Habsfan1989

5 years from now this team will need a rebuild.. Will fans and media allow it done the right way??

318 posts in this topic

I say 5 years because that's when price turns 34. That's the age were I think it would be time to part ways with him and rebuild this team. You can trade him before he is to old and get a good return for him. That's if he is still a good goaltender at this time.

 

the blue print to rebuild in the NHL is to get as much top draft picks as you can by finishing in the bottom or dead last for about 3-4 years, and get as much young good talent as you can.

 

but when the time comes would fans and the media allow this in Montreal? I think the fans will, but not sure about the media in Montreal. We all know how they think they run the team.

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I feel like it has a decent chance of happening. This regime seems very conscious of a 3-4 year window to win now, and if they don't get us a cup or at least a finals appearance once that's passed (or maybe even slightly before) I think its likely they get their walking papers. Usually there's a mandate for an incoming GM to reverse some of the predecessors tendencies and weaknesses. Like when Guathier was fired they wanted a GM that would be more media friendly. Enter mr. prankster, young and friendly Marc Bergevin.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I think we can all agree Marc Bergevin's weakness has been the lack of player development under his watch. So I could see his successor being mandated to reverse it

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Im not sure we need a rebuild if the team is handled correctly.

If Drouin, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen stays that is 4 young good players. Keep Price his whole contract and we have some good cornerstones. Problem is if MB can turn a corner and start to really handle this team better. Better development of the prospects, stop signing bottom liners to crazy money and somehow manage to fix the D and C positions.

Maybe the best that can happen is if we have a losing season and MB is fired before he start doing idiotic trades to try and save his job. And then we are seller at the deadline. Buyers and the ufa and draft.

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Why is Price going to be too old at 34?

 

Was Brodeur? Hasek? Roy? Lundqvist? Luongo? too old at that age. 

 

Goalies last longer than other positions. 

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8 hours ago, Habsfan1989 said:

 

but when the time comes would fans and the media allow this in Montreal? I think the fans will, but not sure about the media in Montreal. We all know how they think they run the team.

What!!! The fans would accept missing playoffs for several years in a row? That is kookyiest idea I have heard in a while, they would f'in riot and media and politicians would be egging them on, pushing for boycott of Molson beer and Habs GM would need bodyguards, bulletproof limo and pressbox seat.:tigi:

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2 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Im not sure we need a rebuild if the team is handled correctly.

If Drouin, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen stays that is 4 young good players. Keep Price his whole contract and we have some good cornerstones. Problem is if MB can turn a corner and start to really handle this team better. Better development of the prospects, stop signing bottom liners to crazy money and somehow manage to fix the D and C positions.

Maybe the best that can happen is if we have a losing season and MB is fired before he start doing idiotic trades to try and save his job. And then we are seller at the deadline. Buyers and the ufa and draft.

 

Let's just take the 5-year timeline as accurate for the sake of argument. It's not too late to escape the dreaded rebuild IF Bergevin can completely turn around his regime's horrible record of player development. Five years is enough time to draft and develop the next generation. Doing so in a fashion sufficient to make the future core a contending core will require a truly elite ability to find gems outside the first round (Gallagher in Round 5, Subban in Round 2 - these are the sort of results you need) and to develop those guys so that they maximize their potential.

 

There is absolutely zero reason to think Bergevin can do this. On the other hand, the law of averages suggests that his next five years of player development can't possibly be as bad or worse than his previous five. His herd of bum-buddies may well have learned something from their endless mistakes; it is likely, therefore, that their performance may evolve from a D-minus to a C. That outcome would avoid total disaster but would not be sufficient to make the future Habs contenders. I really doubt that a sudden lurch to excellence is conceivable. After all, the GM has made it exquisitely clear that excellence is not required in this organization.

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Has there ever been a true tear down and rebuild? Not in last 30 years anyways. There's no reason to believe it'll happen in the future.

 

 

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1 hour ago, kaos said:

Has there ever been a true tear down and rebuild? Not in last 30 years anyways. There's no reason to believe it'll happen in the future.

 

 

 

Kind of amazing that the Houle years somehow managed to avoid constituting a true 'tank job' despite catastrophic incompetence. But it's true. We've had occasional years where we picked in the top-10 and once or twice in the top-5, but have never had that sustained run of top-tier draft position that generally defines a rebuild. You probably have to go all the way back to Frank Selke.

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Team needs a rebuild now. It wasn't good enough at its peak in 2014-2015 and it's only gotten worse. The defense is a billion years old.

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I wanted a rebuild next year. I don't think this core, this team, is good enough to compete for a Cup.

 

I think people will be more than fine accepting a rebuild. Pittsburgh has back to back Cups, Toronto looks full of life with Matthews. Lafreniere will probably be a first overall pick and Montreal not being bad enough to get him will be the talk around Quebec. Bergevin won't be smart like Pollock and land the pick while still being good. There will be a fervor to acquire top stars, and the only way to go will be a tank.

 

And if Toronto makes the ECF any time soon, that will increase. 

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8 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I wanted a rebuild next year. I don't think this core, this team, is good enough to compete for a Cup.

 

I think people will be more than fine accepting a rebuild. Pittsburgh has back to back Cups, Toronto looks full of life with Matthews. Lafreniere will probably be a first overall pick and Montreal not being bad enough to get him will be the talk around Quebec. Bergevin won't be smart like Pollock and land the pick while still being good. There will be a fervor to acquire top stars, and the only way to go will be a tank.

 

And if Toronto makes the ECF any time soon, that will increase. 

 

We're not winning the Cup, no, unless a miracle run happens. But no team starts a rebuild with a club that is still good enough to finish in the top-10 and to win a round or two, and has its core players still in their prime. The rebuild next year ain't happening, and wouldn't happen under any management team in the game.

 

Drouin and Galy are the kind of players you generally land with a 'tank job,' so I'm not sure that pointing to other teams' stars and saying 'we can have this if we just tank' is really going to be convincing.

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18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

We're not winning the Cup, no, unless a miracle run happens. But no team starts a rebuild with a club that is still good enough to finish in the top-10 and to win a round or two, and has its core players still in their prime. The rebuild next year ain't happening, and wouldn't happen under any management team in the game.

 

Drouin and Galy are the kind of players you generally land with a 'tank job,' so I'm not sure that pointing to other teams' stars and saying 'we can have this if we just tank' is really going to be convincing.

I agree that we couldn't justify a complete rebuild at this time and there is no way current management would even consider it.

 

Having said that, we went from having an extremely strong core and promise with the drafting of Sergechev to an old aging defence core that is not built  for today's game.  I think in two years, we will probably be forced to rebuild - unless MB pulls a rabbit out of his hat and gets us a young elite puck moving dman - that won't cost as galchenyuk AND one of galchenyuk or Drouin fill the #1 centre hole.  I just can't us seeeing us rebuilding with MB as GM.  

 

I think in another year or two we will be a bubble team.  i think others in our conference are improving (Toronto, TBL and FLA).  They will all be stronger and I think in another year BUF will also be a playoff team.  So unless we improve our D and some prospects (schrebak, lekohnan, reway) progress significantly, I can't see us being a playoff team in two years.  I also can't see galchenyuk being here long term.  So unless he is moved for a forward and dman, our offence will also be weaker.  I think we could even fall out of the playoff picture this year if Florida and buffalo make huge strides (I think TBL is a lock to return to the playoffs), in which case MB may be fired - I still think he still has 2 years from Molson - probably one of the 5 worst owners in the league (which he proved on how he handled the cunneyworth situation).

 

 

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Why would you believe in a year we will be a bubble team?

-We are just entering our goalie's prime years in Carey Price who happens to be one of the best in the biz (not to mention a great group behind him in Lindgren, McNievens, Primeau

 

-We have Drouin, Galchenyuk, Danault, Lehkonen, Shaw, Gallagher all 25 and under

Who actually thinks at least 4 of these 6 guys will not be approving ?

- we added 7 prospects in this years draft  to go with

Hudon, McCarron, Juulsen, Mete, Bitten, Scherbak, Addison  (all quality prospects) with potential sleepers

-we have 9 picks next year (4 in the 1st two rounds)** conditional on TB

-we are 10 million under the cap still (give or take) plus 6mil more if you count plex (16 million)

- icing a very competitive AHL Laval Rocket team this year as well as having the team so close to home!

 

Now, im not saying everything is perfect,

-Our defence is starting to age and in their prime years with most (if not all) 28+ years old and over

-We lack a perennial 1C but optimistic Danault can really take another foot forward from his first full season in the league in the interim

-the question of who will be partnering Weber continues to be a discussion (is Markov signing) So that will continue to be a focus moving forward in the coming years. 

-prospect development in the AHL needs contineous improvement

-how will the 16 draft picks from 2017 and future 2018 develop

 

Im very anxious to see how we spend this 10M as well as plex's 6M cap space next year before i would claim anything...

 

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4 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Why would you believe in a year we will be a bubble team?

-We are just entering our goalie's prime years in Carey Price who happens to be one of the best in the biz (not to mention a great group behind him in Lindgren, McNievens, Primeau

 

-We have Drouin, Galchenyuk, Danault, Lehkonen, Shaw, Gallagher all 25 and under

Who actually thinks at least 4 of these 6 guys will not be approving ?

- we added 7 prospects in this years draft  to go with

Hudon, McCarron, Juulsen, Mete, Bitten, Scherbak, Addison  (all quality prospects) with potential sleepers

-we have 9 picks next year (4 in the 1st two rounds)** conditional on TB

-we are 10 million under the cap still (give or take) plus 6mil more if you count plex (16 million)

- icing a very competitive AHL Laval Rocket team this year as well as having the team so close to home!

 

Now, im not saying everything is perfect,

-Our defence is starting to age and in their prime years with most (if not all) 28+ years old and over

-We lack a perennial 1C but optimistic Danault can really take another foot forward from his first full season in the league in the interim

-the question of who will be partnering Weber continues to be a discussion (is Markov signing) So that will continue to be a focus moving forward in the coming years. 

-prospect development in the AHL needs contineous improvement

-how will the 16 draft picks from 2017 and future 2018 develop

 

Im very anxious to see how we spend this 10M as well as plex's 6M cap space next year before i would claim anything...

 

You can take $4M of Plekanec salary and add it to Prices salary increase starting next year. 

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I wanted a rebuild next year. I don't think this core, this team, is good enough to compete for a Cup.

 

I think people will be more than fine accepting a rebuild. Pittsburgh has back to back Cups, Toronto looks full of life with Matthews. Lafreniere will probably be a first overall pick and Montreal not being bad enough to get him will be the talk around Quebec. Bergevin won't be smart like Pollock and land the pick while still being good. There will be a fervor to acquire top stars, and the only way to go will be a tank.

 

And if Toronto makes the ECF any time soon, that will increase. 

I Love how everyone fails to realize that TORONTO HAS BEEN SHIT for 20 years and have been rebuilding for pretty much just as long! Yay they finally got some picks right in Marner, Matthews, Nylander! I would never ever ever wanna be completely irrelevant in the NHL for as long as Toronto, Buffalo, Edmonton, Columbus, Winn-Atlanta etc. 

Clearly not everyone can be as lucky as CHI and Pitt and experience very few rebuild years and effectively come out of it with Stanley Cups...

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4 minutes ago, kaos said:

You can take $4M of Plekanec salary and add it to Prices salary increase starting next year. 

Fair enough but 12M  is still over 15% of the salary cap yet to be spent!

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22 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Fair enough but 12M  is still over 15% of the salary cap yet to be spent!

So what good does that do when there are no UFA to spend it on?

Your defence is arguably worse than it was last year when you lost in the 1st round of the playoffs 

Your team has two #3 and two #4 centres.

And the prospect capital to purchase above required upgrades is zilch!!!

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

But no team starts a rebuild with a club that is still good enough to finish in the top-10 and to win a round or two, and has its core players still in their prime. The rebuild next year ain't happening, and wouldn't happen under any management team in the game.

 

My hope was Price walked, Bergevin was fired, and Molson hired someone to clear out the teams veterans and valuable assets to go for a full rebuild. The moment Price signed I knew a rebuild next year was dead. 

 

27 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I Love how everyone fails to realize that TORONTO HAS BEEN SHIT for 20 years and have been rebuilding for pretty much just as long! Yay they finally got some picks right in Marner, Matthews, Nylander! I would never ever ever wanna be completely irrelevant in the NHL for as long as Toronto, Buffalo, Edmonton, Columbus, Winn-Atlanta etc. 

Clearly not everyone can be as lucky as CHI and Pitt and experience very few rebuild years and effectively come out of it with Stanley Cups...

 

Toronto's rebuild didn't really start until Nonis was fired. They were shit but they were shit while attempting to compete. Prior to Nonis being fired they talked about rebuild but then made the playoffs in 2013 and Nonis thought there was no need for a rebuild and went all in on David Clarkson. Then it was clear a rebuild was necessary. Leafs have sucked for years but the rebuild didn't start until Shanahan came aboard.

 

Also if you gave me a choice between what we've had now and what the Washington Capitals have gone through (a complete rebuild that hasn't got past the second round) I'd take the Caps. At least that feels like going all in. Even last season, which everyone said was a commitment to going, "All In" with trading for Weber, still felt like Bergevin not ready to jump into the deep end and go for it. Right now this season really feels like he's going to wait for next summer to try his hand at a centre, hence all the cap space (next year has the possibility of Koivu, Tavares, Stastny, etc. as free agents.)

 

And ummm Montreal has pretty much been irrelevant since 1993. A couple division wins and two ECFs does not make a team relevant. Toronto has pretty much had the same results in the past 20 years. 

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

 

 

And ummm Montreal has pretty much been irrelevant since 1993. A couple division wins and two ECFs does not make a team relevant. Toronto has pretty much had the same results in the past 20 years. 

 

The Habs are right now just about where the Leafs were in the Pat Quinn years. So yes, you're right.

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Wow, -3 for that post? People are in denial on this forum 

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2 hours ago, kaos said:

So what good does that do when there are no UFA to spend it on?

Your defence is arguably worse than it was last year when you lost in the 1st round of the playoffs 

Your team has two #3 and two #4 centres.

And the prospect capital to purchase above required upgrades is zilch!!!

-cap space in a "cap strapped world" is worth Gold. 

-so you agree our defence is downgraded with out Markov re-signed and work needs to be done.. i think we can agree if markov signs our defence in the short term is better. (jerabek will be interesting try out)

-so you agree we need a C as well

-so you agree we need to work on a minor team program

 

 

i dont believe this constitutes a rebuild in 1-5 years...

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5 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

Team needs a rebuild now. It wasn't good enough at its peak in 2014-2015 and it's only gotten worse. The defense is a billion years old.

 

I must have missed the memo when late 20's became old for defencemen.  As things stand, the ages of the defence is as follows:

 

Weber - 31

Schlemko - 30

Petry - 29

Benn - 29

Alzner - 28

Jerabek - 26

Davidson - 25

Morrow - 24

 

None of them are over the hill or even close to it for that matter.  Bringing Markov back would make the average age a lot older but the fact remains that their other core defenders aren't exactly long in the tooth here.

 

5 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I think people will be more than fine accepting a rebuild. Pittsburgh has back to back Cups, Toronto looks full of life with Matthews. Lafreniere will probably be a first overall pick and Montreal not being bad enough to get him will be the talk around Quebec. Bergevin won't be smart like Pollock and land the pick while still being good. There will be a fervor to acquire top stars, and the only way to go will be a tank.

 

 

When was the last time a team traded for a projected future number one pick while still being good?  When was the last time a team dealt away a projected future number one pick period?  (Or a pick that was expected to be even top-5?  The Kessel trade is a somewhat recent example but no one really expected the Leafs to be as bad as they were that year at the time the trade was made.)  Draft picks are worth a whole lot more than they were 40, 50 years ago; no GM is making that kind of deal.  That's a pretty tough standard to hold Bergevin or any GM to, following the model of a trade that happened once a couple of generations ago.

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19 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

Wow, -3 for that post? People are in denial on this forum 

 

forgive me if i believe we will not need a rebuild in 5 years and that we are a not a bubble team as soon as this year or next as some are portraying.

Instead, i believe, we will most likely fight for the division again next year, probably the conference for more reasons then just a dominant Carey Price (especially with a re-signed Markov and another 3/4M to play with this year and 12M next year give or take) 

Of course we can always add another major 10M upgrade by trade... who know,s, im not MB or his staff.

 

All i know is we can take on salary... thats significant, we have 9 picks next year which is also significant, and we do have some young assets which is also significant.

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

Wow, -3 for that post? People are in denial on this forum 

Did you read what he wrote?

Hoped Price walked and team imploded...dosent get anymore out to lunch than that.:crazy:

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5 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

My hope was Price walked, Bergevin was fired, and Molson hired someone to clear out the teams veterans and valuable assets to go for a full rebuild. The moment Price signed I knew a rebuild next year was dead. 

 

 

Toronto's rebuild didn't really start until Nonis was fired. They were shit but they were shit while attempting to compete. Prior to Nonis being fired they talked about rebuild but then made the playoffs in 2013 and Nonis thought there was no need for a rebuild and went all in on David Clarkson. Then it was clear a rebuild was necessary. Leafs have sucked for years but the rebuild didn't start until Shanahan came aboard.

 

Also if you gave me a choice between what we've had now and what the Washington Capitals have gone through (a complete rebuild that hasn't got past the second round) I'd take the Caps. At least that feels like going all in. Even last season, which everyone said was a commitment to going, "All In" with trading for Weber, still felt like Bergevin not ready to jump into the deep end and go for it. Right now this season really feels like he's going to wait for next summer to try his hand at a centre, hence all the cap space (next year has the possibility of Koivu, Tavares, Stastny, etc. as free agents.)

 

And ummm Montreal has pretty much been irrelevant since 1993. A couple division wins and two ECFs does not make a team relevant. Toronto has pretty much had the same results in the past 20 years. 

I think 6 of the last 10 picks the leafs of had have been in the top 10 alone. if your a bottom feeder consistently, you are in a rebuild... because well your at the bottom and need to build.

you wanted price to walk? Are you hab fan or a leaf fan trolling? Cause a hab fan at least would rather we traded him for a future asset at the very least.

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