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Habsfan1989

Bouillon named player development coach

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Habsfan1989    5

What he has to work with in the system 

 

nhl ready players

Lw-0 ready

Rw-0 ready

C-0 ready

G-0 ready

 

maybe a year or two away

mccarron, rose, Hudon, juulsen 

 

2+ years away

nygren, audette, Lernout,reway 

Lindgren 

 

not that much to work with. 

 

 

 

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Meller93    121

In my opinion Hudon is NHL ready. McCarron JDLR are on the cusp, Lernout not too far behind, but I see him as a 6/7th as an nhler.

 

Juulsen needs a season in the minors.

 

definitely not a whole lot to work with, but at least there's some change in the development team, even if Boullion was in a similar role before.

 

 

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Habsfan1989    5

Yeah I been saying from day 1 this is my biggest issue with the organization. I don't mind if we don't sign the sexy names come July 1st or make the big trades at the deadline if we had young impact full players ready for full time NHL roster spots. But we don't, which is why we need to sign the bigger names July 1st but we never do.

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Stogey24    223
25 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

What he has to work with in the system 

 

nhl ready players

Lw-0 ready

Rw-0 ready

C-0 ready

G-0 ready

 

maybe a year or two away

mccarron, rose, Hudon, juulsen 

 

2+ years away

nygren, audette, Lernout,reway 

Lindgren 

 

not that much to work with. 

 

 

 

Nygren?

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14 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

Yeah I been saying from day 1 this is my biggest issue with the organization. I don't mind if we don't sign the sexy names come July 1st or make the big trades at the deadline if we had young impact full players ready for full time NHL roster spots. But we don't, which is why we need to sign the bigger names July 1st but we never do.

 

This is the fundamental problem with Bergevin. We can argue over the NHL moves all we want, but the organization is rotting from within.

 

Always liked Beef Bouillon, and if he can instill the kind of determination and mental toughness that allowed him to carve out a long career despite his stature and limitations as a player, everyone will be better for it.

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Commandant    601
1 hour ago, Habsfan1989 said:

What he has to work with in the system 

 

nhl ready players

Lw-0 ready

Rw-0 ready

C-0 ready

G-0 ready

 

maybe a year or two away

mccarron, rose, Hudon, juulsen 

 

2+ years away

nygren, audette, Lernout,reway 

Lindgren 

 

not that much to work with. 

 

 

 

 

WHAT?  How is lindgren 2+ years away?

 

Ready now.... Hudon, DLR, 

 

Ready now but won't be on the roster cause no room.... Lindgren. 

 

Close... McCarron

 

1 year away, or 2 depending on how it goes.... Scherback, Lernout, Juulsen, Reway, 

 

2+ years away Mete, Bitten, McNiven, Poehling, and the rest of the 2017 draft class

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dlbalr    651

The rest of the changes beyond Bouillon getting an actual title (he basically has been working for them for a year already):

 

- Rob Ramage: Director of Player Development (previously Player Development Coach)

- Martin Lapointe: Director of Player Personnel (previously Director of Player Development)

- Vincent Riendeau: Director of Goalie Development, pro scout (previously Assistant GM with St. John's)

- Trevor Timmins: Now an Assistant GM, loses the Director of Player Personnel title

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dreegking    2
6 hours ago, Habsfan1989 said:

What he has to work with in the system 

 

nhl ready players

Lw-0 ready

Rw-0 ready

C-0 ready

G-0 ready

 

maybe a year or two away

mccarron, rose, Hudon, juulsen 

 

2+ years away

nygren, audette, Lernout,reway 

Lindgren 

 

not that much to work with. 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Habsfan1989 said:

What he has to work with in the system 

 

nhl ready players

Lw-0 ready

Rw-0 ready

C-0 ready

G-0 ready

 

maybe a year or two away

mccarron, rose, Hudon, juulsen 

 

2+ years away

nygren, audette, Lernout,reway 

Lindgren 

 

not that much to work with. 

 

 

 

Lame. Good job stirring the pot. ;)

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Link67    98
3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

The rest of the changes beyond Bouillon getting an actual title (he basically has been working for them for a year already):

 

- Rob Ramage: Director of Player Development (previously Player Development Coach)

- Martin Lapointe: Director of Player Personnel (previously Director of Player Development)

- Vincent Riendeau: Director of Goalie Development, pro scout (previously Assistant GM with St. John's)

- Trevor Timmins: Now an Assistant GM, loses the Director of Player Personnel title

 

 

I like the idea of having Boullion in with the kids pushing them and shaping them into pros using the same guidelines he used himself. Everyone else getting promotions despite being part of the very lacking player development situation of the last 5 years is very questionable at best.

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DON    12

Always liked Frankie.

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habs rule    392
4 hours ago, dlbalr said:

The rest of the changes beyond Bouillon getting an actual title (he basically has been working for them for a year already):

 

- Rob Ramage: Director of Player Development (previously Player Development Coach)

- Martin Lapointe: Director of Player Personnel (previously Director of Player Development)

- Vincent Riendeau: Director of Goalie Development, pro scout (previously Assistant GM with St. John's)

- Trevor Timmins: Now an Assistant GM, loses the Director of Player Personnel title

Amazing. Maybe Markdown thinks this is baseball where you  can screw up 75% of the time and still be considered pretty good.

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dlbalr    651
53 minutes ago, Link67 said:

I like the idea of having Boullion in with the kids pushing them and shaping them into pros using the same guidelines he used himself. Everyone else getting promotions despite being part of the very lacking player development situation of the last 5 years is very questionable at best.

 

How many of these are really promotions though versus just changing hats?  Lapointe goes from dealing with prospects to pro players.  Riendeau was already working with the goalies, now he goes from an AGM title to a scout.  Timmins moves a bit more off the development side (though will still run the draft) to more of an administrative one.  Ramage (who hasn't been there long) is really the only one who gets any real sort of promotion.

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Link67    98
12 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

How many of these are really promotions though versus just changing hats?  Lapointe goes from dealing with prospects to pro players.  Riendeau was already working with the goalies, now he goes from an AGM title to a scout.  Timmins moves a bit more off the development side (though will still run the draft) to more of an administrative one.  Ramage (who hasn't been there long) is really the only one who gets any real sort of promotion.

 

I suppose when you out it like that

 

but instead of hat shuffling, I'd rather see one of them made a sacrificial lamb to send a message across the board to this development staff that there is still a bit of patience left for them, but not that much. Regardless if people can argue how its the nature of the beast and some guys pan out some don't, a lack of success in any work place for 5 years usually has backlash. Shuffling them around doesn't put the pressure on anyone, it just buys them more time to potentially do things the same way as before with potentially the same results.

 

Internally it is the one area in this organization that is suffering the most, to not give someone the axe yet for it is confusing to say the least. They gotta start treating this Development area like the Spartans do, "Here in Sparta, every man is responsible for the words of his voice" well in this case it should be "Here in Montreal, every man is responsible for the success or failure of his department". There is failure all over the Player Development front, with little success, yet not a single person has been Kicked into an endless hole for it.

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hab29RETIRED    161
40 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

How many of these are really promotions though versus just changing hats?  Lapointe goes from dealing with prospects to pro players.  Riendeau was already working with the goalies, now he goes from an AGM title to a scout.  Timmins moves a bit more off the development side (though will still run the draft) to more of an administrative one.  Ramage (who hasn't been there long) is really the only one who gets any real sort of promotion.

The question us, how well have our prospects progressed to warrant lapointe still being around and now working with pros?

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8 hours ago, Habsfan1989 said:

 not that much to work with. 

You would have got less blow back if you said there was nobody top 6/top 4 ready. 

 

Guys like DLR, Hudon, McCarron, they can play in the bottom six just fine. This organization wouldn't be signing the likes of Hemsky and Holland if they had confidence in their AHLers. 

 

It is pretty funny that centre has been a weakness since 2012 and the organization has almost no natural centres in the system.

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dlbalr    651
46 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The question us, how well have our prospects progressed to warrant lapointe still being around and now working with pros?

 

Certainly a fair question.  However, Bergevin has publicly stated that he's happy with the state of the player development (further evidenced by the Lefebvre extension) so if he's happy with it, why would he make a change?  (I disagree that the development has been strong but if Bergevin is content with it, he's not going to start letting people in that area go.)

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Habsfan1989    5
40 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

You would have got less blow back if you said there was nobody top 6/top 4 ready. 

 

Guys like DLR, Hudon, McCarron, they can play in the bottom six just fine. This organization wouldn't be signing the likes of Hemsky and Holland if they had confidence in their AHLers. 

 

It is pretty funny that centre has been a weakness since 2012 and the organization has almost no natural centres in the system.

What's even more mind blowing is all the elite centers that we have passed on in the draft that we could of drafted over the years, The names are crazy. We just don't address our needs at the draft and keep drafting project players in the 1st rounds that could be pick in the later rounds. Since our development is bad they never pan out. 

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DON    12
16 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

 We just don't address our needs at the draft and keep drafting project players in the 1st rounds that could be pick in the later rounds. 

Project players in 1st round? Leblanc, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, Scherbak, Juulsen, Poehling, Beaulieu, Tinordi, McCarron could of been had in later rounds? If you mean 2nd round, that is fair for some of them. Only two I didn't like (both are very large).

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Habsfan1989    5
57 minutes ago, DON said:

Project players in 1st round? Leblanc, Galchenyuk, Sergachev, Scherbak, Juulsen, Poehling, Beaulieu, Tinordi, McCarron could of been had in later rounds? If you mean 2nd round, that is fair for some of them. Only two I didn't like (both are very large).

2003 draft we took kostitsyn over a center passed on carter, getzlaf, kesler, richards, that's round 1. 

 

Round 2 we took urquhart. Passed on Bergeron 

 

2004 draft we took chipchura passed on zajac

 

2006 draft we took fischer passed on giroux, 

2009 draft we drafted Leblanc to make the fans happy. Passed on johansson

 

2010 draft we took tinordi. Passed on kuznetsov, Nelson 

 

for a organization that needs a center and says there not there in the spots we pick at in the draft, we sure passed on a lot. This is all when bob was GM. To early tell on the picks with MB.

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Link67    98
1 hour ago, Habsfan1989 said:

2003 draft we took kostitsyn over a center passed on carter, getzlaf, kesler, richards, that's round 1. 

 

Round 2 we took urquhart. Passed on Bergeron 

 

2004 draft we took chipchura passed on zajac

 

2006 draft we took fischer passed on giroux, 

2009 draft we drafted Leblanc to make the fans happy. Passed on johansson

 

2010 draft we took tinordi. Passed on kuznetsov, Nelson 

 

for a organization that needs a center and says there not there in the spots we pick at in the draft, we sure passed on a lot. This is all when bob was GM. To early tell on the picks with MB.

 

I'm no fan of the development staff, but analyzing drafts like this is very unfair and easy to draw a conclusion of complete incompetence.

 

You cannot, under any circumstance use 20/20 hindsight like this to bash a teams drafting years down the road, it is simply not valid. There is one major flaw to this point and argument as there is every time someone brings it up like this. We, along with 28 other teams passed on those guys, its not like the team right after us was like "you idiots" and picked the players you are talking about immediately. 28 made the same mistake, and the truth is none of the 28 realize at the time it is a mistake, and the 1 team who got it right, doesn't realize it is going to be a home run player like it is, otherwise they would pick him first, as soon as they could.

 

You could do what you just did for every draft, and still the result would be 98% of the league was wrong about so and so, and are incompetent, fire them all because the job of drafting 17 year olds is very simple and straight forward. By this logic teams would be completely overhauling their drafting staff every 3 years because you could absolutely throw every team under the bus by analyzing each draft like this. The best way and only way to determine the quality level of a drafting crew is to see how many NHL regulars they draft over the course of a 5 year window. In our case 6 - 10 years ago looks a heck of a lot better than the last 5 years. And that, in my opinion is a trend that should not be allowed to continue. Either you keep picking the wrong kids or you keep developing them poorly, but either way someone needs to be held accountable, and someone needs to pay the price for it at some point.

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Habsfan1989    5
25 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

I'm no fan of the development staff, but analyzing drafts like this is very unfair and easy to draw a conclusion of complete incompetence.

 

You cannot, under any circumstance use 20/20 hindsight like this to bash a teams drafting years down the road, it is simply not valid. There is one major flaw to this point and argument as there is every time someone brings it up like this. We, along with 28 other teams passed on those guys, its not like the team right after us was like "you idiots" and picked the players you are talking about immediately. 28 made the same mistake, and the truth is none of the 28 realize at the time it is a mistake, and the 1 team who got it right, doesn't realize it is going to be a home run player like it is, otherwise they would pick him first, as soon as they could.

 

You could do what you just did for every draft, and still the result would be 98% of the league was wrong about so and so, and are incompetent, fire them all because the job of drafting 17 year olds is very simple and straight forward. By this logic teams would be completely overhauling their drafting staff every 3 years because you could absolutely throw every team under the bus by analyzing each draft like this. The best way and only way to determine the quality level of a drafting crew is to see how many NHL regulars they draft over the course of a 5 year window. In our case 6 - 10 years ago looks a heck of a lot better than the last 5 years. And that, in my opinion is a trend that should not be allowed to continue. Either you keep picking the wrong kids or you keep developing them poorly, but either way someone needs to be held accountable, and someone needs to pay the price for it at some point.

My point I am trying to make is this..... for an organization that's needed centers they were there to be had when we drafted, but for some reason we went in a different direction. So who do you point the finger at? GM? Scouts ? Timmins? This organization has ignored the center potions for the past 20 years why? It's what hunts us tell this day.

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hab29RETIRED    161
36 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

I'm no fan of the development staff, but analyzing drafts like this is very unfair and easy to draw a conclusion of complete incompetence.

 

You cannot, under any circumstance use 20/20 hindsight like this to bash a teams drafting years down the road, it is simply not valid. There is one major flaw to this point and argument as there is every time someone brings it up like this. We, along with 28 other teams passed on those guys, its not like the team right after us was like "you idiots" and picked the players you are talking about immediately. 28 made the same mistake, and the truth is none of the 28 realize at the time it is a mistake, and the 1 team who got it right, doesn't realize it is going to be a home run player like it is, otherwise they would pick him first, as soon as they could.

 

You could do what you just did for every draft, and still the result would be 98% of the league was wrong about so and so, and are incompetent, fire them all because the job of drafting 17 year olds is very simple and straight forward. By this logic teams would be completely overhauling their drafting staff every 3 years because you could absolutely throw every team under the bus by analyzing each draft like this. The best way and only way to determine the quality level of a drafting crew is to see how many NHL regulars they draft over the course of a 5 year window. In our case 6 - 10 years ago looks a heck of a lot better than the last 5 years. And that, in my opinion is a trend that should not be allowed to continue. Either you keep picking the wrong kids or you keep developing them poorly, but either way someone needs to be held accountable, and someone needs to pay the price for it at some point.

For the most part I agree with you about using hindsight to evaluate draft picks.  But there were 5 specific drafts where our selections made zero sense when they were made.

 

2003:  I wanted getzlaf, my brother wanted parise.  There were so many players available in that draft, but IMO, gezlaf was the guy we had been dying for a looong time and being in Calgary, I had the opportunity to see him more.  But the Habs got cute and went with a guy who was considered extremely talented, but there were a lot of health question marks.  You don't gamble that early in the draft.  Which is something they did a lot of!!!

 

2006: fisher wasn't even rated in the first 2 rounds.  Another gamble pick early in the draft.  Reminded me about the bruins a few years back when they had 3 back to back picks and went of the board.  This was also an issue with the flames during the same time period.  They had one gamble (Morris) that paid off, but they had a lot more misses.

 

2009  if that draft wasn't in Montreal, I can't see us taking Leblanc.  We needed size and scoring.  Kreider was available when wewere starving for a power forward.  Instead we took the local kid who was rated high, but had a slight frame and needed to work on his skating.  I could see taking a big centre who needed to work on his skating.  But a guy who was around 170-175lb, really?????

 

2010: tinordi.  A complete bloodline pick - probably because his father played for Gainey.  Would have been a good pick in the 1990's (probably still second round), but not the type of dman that you should be picking considered where the game had gone post lockout

 

2013:  Mccaron.. this was the maybe he'll be a lucic pick,but without the scoring to back up the reason to pick him.  I know other teams were also interested, but should have let someone else waste the pick on him.

 

the other pick that I hated that has worked out well was Carey Price.  I wanted kopitar, reason he probably slipped was because he wasnt from a traditional hockey country.  I had nothing against Price, I just don't think you need to pick a goalie with a top 5 pick.  Most of today's elite goalies were drafted after the 2nd round.  It's much harder getting a top line forward or a top pair D later.  Having said that, it sounded like the Habs were considering Stall (which would have been bad), or Brule (which would have been a disaster)!!  I guess we can be thankful that draft wasn't in Montreal!!!!

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Commandant    601

Brule was from Vancouver, what would a draft being in Montreal have to do with picking him. 

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hab29RETIRED    161
2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Brule was from Vancouver, what would a draft being in Montreal have to do with picking him. 

I thought he was French and that's why Columbus thought we would take him

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Commandant    601

Columbus thought we would take him cause everyone was saying that draft was 

 

Crosby

 

then 4 players

 

then everyone else

 

 

in terms of tiers... so when we took Price it was "off the board"

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