, a trade for a top 4 PMD

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Link67    108
2 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

In my opinion there are too many things going on here. Less than a month ago everyone agreed that our primary need was to acquire a top 6 center... and/or a top 2 defenseman.

 

Soon after, we lose 2 left handed defensemen due to the Vegas lottery draft and trade away our top prospect who also happens to be left handed.

 

Although I don't agree with the trade offs, let's say one considers that we replaced that missing Sergachev piece with Alzner. We still haven't signed Markov and so that hole has yet to be filled. I'm starting to agree that we will sign him and if that's the case, all is relatively alright here considering the options that were available this season in free agency on defense.

 

Then we have the fact that Drouin will replace Radulov in a sense since it seems to be a popular way of looking at it. Many are also penciling him on the right wing next to Galchenyuk on the first line, where we may have liked to see Radulov. This comes at the same time that others are suggesting that Drouin should be a top 6 center for us. If he doesn't play right wing, then he didn't really replace Radulov at all, positionally speaking.

 

If he doesn't play center and he plays right wing, then we quite possibly go into next season still longing for that top 6 center. We have configurations that can be quite dangerous with the group of players we have, but we also still very likely have the possibility of seeing Danault or Plekanec in the top 6 again. This is an area I was hoping to improve on, not stay the same. 

 

There's no doubt that there's still a move or two more before the season but as things stand now there still are similar questions in the air when it comes to how our lineup will even be configured next season.

 

a top 6 center is still and has been the glaring need on this team, would have liked to see Johansson here for the same deal but apparently we were not on his list of teams, so it is what it is.

 

That said getting a solid center for a top line is not easy, or cheap, at this point the only ones even available are Duchene and Henrique and I would bet a solid amount on the fact trading Sergachev for either one of them straight up would be impossible. Yet he delivered us a 22 year old who is already producing at the same clip as either of those 2 guys at a younger age, with a higher ceiling than both. Its like being at the draft, and using your 1st round pick to pick the best player available, Drouin is the most talented, with the biggest upside and the most longevity out of the 3. We used our 1st round pick to get him, it would have cost us that same pick and other stuff to acquire either of the other two. Make no mistake, to get either of the other 2 guys the teams they play for would accept nothing less than Sergachev, a Roster player, and a pick.

 

I'd rather have Drouin, and continue searching for the better opportunity to get a center going forward. I'd rather trade a bunch of high quality assets for a home run Center than trade the same asset we got Drouin with, plus some other stuff to acquire Duchene or Henrique.

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Commandant    610
3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Mostly agree, but Sergechev may have made a significant impact by playoff time this year, certainly more than hemsky will.

 

By the same token, Drouin is also expected to produce more in the future than radulov (hasn't happened yet - but I think he will), but it's far from a certainty 

 

To me, and I say this every draft... if you rank two players at equal talent, take the forward over the Dman every time. 

 

So getting a young semi-proven forward where i think there is still potential and the sky is the limit instead of a yound unproven dman where the sky is the limit.  I prefer the forward. 

 

Getting an elite dman later in a draft is easier than getting an elite forward outside the top 10. 

 

I don't know why we would ever compare sergachev to hemsky though, that makes no sense to me. 

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Commandant    610
3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

The thing is when we aquired Drouin I thought that we were finally going for it. We gave up our prized piece and were about to lay it all down for a serious shot at the cup. I thought that we were going to have a potent offense and at worst the same basic defense that we had last year. Perhaps a trade to upgrade centre but this was finally it, we were making a serious statement.

 

Now it seems that we are just trying to stay afloat and hopefully make the playoffs "where anything can happen".

 

I like your vision for the future and the positive spin on it. I am also incredibly worried that we have the worse prospects in the NHL. We have nothing developing, nothing to hope for in this area. Trading all of our vets for young guys/picks is something that would happen in a few years when they aren't worth as much. What will Weber be worth in three years?

 

We are doomed to high priced UFAs to fill holes for the foreseeable future or trades wich are hard.

 

I am disappointed because I thought that we were so close and now it looks very far. I look at our team and there seems to be very little to be excited about or hopeful of.

 

We traded our best prospect, yes

 

We got a 22 year old forward whose ceiling is just as high.

 

If we got a 30 year old, or even a 27 year old I'd agree... but Drouin is the same age as some of the players other teams call "prospects" in their great prospect pools. 

 

Heck, how many people freaked out that we were going to lose a prospect in Hudon to Vegas?  Drouin is younger than Hudon. 

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Commandant    610
3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

We were poised to take a large step ahead now at best we can break even at the cost of out top prospect?/

 

Before the draft.... If we traded the 9th overall pick in 2016 for a 21 year old forward with huge potential, aka Jonathan Drouin, would you have been upset?  I wouldn't have. 

 

 

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DON    27
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Before the draft.... If we traded the 9th overall pick in 2016 for a 21 year old forward with huge potential, aka Jonathan Drouin, would you have been upset?  I wouldn't have. 

 

 

Not sure you have chimed in but curious? Do you think Habs should of paid the asking price and simply got him resigned? Or would you of done as Bergevin has and not gone overboard?

 

Or was Radulov headed South no matter what was offered (barring a stupid high offer which wouldn't happen).

Edited by DON
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Commandant    610

The more I think about it and look at the roster, radulov was a luxury.

 

It all depends on what Bergevin does with the remaining money.  We could have got another winger in radulov (and that means two of Hudon, Shaw, Byron, Lehkonen play fourth line) or we can spend it on a C or a LHD. 

 

If Bergevin spends Radulov's money smartly on Markov, another LHD, or a good C... we will be better off than having Radulov... honestly. 

 

My fear is Bergevin misses on Markov.  Cant get a C even with his cap space... and doesn't find a trade partner on D either.  If this happens, we are in trouble. 


So my answer right now is that I would have let him go and spent elsewhere. 

 

I do expect Bergevin to find a good player with that money though. 

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DON    27
1 minute ago, Commandant said:

The more I think about it and look at the russia, radulov was a luxury.

 

It all depends on what Bergevin does with the remaining money.  We could have got another winger in radulov (and that means two of Hudon, Shaw, Byron, Lehkonen play fourth line) or we can spend it on a C or a LHD. 

 

If Bergevin spends Radulov's money smartly on Markov, another LHD, or a good C... we will be better off than having Radulov... honestly. 

 

My fear is Bergevin misses on Markov.  Cant get a C even with his cap space... and doesn't find a trade partner on D either.  If this happens, we are in trouble. 


So my answer right now is that I would have let him go and spent elsewhere. 

 

I do expect Bergevin to find a good player with that money though. 

thanks

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DON    27

Is Markov a shrewd agent? He seems to be one of best UFAs still available and dosent seem to be in a real hurry to get a deal done.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Is Markov a shrewd agent? He seems to be one of best UFAs still available and dosent seem to be in a real hurry to get a deal done.

 

He always seemed like a pretty cool cucumber. Maybe he is so confident that he is just waiting out the suitors to see who gets desperate?

 

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Habsfan1989    4
12 hours ago, DON said:

Is Markov a shrewd agent? He seems to be one of best UFAs still available and dosent seem to be in a real hurry to get a deal done.

The problem is he thinks he is still in his prime and is worth 6mil. He needs to realize that he is 38 and in today's NHL that means your worth 2.5mil at best.

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DON    27
2 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

The problem is he thinks he is still in his prime and is worth 6mil. He needs to realize that he is 38 and in today's NHL that means your worth 2.5mil at best.

$2.5m?

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Commandant    610
8 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

The problem is he thinks he is still in his prime and is worth 6mil. He needs to realize that he is 38 and in today's NHL that means your worth 2.5mil at best.

 

He was the 5th highest scoring defenceman 5v5 in the NHL last season. (points per game).

 

Lets not get silly with these 2.5 million numbers. 

 

Speaking of guys who are older, he had better PPG as a defenceman than Patrick Marleau ($6.25 million) and Joe Thornton (8 million) had as forwards. 

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Habsfan1989    4

If we are getting real, he is 38 on two bad legs and very slow. 

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kaos    7

Fact

 

1. Habs couldn't score against Rangers in 2017 playoffs. 

2. Habs struggled to move the puck out of their zone transitioning from dmen to forwards. 

3. Habs centre position ranking is bottom 5 in the league? Definitely bottom 10.

4.  Habs have not addressed #1. Yes they brought in Drouin, but allowed Radulov to leave.

5.  Habs have not addressed #2 and still do not have a reliable puck rushing dman. Which means Julien has to continue with failed theory of having dmen chip puck off boards and hoping forwards can recovery and transition to offence. This flies in the face of letting one of your best possession players walk and your centermen are shit.  

6.) Habs still have a good, mostly young forward core;  Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Drouin, Byron, Gallagher, Pacioretty.

7. Goalie is elite 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, kaos said:

Fact

 

1. Habs couldn't score against Rangers in 2017 playoffs. 

2. Habs struggled to move the puck out of their zone transitioning from dmen to forwards. 

3. Habs centre position ranking is bottom 5 in the league? Definitely bottom 10.

4.  Habs have not addressed #1. Yes they brought in Drouin, but allowed Radulov to leave.

5.  Habs have not addressed #2 and still do not have a reliable puck rushing dman. Which means Julien has to continue with failed theory of having dmen chip puck off boards and hoping forwards can recovery and transition to offence. This flies in the face of letting one of your best possession players walk and your centermen are shit.  

6.) Habs still have a good, mostly young forward core;  Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Drouin, Byron, Gallagher, Pacioretty.

7. Goalie is elite 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. Good post.

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Commandant    610

 

44 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

If we are getting real, he is 38 on two bad legs and very slow. 

 

He has missed 22 games in the last 5 years since he had those leg injuries. 

 

He was still the 5th highest scoring ppg defenceman 5v5 last year on those legs. 

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Commandant    610

Alzner is also good at moving the puck and getting transition started with possession, he's just not a pp guy or a join the rush guy, so its not translating into points, but he moves the puck 1000x better than emelin and is not a chip and chase D.

 

 

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Does anyone deny that Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin? The issue is simply the absence of any defenceman other than Weber capable of generating offence. If we sign Markov, then that issue is resolved in the short-term and the team as a whole is improved on last season. I do think that offence starts from the back-end, though, and therefore find it incredible that a goal-starved team would actually go into the season with our blueline as currently configured.

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Commandant    610
9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Does anyone deny that Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin? The issue is simply the absence of any defenceman other than Weber capable of generating offence. If we sign Markov, then that issue is resolved in the short-term and the team as a whole is improved on last season. I do think that offence starts from the back-end, though, and therefore find it incredible that a goal-starved team would actually go into the season with our blueline as currently configured.

 

Markov yes

 

Or use the 6 - 6.5 million wisely in a trade. 

 

Either way one LHD should be acquired. 

 

Its July 5th though.  and Markov hasn't signed... I'm willing to watch this play out. 

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Just now, Commandant said:

 

Markov yes

 

Or use the 6 - 6.5 million wisely in a trade. 

 

Either way one LHD should be acquired. 

 

I'm just worried that that trade will involve Galchenyuk. This would fit the modus operandi of ol' Whack-a-Mole.

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Commandant    610
Just now, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm just worried that that trade will involve Galchenyuk. This would fit the modus operandi of ol' Whack-a-Mole.

 

I don't see how it does. 

 

My 6-6.5 million includes budgetting 5.5-6 for galchenyuk. 

 

 

If we move galchenyuk that means acquiring 12 million in salary. 

 

 

Moving him 1 for 1 for a Dman would still leave the Habs drastically under the cap. 

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Habsfan1989    4
46 minutes ago, kaos said:

Fact

 

1. Habs couldn't score against Rangers in 2017 playoffs. 

2. Habs struggled to move the puck out of their zone transitioning from dmen to forwards. 

3. Habs centre position ranking is bottom 5 in the league? Definitely bottom 10.

4.  Habs have not addressed #1. Yes they brought in Drouin, but allowed Radulov to leave.

5.  Habs have not addressed #2 and still do not have a reliable puck rushing dman. Which means Julien has to continue with failed theory of having dmen chip puck off boards and hoping forwards can recovery and transition to offence. This flies in the face of letting one of your best possession players walk and your centermen are shit.  

6.) Habs still have a good, mostly young forward core;  Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Drouin, Byron, Gallagher, Pacioretty.

7. Goalie is elite 

 

 

 

So you would over pay for a guy because you need him??? That's how we got weber. MB though we needed him to get us over the top. But in fact we probably didn't need him as much as we need a true #1 play making center. And if he realize this that trade probably never happens.

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