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5 years from now this team will need a rebuild.. Will fans and media allow it done the right way??

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Scott462    55

They also lost a 30 goal scorer for nothing in the expansion draft and took a swing on a guy like Dandonov who Brian is not too sure about.

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hab29RETIRED    169
2 hours ago, Scott462 said:

They also lost a 30 goal scorer for nothing in the expansion draft and took a swing on a guy like Dandonov who Brian is not too sure about.

I think they still have a better core to build with than we do. I'll take Barkov and ekblad at their age over Price and Weber any day.  

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Scott462    55
3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they still have a better core to build with than we do. I'll take Barkov and ekblad at their age over Price and Weber any day.  

 

That's fair.

 

Barkov is a centre though and Price is a goaltender.

 

I would take Price over Luongo any day and twice on Saturdays.

 

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hab29RETIRED    169
1 hour ago, Scott462 said:

 

That's fair.

 

Barkov is a centre though and Price is a goaltender.

 

I would take Price over Luongo any day and twice on Saturdays.

 

Its much harder to win if you've got a great goaltender, but mediocre centres and an average D.  I'd much rather have the stud centre and D and the next tier level for a goalie. It's much easier finding a goalie than a centre,

 

 Luongo will be gone when Barkov and ekblad reach their prime.  They just need to get someone better than Reimer - which shouldn't be that hard.

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Scott462    55
24 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Its much harder to win if you've got a great goaltender, but mediocre centres and an average D.  I'd much rather have the stud centre and D and the next tier level for a goalie. It's much easier finding a goalie than a centre,

 

 Luongo will be gone when Barkov and ekblad reach their prime.  They just need to get someone better than Reimer - which shouldn't be that hard.

 

Gotcha.

 

So you think Barkov>Galchenyuk which is fair their centres are probably better than ours. I disagree we have a mediocre D though but we can agree to disagree there. I still think Weber is a hell of a defenseman and a good supporting cast behind him.

 

I'm not too sure about being able to just find an elite goalie as something that shouldn't be that hard.

 

Also we have our own stud up and coming guys.

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4 hours ago, Scott462 said:

They also lost a 30 goal scorer for nothing in the expansion draft and took a swing on a guy like Dandonov who Brian is not too sure about.

 

...and they lost him to make sure Vegas took Reilly Smith. It's looking like they have an internal cap, per Frank Seravelli.

 

They made a lot of stupid moves last summer, and then fired Gallant over a presumed conflict of interest with the computer boys.

 

Bolland's Deal/Lawson Crouse for Johnny Capspace

Rocco Grimaldi for Reto Berra

Gudbranson for Jared McCann

 

They've thrown away quality young depth and prospects like Brandon Pirri, Quinten Howden, Logan Shaw, Kyle Rau, and Connor Brickley. When you add it up, they've swapped out 7 or 8 pieces and lost on every piece.

 

These are clearcut losses. They ended 2015-2016 as a solid playoff team that greatly overachieved, but had a great young corp that was on it's way up. Now they have an empty cupboard and a bubble team.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they still have a better core to build with than we do. I'll take Barkov and ekblad at their age over Price and Weber any day.  

 

I would too, but both of them are bandaid boys. Barkov is good to miss 20 games every year. He's already had knee problems and concussions. What a great player, though.

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xXx..CK..xXx    146

I definitely understand the skepticism about our defense. I haven't heard anyone say they wouldn't mind having Markov back this year, myself included, but at the same time, early on last season and even years before, it seemed to have been a consensus that we need to limit Markov's minutes in order to have him be effective come playoff time.

 

Now we've reached a point where many are hoping Markov will resign and in my opinion, it's never been as clear as day that he would be resigning to be our top pairing defenseman.

 

Even last year, many went into the season with hope that Beaulieu might be able to grab the bull by the horns and become a respectable #2 alongside Weber. In the back of our minds, many also held the belief that we had Sergachev in the fold to eventually become Markov's replacement.

 

As has been stated, there might be more to be done by MB, but the truth is that we either have Alzner on the top pairing, which still isn't ideal or we have Markov on the top pair, who already a few years ago, needed to have his minutes cut back. This issue never seems to be brought up anymore due to the reality that we have no other choice. Last year, I remember suggesting that Markov should play on the top pairing after Beaulieu didn't pan out and Emelin was spending a bunch of time there; but I never expected for it to continue for years to come. 

 

On the complete other side of things,

it's true that we acquired some upgrades on defense and perhaps someone we don't expect can play a bigger role than we realize. I think some of those who aren't confident with our defense may see that we have more than we expected once we actually see the players on the ice.

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Scott462    55
32 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

...and they lost him to make sure Vegas took Reilly Smith. It's looking like they have an internal cap, per Frank Seravelli.

 

They made a lot of stupid moves last summer, and then fired Gallant over a presumed conflict of interest with the computer boys.

 

Bolland's Deal/Lawson Crouse for Johnny Capspace

Rocco Grimaldi for Reto Berra

Gudbranson for Jared McCann

 

They've thrown away quality young depth and prospects like Brandon Pirri, Quinten Howden, Logan Shaw, Kyle Rau, and Connor Brickley. When you add it up, they've swapped out 7 or 8 pieces and lost on every piece.

 

These are clearcut losses. They ended 2015-2016 as a solid playoff team that greatly overachieved, but had a great young corp that was on it's way up. Now they have an empty cupboard and a bubble team.

 

Interesting.

 

I am relatively uneducated on the Panthers organization so thanks for the info. Hopefully they can pull themselves out of the landfill they seemed to of slipped into here.

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Scott462    55
29 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I definitely understand the skepticism about our defense. I haven't heard anyone say they wouldn't mind having Markov back this year, myself included, but at the same time, early on last season and even years before, it seemed to have been a consensus that we need to limit Markov's minutes in order to have him be effective come playoff time.

 

Now we've reached a point where many are hoping Markov will resign and in my opinion, it's never been as clear as day that he would be resigning to be our top pairing defenseman.

 

Even last year, many went into the season with hope that Beaulieu might be able to grab the bull by the horns and become a respectable #2 alongside Weber. In the back of our minds, many also held the belief that we had Sergachev in the fold to eventually become Markov's replacement.

 

As has been stated, there might be more to be done by MB, but the truth is that we either have Alzner on the top pairing, which still isn't ideal or we have Markov on the top pair, who already a few years ago, needed to have his minutes cut back. This issue never seems to be brought up anymore due to the reality that we have no other choice. Last year, I remember suggesting that Markov should play on the top pairing after Beaulieu didn't pan out and Emelin was spending a bunch of time there; but I never expected for it to continue for years to come. 

 

On the complete other side of things,

it's true that we acquired some upgrades on defense and perhaps someone we don't expect can play a bigger role than we realize. I think some of those who aren't confident with our defense may see that we have more than we expected once we actually see the players on the ice.

 

Good post.

 

I still think Jerabek is a wild card, I have heard some great things about him and if he can transition his game to the NHL we might be in for a bit of a surprise. Who knows, having Alzner and Schlemko are a big plus for the defensive side of things surely.

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24 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

Interesting.

 

I am relatively uneducated on the Panthers organization so thanks for the info. Hopefully they can pull themselves out of the landfill they seemed to of slipped into here.

 

Me too! If they don't, the lease is up around 2025. By then, the arena will need significant upgrades. There's a lot of conflict down here between the beach lobby and the Panthers lobby on the Broward County board. They've been subsidizing the Panthers with some of the tourism taxes, and the beach people are arguing they deserve more. I agree with them, if I'm being objective. The team did well last year and in the 2nd half of the season beforehand. People down here don't show up to bad teams. I haven't been to a Marlins game since I moved five years ago.

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Link67    108
8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep...when I describe what actually happened, it looks 'worse.' But more important than what actually happened is what MB's intentions were. :rolleyes: And hey, maybe every last possible thing will break the Habs' way in 2018, in which case it's all good, right? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Good thing the NHL isn't a results-based business or MB might be in trouble.

 

Why don't you just admit that

 

(a) this team was better off with Sergachev and Radulov on an overpay than with Drouin and nobody else. In other words, this particular set of GM decisions made the team worse off.

 

while pointing out that

 

(b) the team has lots of cap space, so MB is presumably not done yet, and therefore we still have to wait and see how things plays out.

 

The case for MB's summer activities has to rest on (b) IMHO. Not on a bunch of good intentions and hypotheticals.

 

What is your struggle with admitting that obviously what Bergevin was trying to achieve based on what he has done and who he has negotiated with, is going into the season with Drouin, Radulov, and Markov. A scenario that would have increased our offensive potency a fair amount, and that was identified by them and most of us as a pretty glaring reason for our early playoff exit.

 

So yes the intention is worth noting, plans didn't work out, it doesn't mean Bergevin has locked himself in a closet and isn't doing anything else until October. But of course that narrative certainly fits the mold to paint him as completely incompetent across the board. To me, if he identified our lack of offense as a primary issue, and was aggressive in his pursuit for a top 6 forward to ADD to what he had in mind, which was bring back Radulov and Markov while also making a pitch for Alzner. That is not something commonly found in a completely incompetent GM, had he fulfilled his plan he would have upgraded the top 6 while solidifying our defense over the course of the offseason. It is easy to see what he was trying to do, discredit it for whatever reason you would like, but if he was active in getting this original plan going, i have a hard time believing now that it fell apart, he will sit on his hands and allow this team to enter the season with 9 million in cap space.

 

He is waiting for the right opportunity, the right dance partners, and people obviously see he is currently in a position where he needs to make acquisitions, and that is also the time the sharks come into the water looking for blood. If he wants to take his time from now until October to navigate the waters as a hunter instead of the hunted, then so be it, I won't accept doing nothing, but I will accept a change of plan, and evaluate its effectiveness once I see what he does.

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Commandant    609
7 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He must have been smoking the same stuff that Sakic is now!

 

Yzerman is a good GM who wasn't willing to sell a high valued asset at a discount. 

 

It worked out well for him. 

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At the end of the day a team assembled starting the season of

 

pacioretty galchenyuk radulov

drouin Danault lehkonan

byron plex Gallagher

Hudon McCarron Shaw

mitchell

 

Markov weber

alzner petry

schlemko benn

jerabek 

davidson

 

Price

montoya

 

This Is not a team that needs to rebuild in 5 years.

 

radulov choosing  the $$ money is just the way it goes... but imagine we don't trade for Drouin and Rads still goes to Dallas and we are left with just sergachev... things don't seem as good either... remember Rads was free and he's a UFA.

 

i think signing Markov 1 year and finding a big C upgrade that will include moving  plex, one of shaw or Gallagher a prospect and draft picks to get it done will put us in serious contention..

 

 

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1 hour ago, Link67 said:

 

What is your struggle with admitting that obviously what Bergevin was trying to achieve based on what he has done and who he has negotiated with, is going into the season with Drouin, Radulov, and Markov. A scenario that would have increased our offensive potency a fair amount, and that was identified by them and most of us as a pretty glaring reason for our early playoff exit.

 

So yes the intention is worth noting, plans didn't work out, it doesn't mean Bergevin has locked himself in a closet and isn't doing anything else until October. But of course that narrative certainly fits the mold to paint him as completely incompetent across the board. To me, if he identified our lack of offense as a primary issue, and was aggressive in his pursuit for a top 6 forward to ADD to what he had in mind, which was bring back Radulov and Markov while also making a pitch for Alzner. That is not something commonly found in a completely incompetent GM, had he fulfilled his plan he would have upgraded the top 6 while solidifying our defense over the course of the offseason. It is easy to see what he was trying to do, discredit it for whatever reason you would like, but if he was active in getting this original plan going, i have a hard time believing now that it fell apart, he will sit on his hands and allow this team to enter the season with 9 million in cap space.

 

He is waiting for the right opportunity, the right dance partners, and people obviously see he is currently in a position where he needs to make acquisitions, and that is also the time the sharks come into the water looking for blood. If he wants to take his time from now until October to navigate the waters as a hunter instead of the hunted, then so be it, I won't accept doing nothing, but I will accept a change of plan, and evaluate its effectiveness once I see what he does.

 

I'd note that you actually end up agreeing with my post. Right now, we're worse off on the Drouin/Radulov/Sergachev file than we were last year. So what MB does with his cap space will decide whether we pissed away our top prospect on a lateral move, or whether he actually makes the team substantially better.

 

More broadly, though, there is a clear difference, in that I'm intetested in results, and have less than zero time for Whack-A-Mole's endless stream of excuses. I'm sure Houle had plans too. I couldn't care less; what I care about is whether the Habs come out ahead at the end of the day. So far, they aren't.

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Link67    108
51 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'd note that you actually end up agreeing with my post. Right now, we're worse off on the Drouin/Radulov/Sergachev file than we were last year. So what MB does with his cap space will decide whether we pissed away our top prospect on a lateral move, or whether he actually makes the team substantially better.

 

More broadly, though, there is a clear difference, in that I'm intetested in results, and have less than zero time for Whack-A-Mole's endless stream of excuses. I'm sure Houle had plans too. I couldn't care less; what I care about is whether the Habs come out ahead at the end of the day. So far, they aren't.

 

Of course I agree, I know currently this team is not in better shape than if it had Radulov and Sergachev. However that is a hypothetical situation, just like if we had hypothetically Traded for Drouin, re-signed Radulov, re-signed Markov, and signed Alzner. We would actually be much improved from last year, intention is hypothetical, what ifs are hypothetical, and when comparing one hypothetical situation to the other, the 2017-18 Roster would have been better with Drouin/Radulov/Markov than it would have been with Radulov/Sergachev/Markov. It fills more of our need, and Drouin would be much more impactful on the roster than a rookie Sergachev learning the ropes and being sheltered in a bottom pair role, if he even made the team.

 

Now it remains to be seen what Drouin and whatever 9 million dollar worth of assets equates to, and if that equation remains an improved Roster over last year when taking into consideration the other improvements already made. Trust me if Bergevin does nothing, and for some dumb reason we enter the season with 9 million in cap space, I will be standing right beside you questioning what this management is smoking. I simply still have heavy doubts that it goes down that way, and until I get a clear picture of what way it does go down, it is premature to label this roster as anything but very likely incomplete.

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hab29RETIRED    169
26 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

Of course I agree, I know currently this team is not in better shape than if it had Radulov and Sergachev. However that is a hypothetical situation, just like if we had hypothetically Traded for Drouin, re-signed Radulov, re-signed Markov, and signed Alzner. We would actually be much improved from last year, intention is hypothetical, what ifs are hypothetical, and when comparing one hypothetical situation to the other, the 2017-18 Roster would have been better with Drouin/Radulov/Markov than it would have been with Radulov/Sergachev/Markov. It fills more of our need, and Drouin would be much more impactful on the roster than a rookie Sergachev learning the ropes and being sheltered in a bottom pair role, if he even made the team.

 

Now it remains to be seen what Drouin and whatever 9 million dollar worth of assets equates to, and if that equation remains an improved Roster over last year when taking into consideration the other improvements already made. Trust me if Bergevin does nothing, and for some dumb reason we enter the season with 9 million in cap space, I will be standing right beside you questioning what this management is smoking. I simply still have heavy doubts that it goes down that way, and until I get a clear picture of what way it does go down, it is premature to label this roster as anything but very likely incomplete.

I doubt if we start the season with $9m in cap space.  The question is, are we going to waste that cap space on more players like Shaw, briere, or Prust, like MB has done in the past.

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DON    27
10 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

Of course I agree, I know currently this team is not in better shape than if it had Radulov and Sergachev. However that is a hypothetical situation, just like if we had hypothetically Traded for Drouin, re-signed Radulov, re-signed Markov, and signed Alzner. We would actually be much improved from last year, intention is hypothetical, what ifs are hypothetical, and when comparing one hypothetical situation to the other, the 2017-18 Roster would have been better with Drouin/Radulov/Markov than it would have been with Radulov/Sergachev/Markov. It fills more of our need, and Drouin would be much more impactful on the roster than a rookie Sergachev learning the ropes and being sheltered in a bottom pair role, if he even made the team.

 

Now it remains to be seen what Drouin and whatever 9 million dollar worth of assets equates to, and if that equation remains an improved Roster over last year when taking into consideration the other improvements already made. Trust me if Bergevin does nothing, and for some dumb reason we enter the season with 9 million in cap space, I will be standing right beside you questioning what this management is smoking. I simply still have heavy doubts that it goes down that way, and until I get a clear picture of what way it does go down, it is premature to label this roster as anything but very likely incomplete.

Premature prognosis is what some specialize in and is said that tis year the Habs will have no transition game, wont score enough, have crap defense, so will suck on both offense and defense and any wins will only be because of #31's play and only firing Bergevin will fix it all.

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