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JoeLassister    272

Yeah.  It's all true... but... cap space never won any SC.

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Habsfan1989    5
13 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Yeah.  It's all true... but... cap space never won any SC.

It has nothing to with cap space. Just spending the money smartly. If people thing giving a 38 year old with bad legs and who is slow 6m over 2 years smart. just because we need him, well then we will never win a cup.

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hab29RETIRED    159
40 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

So you would over pay for a guy because you need him??? That's how we got weber. MB though we needed him to get us over the top. But in fact we probably didn't need him as much as we need a true #1 play making center. And if he realize this that trade probably never happens.

We got Weber because the habs brain trust disliked Subban's personality.  It had nothing to do with Weber being that guy to "get us over the top".  

 

Our turnaround in the standings had nothing to do with Weber and everything to do with Carey Price being healthy.  On the flip side, Nashville made really only one significant change - swapping Weber for Subban - and went to the finals.

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hab29RETIRED    159
51 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't see how it does. 

 

My 6-6.5 million includes budgetting 5.5-6 for galchenyuk. 

 

 

If we move galchenyuk that means acquiring 12 million in salary. 

 

 

Moving him 1 for 1 for a Dman would still leave the Habs drastically under the cap. 

I don't think the cucumber is referring to having enough cap space.  I think the point he is making is that if Markov isn't resigned, to get a dman, MB would trade Galchenyuk to acquire the Markov replacement (since their really isn't a viable option available as a free agent).  So yeah, if we move galchenyuk to fill a hole on D, we could acquire a $6m dman, and still have $6m of cap space to play with.  But than we still have to fill a other hole we have by losing galchenyuk.  Yeah, we have the cap space, but how do we acquire the galchenyuk replacement to be able use the remaining cap space without giving up another asset?

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JoeLassister    272
36 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

It has nothing to with cap space. Just spending the money smartly.

My point exactly.

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illWill    396
16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We got Weber because the habs brain trust disliked Subban's personality.  It had nothing to do with Weber being that guy to "get us over the top".  

 

Our turnaround in the standings had nothing to do with Weber and everything to do with Carey Price being healthy.  On the flip side, Nashville made really only one significant change - swapping Weber for Subban - and went to the finals.

 

There's so much to debate here that rather than doing so, just pretend that I ripped this post to shreds. 

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Commandant    600
1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Yeah.  It's all true... but... cap space never won any SC.

 

I highly, highly, highly doubt the habs have 8 million in cap space when the season opens. 

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Habsfan1989    5
31 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We got Weber because the habs brain trust disliked Subban's personality.  It had nothing to do with Weber being that guy to "get us over the top".  

 

Our turnaround in the standings had nothing to do with Weber and everything to do with Carey Price being healthy.  On the flip side, Nashville made really only one significant change - swapping Weber for Subban - and went to the finals.

Nashville biggest move was addressing a need which was a number 1 center.  They traded from strength which was on D to get it. Johansen for jones. That's what put them almost over the top.

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Commandant    600
26 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don't think the cucumber is referring to having enough cap space.  I think the point he is making is that if Markov isn't resigned, to get a dman, MB would trade Galchenyuk to acquire the Markov replacement (since their really isn't a viable option available as a free agent).  So yeah, if we move galchenyuk to fill a hole on D, we could acquire a $6m dman, and still have $6m of cap space to play with.  But than we still have to fill a other hole we have by losing galchenyuk.  Yeah, we have the cap space, but how do we acquire the galchenyuk replacement to be able use the remaining cap space without giving up another asset?

 

Did you see the Devils/Capitals trade this week?  

 

Cap space is a tool that can be used, when you are taking on someone else's contract and not taking any deals back. 

 

Detroit, Washington, Chicago, will all need to clear space still. 

 

Florida wants to dump payroll for budget reasons. 

 

There may be more. 

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Commandant    600
Just now, Habsfan1989 said:

Nashville biggest move was addressing a need which was a number 1 center.  They traded from strength which was on D to get it. Johansen for jones. That's what turned almost put the over the top.

 

And they had that number 1 centre and Weber the year before and didn't win. 

 

And they lost that number 1 centre to injury and still won a series with Subban one year later. 

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JoeLassister    272
6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I highly, highly, highly doubt the habs have 8 million in cap space when the season opens. 

Yes, but we're not fixing any of our holes sending only picks back.

There is no #1C/RW (depending where Drouin and Galchenyuk play) or  Top Pair dman  coming in this way.

 

All that matters is actually turning this cap space into WEAPONS !!!  (read : not Hemsky/Vrbata type players) 

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Commandant    600
3 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Yes, but we're not fixing any of our holes sending only picks back.

There is no #1C/RW (depending where Drouin and Galchenyuk play) or  Top Pair dman  coming in this way.

 

All that matters is actually turning this cap space into WEAPONS !!!  (read : not Hemsky/Vrbata type players) 

 

People didn't expect a 24 year old player with 58 points last season to be traded for picks.  It happened last week, and between two teams in the same division no less. 

 

I'll wait to see the actual moves that are made before I criticize them. 

 

You know I've been at the front of the pack criticizing the Subban move, criticizing Bergevin for not getting a centre, criticizing drafting McCarron and in criticizing the deadline pickups. 

 

I'll join you if I don't like his next move.  But I'm at least going to give him the opportunity to make that move before critiquing it. 

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Habsfan1989    5
12 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

And they had that number 1 centre and Weber the year before and didn't win. 

 

And they lost that number 1 centre to injury and still won a series with Subban one year later. 

They got him half way through the season. His first full season they make the cup finals. In today's NHL it's about being strong down the middle of the ice. 

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Habsfan1989    5
4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

People didn't expect a 24 year old player with 58 points last season to be traded for picks.  It happened last week, and between two teams in the same division no less. 

 

I'll wait to see the actual moves that are made before I criticize them. 

 

You know I've been at the front of the pack criticizing the Subban move, criticizing Bergevin for not getting a centre, criticizing drafting McCarron and in criticizing the deadline pickups. 

 

I'll join you if I don't like his next move.  But I'm at least going to give him the opportunity to make that move before critiquing it. 

I agree I am ok with trading your best chip to fills holes else where. Like if we made the Edmonton deal and got the 4th pick and draisaitl for PK. I would of been ok with that because we could of flip the pick for a puck moving D to replace PK. But to do a 1 for 1 D move made absolute no sense.

 

we just seem to keep taking one step forward and 5 steps backwards.

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JoeLassister    272
11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

People didn't expect a 24 year old player with 58 points last season to be traded for picks.  It happened last week, and between two teams in the same division no less. 

 

I'll wait to see the actual moves that are made before I criticize them. 

 

You know I've been at the front of the pack criticizing the Subban move, criticizing Bergevin for not getting a centre, criticizing drafting McCarron and in criticizing the deadline pickups. 

 

I'll join you if I don't like his next move.  But I'm at least going to give him the opportunity to make that move before critiquing it. 

Marcus Johansson had a 58 pts season cuz he played for Washington.

He's no better than  Pax, Galchenyuk or Drouin.  Therefore, he's not top line material and we don't need that kind of player.

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Commandant    600
6 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Marcus Johansson had a 58 pts season cuz he played for Washington.

He's no better than  Pax, Galchenyuk or Drouin.  Therefore, he's not top line material and we don't need that kind of player.

 

The point wasn't needing Johansson.  It was that cap space can be used as a tool in making a trade to get a player that fans don't think is available at a relatively cheap price. 

 

No one saw the Johansson deal happening.  No one was predicting it. 

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Habsfan1989    5

Yeah johanasson was traded to make cap space so they could sign kuznetsov who we should of draft because we needed a center and not over reach on a D(because of his size)

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hab29RETIRED    159
1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

There's so much to debate here that rather than doing so, just pretend that I ripped this post to shreds. 

What's to debate and shred - the fact that Subban and the preds went to the finals, it that the habs and Weber got knocked out in the first round??? 

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hab29RETIRED    159
1 hour ago, Habsfan1989 said:

Nashville biggest move was addressing a need which was a number 1 center.  They traded from strength which was on D to get it. Johansen for jones. That's what put them almost over the top.

They had Johansen the year before and were knocked out.  The only significant move they made after getting knocked out was trading for Subban.

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hab29RETIRED    159
1 hour ago, Habsfan1989 said:

They got him half way through the season. His first full season they make the cup finals. In today's NHL it's about being strong down the middle of the ice. 

Umm,  they never had johanssen in the critical games to get to the finals.   I agree they missed him in the finals - but they got to the finals without him and took the pens to the seventh game without any real top 2 centre.

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Habsfan1989    5
16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Umm,  they never had johanssen in the critical games to get to the finals.   I agree they missed him in the finals - but they got to the finals without him and took the pens to the seventh game without any real top 2 centre.

Yeah but my point is they addressed there need which was at center. With that trade he became there #1 guy, then they added depth behind him. Something we never did. If they didn't make the trade with us I think they still make the cup finals with or without weber. But hey we could keep going back and forth here for days lol.

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In today's NHL.. you need a top Center to win. More important than D. More important than a goalie. 

 

Teams have won with a mediocre goalie that got hot. 

Teams have won with beat up d. 

Nobody wins the Cup without a strong middle. Period. 

 

It's been Montreal's issue for years. And unless MB has a trick up his sleeve (Draisaitl, Tavares) it'll be the thing that costs us this year too. 

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hab29RETIRED    159
4 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

In today's NHL.. you need a top Center to win. More important than D. More important than a goalie. 

 

Teams have won with a mediocre goalie that got hot. 

Teams have won with beat up d. 

Nobody wins the Cup without a strong middle. Period. 

 

It's been Montreal's issue for years. And unless MB has a trick up his sleeve (Draisaitl, Tavares) it'll be the thing that costs us this year too. 

Hey, I totally agree on the centre issue - when there was talk about Subban being moved last year, draisaitl was one of the guys I had said I'd move him for and I've had numerous posts this year about offer sheeting Draisaitl.  I'd hoped mcdavid' contract was closer to the $13.5m that was reported earlier. Wit it coming in at $1m less I'm all for throwing an offer sheet that matches Price's contract 

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Habsfan1989    5

The funny thing is if you look at the list of centers we have past on in the draft over the past 20 years  that were there when we picked and are now elite players in this league it's mind blowing. And how many players we picked a head of them aren't even in the league. This from a team that has needed a center over the last 20 years.

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illWill    396
1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What's to debate and shred - the fact that Subban and the preds went to the finals, it that the habs and Weber got knocked out in the first round??? 

 

Passing off speculation and opinion as fact. As well as cherry picking one single transaction as the cause of the result for two teams.

 

 

 

 

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