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Maybe things aren't as bad as.....

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Update 7 million approx to spend. 

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4 hours ago, illWill said:

 

Passing off speculation and opinion as fact. As well as cherry picking one single transaction as the cause of the result for two teams.

 

 

 

 

Weber was really good for us in the playoffs. If he can be like that for us in general, I look forward to a lot of long runs with him on our team.

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-A really hot goalie

- 3 other Dman playing equal to and better on occasion 

- Johansen battling right through more then 2.5 of 4 rounds with the best of the C's in the west.

- did I say a really hot goalie?

- arvidson playing like a demon rather then a sophomore 

- their 4th overall pick foresberg playing WAY better then our 3rd overall pick galchenyuk

-a lot of secondary scoring 

-sissions scoring timely goals...

- a rookie gaudreau really blossoming in essentially his first taste of NHL hockey let alone the WCF and SCF after Johansen went down ...

-fisher turning back the clock...

- a really hot goalie 

- so many factors to Nashville's SC loss, and I do stress loss. In the end, injury to Johansen did catch up to them.

 

dont get me wrong subban played a huge role as well but let's not make it out like the preds would of been worse off with Weber and we would of scored more with the Subbanator against NYR.

 

the two biggest factors from Nashville losing to SJ last year and LOSING in the final this year is goaltending and secondary scoring.

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4 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

-A really hot goalie

- 3 other Dman playing equal to and better on occasion 

- Johansen battling right through more then 2.5 of 4 rounds with the best of the C's in the west.

- did I say a really hot goalie?

- arvidson playing like a demon rather then a sophomore 

- their 4th overall pick foresberg playing WAY better then our 3rd overall pick galchenyuk

-a lot of secondary scoring 

-sissions scoring timely goals...

- a rookie gaudreau really blossoming in essentially his first taste of NHL hockey let alone the WCF and SCF after Johansen went down ...

-fisher turning back the clock...

- a really hot goalie 

- so many factors to Nashville's SC loss, and I do stress loss. In the end, injury to Johansen did catch up to them.

 

dont get me wrong subban played a huge role as well but let's not make it out like the preds would of been worse off with Weber and we would of scored more with the Subbanator against NYR.

 

the two biggest factors from Nashville losing to SJ last year and LOSING in the final this year is goaltending and secondary scoring.

You forgot Weber being a pylon and totally ineffective in the clinching game in which he was on the ice for 4 or 5 goals against in the clinching game.  You can blame goaltending all you want but YouTube webers play on those goals.

 

the preds also never got past Chicago before, where Subban totally shutdown toews.  

 

What was the if reason that MB have for the trade.  Weber's leadership and the fact that he won the (whooping friggin do) messier leadership award.  Did his leadership prevent the collapse that FINALLY got MT fired??  MB himself called the team fragile after their playoff loss - guess he wasn't able to lead them out of their fragile state.

 

anyway, in tired about debating the Subban-Weber trade.  Al I can say if the situation reversed the trade supporters would still be crowing about it.

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Subban's most matched against forward in each series:  Malkin, Toews, Getzlaf, Tarasenko

 

Number of 5v5 goals those four forwards scored in the playoffs with Subban on the ice: 0

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Subban's most matched against forward in each series:  Malkin, Toews, Getzlaf, Tarasenko

 

Number of 5v5 goals those four forwards scored in the playoffs with Subban on the ice: 0

 

 

 

I'm not in the mood to debate it either but it's impossible for both parties to see eye to eye on the topic.

 

Intentional or not, your point provides a perspective that Subban helped the Predators make the cup final when they wouldn't have been able to otherwise. If that's not the point, then I don't know why it's being brought up.

 

The other side sees that Subban was on the team but there were other factors in their cup run and he didn't carry them on his back to the final.

 

None of that erases the fact that the trade could have been beneficial to both teams.

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Toews, Tarasenko and Malkin all still scored goals if not multiple goals in their respective series' against the Preds and hockey is a team sport. Getzlaf is a playmaker and got a handful of assists against Nashville.

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34 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

None of that erases the fact that the trade could have been beneficial to both teams.

Still waiting for the benefit for the Habs. 

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Were not going to hash this up again are we?

 

Weber played very well for us last year, Subban played very well for Nashville.

 

Can't that be the end of it? cause it is the truth

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41 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Toews, Tarasenko and Malkin all still scored goals if not multiple goals in their respective series' against the Preds and hockey is a team sport. Getzlaf is a playmaker and got a handful of assists against Nashville.

 

none scored an even strength goal with Subban on the ice.  They also played the vast majority of their minutes against subban.  Thats a fact. 

 

No need to dispute facts. 

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Subban is a shut down defender now. I said a couple times last year that Subban looks a lot like Weber out their at times with his defensive play.

 

Pretty cool.

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2 hours ago, Scott462 said:

Subban is a shut down defender now. I said a couple times last year that Subban looks a lot like Weber out their at times with his defensive play.

 

Pretty cool.

 

So, why did we trade him, then? What did trading him accomplish, other than aging us by almost four years at a key position?

 

A: absolutely nothing. Dumb trade made to satisfy the egos of MB and MT, or else to solve a make-believe problem ('leadership').

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26 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

So, why did we trade him, then? What did trading him accomplish, other than aging us by almost four years at a key position?

 

A: absolutely nothing. Dumb trade made to satisfy the egos of MB and MT, or else to solve a make-believe problem ('leadership').

 

Carey Price has an answer for you:

 

“The way our game is structured and the way P.K. plays … we’re headed in a different direction.

“P.K. is an offensive defenceman and a risk-taker,” the goalie added. “That’s made him successful, that’s the way he plays the game. He doesn’t want to change that and I respect that. I respect the way that he plays the game … his type of enthusiasm and his ability to raise fans out of their seats. That’s a special gift and something that not very many players are able to do. But the way we’re coached on our team, the way our team is structured, that’s not what were looking for. We’re looking for a steady type of defenceman that makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away. Shea fits that bill perfectly.”

 

 

It also helps that he makes 1.2m less against the cap, or say an Ales Hemsky signing. 

 

But no, it was about egos....and now broken hearts apparently 

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11 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You forgot Weber being a pylon and totally ineffective in the clinching game in which he was on the ice for 4 or 5 goals against in the clinching game.  You can blame goaltending all you want but YouTube webers play on those goals.

 

the preds also never got past Chicago before, where Subban totally shutdown toews.  

 

What was the if reason that MB have for the trade.  Weber's leadership and the fact that he won the (whooping friggin do) messier leadership award.  Did his leadership prevent the collapse that FINALLY got MT fired??  MB himself called the team fragile after their playoff loss - guess he wasn't able to lead them out of their fragile state.

 

anyway, in tired about debating the Subban-Weber trade.  Al I can say if the situation reversed the trade supporters would still be crowing about it.

We had subban on this team for a full season and we missed the playoffs and finished 9th last. So don't think that he was the reason why Nashville went to the cup finals.

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51 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

We had subban on this team for a full season and we missed the playoffs and finished 9th last. So don't think that he was the reason why Nashville went to the cup finals.

Price also got injured for most of that year.

 

I won't stick on this topic after this post but I need to say one thing about it.

 

Saying Subban or Weber is the sole reason for either team's successes or failures is a silly argument. However it's also silly to deny what they objectively bring to the table. 

 

Both are great defensivemen. But in my opinion Weber is a "good ol canadian boy", and always get the benefit of the doubt where Subban doesn't. People on the other side of the argument always say we're just whining. To me it just seems like others are denying some uncomfortable truths and biases about how the players are perceived. 

 

Put Subbans play in Webers personality/body and he doesn't receive 1/10th the flak.

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18 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

Price also got injured for most of that year.

 

I won't stick on this topic after this post but I need to say one thing about it.

 

Saying Subban or Weber is the sole reason for either team's successes or failures is a silly argument. However it's also silly to deny what they objectively bring to the table. 

 

Both are great defensivemen. But in my opinion Weber is a "good ol canadian boy", and always get the benefit of the doubt where Subban doesn't. People on the other side of the argument always say we're just whining. To me it just seems like others are denying some uncomfortable truths and biases about how the players are perceived. 

 

Put Subbans play in Webers personality/body and he doesn't receive 1/10th the flak.

That's what I was trying to point out in my post. Hockey's a team sport. One player doesn't make a team.

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

Carey Price has an answer for you:

 

“The way our game is structured and the way P.K. plays … we’re headed in a different direction.

“P.K. is an offensive defenceman and a risk-taker,” the goalie added. “That’s made him successful, that’s the way he plays the game. He doesn’t want to change that and I respect that. I respect the way that he plays the game … his type of enthusiasm and his ability to raise fans out of their seats. That’s a special gift and something that not very many players are able to do. But the way we’re coached on our team, the way our team is structured, that’s not what were looking for. We’re looking for a steady type of defenceman that makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away. Shea fits that bill perfectly.”

 

 

It also helps that he makes 1.2m less against the cap, or say an Ales Hemsky signing. 

 

But no, it was about egos....and now broken hearts apparently 

 

Boldfaced part: this is exactly what Subban did for Nashville.

 

That's why the trade was so f**king stupid.

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Nice plug there guy

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4 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

Nice plug there guy

 

I don't mind a Habs-related plug, but not on the exact same plug on every single frigging thread. Jeez.

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13 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Still waiting for the benefit for the Habs. 

All I can say is that both teams did better last season than the season before. We can say Carey Price was back but that ignores all other factors and oversimplifies things. I'll be generous with these timeframes and say that half the year, people thought the Habs clearly won the trade and half the year people thought Nashville won the trade. It'll never end.

 

41 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Boldfaced part: this is exactly what Subban did for Nashville.

 

That's why the trade was so f**king stupid.

Subban could have been treated better by the coaching staff on the Habs but Nashville had the luxury of using Subban the way they did because they had 3 other relatively elite and offensively gifted defensemen. I don't think Subban could have been a purely shutdown defenseman on the Habs even if we wanted him to be.

 

It's also likely that the trade made him introspect and realize he had do to some things better (differently), along with Laviolette aiding him through the process. 

 

I'm sorry, but people were complaining that we lost the most electrifying player since Guy Lafleur and now it's being argued that the trade was stupid because he's turned into a shut down defenseman and proven he was capable. IF he were to have been turned into that on the Habs, people would have crucified our coach for trying to change him. It's a lose-lose however you look at it for some.

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There is no case for making the Subban trade that survives scrutiny. It did not make us a better team than we were when we had Subban (and Price). Period. Therefore it was a pointless lateral move that hurt the club by aging its core significantly. As for the justification that Subban was 'not a leader,' had 'bad character,' and was 'too risky,' those were all decisively disproven by the fact that his team - on which he played a huge role - came within one game of the Cup.

 

The point is, there was no point to the trade. All it did was make us older. It didn't even improve our cap situation since we are now tied into an $8 million deal for the next decade for a player who is already 32. This seems obvious to me, but I guess folks are just too upset at the thought that the Habs screwed up yet another blockbuster that they work themselves into pretzels trying to deny it.

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Subban man crushes run deep.

2 hours ago, illWill said:

It also helps that he makes 1.2m less against the cap, or say an Ales Hemsky signing. 

 

But no, it was about egos....and now broken hearts apparently 

 

Subban man crushes ran deep!

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

There is no case for making the Subban trade that survives scrutiny. It did not make us a better team than we were when we had Subban (and Price). Period. Therefore it was a pointless lateral move that hurt the club by aging its core significantly. As for the justification that Subban was 'not a leader,' had 'bad character,' and was 'too risky,' those were all decisively disproven by the fact that his team - on which he played a huge role - came within one game of the Cup.

 

The point is, there was no point to the trade. All it did was make us older. It didn't even improve our cap situation since we are now tied into an $8 million deal for the next decade for a player who is already 32. This seems obvious to me, but I guess folks are just too upset at the thought that the Habs screwed up yet another blockbuster that they work themselves into pretzels trying to deny it.

Hey there were plenty of people to this day that still say Patrick Roy had to be traded because of how he acted and the only issue they have is with the return.  

 

You add Subban's background and non-traditional hockey player personality and demeanor, and I'm not surprised that a lot of habs fans liked the move.

 

having said that two things frustrate me when debating with those that support the trade.

1) arguement that the habs did better this past year.  Over-looking the fact that Montreal not only were missing Price, but they were getting among the worst goaltending in the league.  You could have had doughty, Weber, Karlsson and Keith on the blue line and we still would have sucked with he goaltending we were getting and how we were coached.

2) prior to the collapse last year, Price was a vezina shoe-in and Subban a Norris favourite.  Than the collapse happened and MB cited a lack of leadership as the reason (not goaltending or poor coaching decisions).   Yet, even after getting the mountain man leader, the habs collapsed again, this time not as bad - because we still had Price.  But than it got to the point where everyone sucked (including Price and Weber), but this time MB finally woke and smelt the coffee beans and fired the idiotic monkey he had behind the bench.  Yet, the trade supporters cite Weber as the reason the habs were better.  His supposed mythical leadership did squat in preventing or getting the team out from a collapse similar to the previous year.  The fact that we actually had NHL goaltending and finally got rid of the monkey behind the bench was the reason we were better this year.

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18 minutes ago, nihilz said:

Subban man crushes run deep.

 

Subban man crushes ran deep!

Yesterday, heard one person who is around Habs saying Subban being gone was good for dressing room. Today a different person said situation with Subban was "untenable" and there was a serious dressing room issue.

I have heard absolutely zero people disputing that since the trade happened, is has all 100% been in-line with those recent comments. 

Some people are just idiots and think world revolves around them and being traded maybe has smartened him up somewhat?  

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4 minutes ago, DON said:

Yesterday, heard one person who is around Habs saying Subban being gone was good for dressing room. Today a different person said situation with Subban was "untenable" and there was a serious dressing room issue.

I have heard absolutely zero people disputing that since the trade happened, is has all 100% been in-line with those recent comments. 

Some people are just idiots and think world revolves around them and being traded maybe has smartened him up somewhat?  

Was it your uncle mike?

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