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5 years from now this team will need a rebuild.. Will fans and media allow it done the right way??

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Commandant    599
On 19/07/2017 at 10:57 AM, DON said:

Missed playoffs 7 of last 9 years...promising...and you want Bergy to quit but praise this fellow, odd? Basement dwellers typically got no where to go but up and improve.

 

Why does 9 years matter? He hasn't been GM all that time.  He was hired one year after Bergevin. He's been in charge for 4 seasons, 5 offseasons..... Bergevin has 5 seasons, 6 off-seasons..... He's made the playoffs 2 of those 4 seasons.   Don't know why Nill gets any blame for 5 straight years out of the playoffs before he was hired.   Why even mention 7 out of 9 years?  Its intellectually dishonest and is merely spin to try and support Bergevin by making Nill look worse (by giving him blame for those 5 years he wasn't part of the team, and was in Detroit?)

 

But what does that 5 straight years missing the playoffs show?  He took over a worse team than Bergevin got in a club that in the previous 5 years had gone to the final four, had lost in game 7 OT to a cup champ, and had made the playoffs in 4 of the 5 years. 

 

 

Right now, on paper... I'd take the Dallas Stars over the Montreal Canadiens.   Everything on their team, and everything in their system, he's built a better team than we have right now. Starting from a worse position, and making good moves to get a Seguin, Bishop, Spezza, Methot, Hamhuis, etc.... 

 

Dallas will contend next year. 

In 5 offseasons, Nill has acquired 3 centres who would be top 6 players in montreal.... 2 of them would be our #1 centre right now if on the team. 
He also fixed his goaltending with a two-time Vezina nominee
He added Hamhuis, Methot, Heiskanen, and Julius Honka to his defence in a nice mix of picking up youth and solid vets. 
 

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Looks like someone figured out the hurdle Nill had. The team he took over was a complete disaster. He fixed their prospect pool and has been developing them. It wasn't anything close to perfect but his trades have been excellent. 

 

Bergevin has done nothing to fix the prospect pool and has ignored fixing problems because hey he's got Carey Price. And he's right, he does. And that's what holds the team back at this point. He works around his issue instead of fixing it.

 

Then again watch Drouin or Galchenyuk play centre this season and everyone will say he fixed the problem because one of them broke out. 

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DON    9
26 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Why does 9 years matter? He hasn't been GM all that time.  He was hired one year after Bergevin. He's been in charge for 4 seasons, 5 offseasons..... Bergevin has 5 seasons, 6 off-seasons..... He's made the playoffs 2 of those 4 seasons.   Don't know why Nill gets any blame for 5 straight years out of the playoffs before he was hired.   Why even mention 7 out of 9 years?  Its intellectually dishonest and is merely spin to try and support Bergevin by making Nill look worse (by giving him blame for those 5 years he wasn't part of the team, and was in Detroit?)

 

But what does that 5 straight years missing the playoffs show?  He took over a worse team than Bergevin got in a club that in the previous 5 years had gone to the final four, had lost in game 7 OT to a cup champ, and had made the playoffs in 4 of the 5 years. 

 

 

Right now, on paper... I'd take the Dallas Stars over the Montreal Canadiens.   Everything on their team, and everything in their system, he's built a better team than we have right now. Starting from a worse position, and making good moves to get a Seguin, Bishop, Spezza, Methot, Hamhuis, etc.... 

 

Dallas will contend next year. 

In 5 offseasons, Nill has acquired 3 centres who would be top 6 players in montreal.... 2 of them would be our #1 centre right now if on the team. 
He also fixed his goaltending with a two-time Vezina winner. 
He added Hamhuis, Methot, Heiskanen, and Julius Honka to his defence in a nice mix of picking up youth and solid vets. 
 

Acquired top centres and team is still horrible. Missing almost every year for a decade should darn well help with prospect pool. How do you know Bishop was a good signing, he hasn't played 1 game for them yet? Methot is overrated don't you think and Hamhuis best before date long passed, no? Dallas will contend, hmm?

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Commandant    599

Team was horrible cause they got the worst goaltending in the league last year. 

 

how do I know Bishop was a good signing?  By watching him for the last 4 years of his career.  He's been darn good for Tampa.  He's going to be good for Dallas. 

 

they are a much improved club, and their GM has been proactive in addressing their issues. 

 

My question again... what has Bergevin done to get a Centre? to address his team's biggest issue?  This isn't the try league.  This is the get it done league. 

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hab29RETIRED    159
3 hours ago, DON said:

Missed playoffs 7 of last 9 years...promising...and you want Bergy to quit but praise this fellow, odd? Basement dwellers typically got no where to go but up and improve.

Also how is the fact that they missed the playoffs 7 of the last 9 years relevant to Nill??? He's been their 4 years, they missed the playoffs twice and won a division.  

 

They've lost because of goaltending, pickups of Neimi and Lehtonan didn't work out.  But each time at least he went and traded for a goalie who was a cup winner and high draft pick that had a plausible chance of being a #1.  He didn't go trade for Ben friggin Scrivens.

 

he also inherited a much worse team, vastly improved the forwards and has been a WIP to improve the defence.  He inherited a hell of a bigger mess than than MB did - reflected by the fact they missed the playoffs the 5 years before he got there.  Over the last two years he's actually won more playoff rounds than your buddy MB.

 

despite how HARD MB has said it is to trade for a #1 centre, he's managed to snag 2.

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illWill    392
6 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Realistically there are only a few teams that can win a cup in any given year, not 31.  Guess what, Vegas, not winning the 2018 cup... Vancouver, not winning the 2018 cup, Colorado, Arizona, New Jersey, Buffalo, etc... not winning the cup. 

 

Realistically there are what, 6 or so "true contenders" who can win a cup. 

 

The Habs have been in that tier just below the true contenders for a while now.  What have they needed to take the next step? A true number 1 centre. What has our GM done to get one?  Well he's tried, he tells us he's trying.  He doesn't get it done, but he's trying guys. 

 

 

 

So because the Habs have a better chance than many of the 31 teams to win the Cup, we are using that as a reason to bash them? I'm just trying to follow what's going on around here. 

 

I am trying to put everything into perspective to anyone who for some reason feels entitled as Montreal Canadiens fan. This isn't the original 6, this isn't when they had first shot at any Quebec player. This is 2017 and a salary cap world, parity is a real thing. The only advantage we have is being able to max out on the salary cap and to hire however many expensive coaches and managers we want. And we can argue at a disadvantage due to tax implications for a player deciding to come here. For every Arizona, Colorado, and Vegas there is a Washington, San Jose, and St.Louis that haven't been able to get it done either. As long as this team keeps making the playoffs and has Carey Price, they have a chance; just like most teams have a chance.

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DON    9
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Team was horrible cause they got the worst goaltending in the league last year. 

 

how do I know Bishop was a good signing?  By watching him for the last 4 years of his career.  He's been darn good for Tampa.  He's going to be good for Dallas. 

 

they are a much improved club, and their GM has been proactive in addressing their issues. 

 

My question again... what has Bergevin done to get a Centre? to address his team's biggest issue?  This isn't the try league.  This is the get it done league. 

Added two centres and Dallas has got jack squat "done", other than 24th place and only Aves gave up more goals, that aint simply goalie issues. So what exactly has that GM got 'done', besides on paper. BUT, does goes to show that adding a #1 centre (or two) is not a cure-all and Spezza is 1 year from old-timer softball age with declining production and Benn had 20pt drop last year as well, so best 'get it done' soon. Will be interesting to see how Radulov does though, other than that Dallas is another franchise that few would miss.

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Stogey24    221
29 minutes ago, DON said:

Added two centres and Dallas has got jack squat "done", other than 24th place and only Aves gave up more goals, that aint simply goalie issues. So what exactly has that GM got 'done', besides on paper. BUT, does goes to show that adding a #1 centre (or two) is not a cure-all and Spezza is 1 year from old-timer softball age with declining production and Benn had 20pt drop last year as well, so best 'get it done' soon. Will be interesting to see how Radulov does though, other than that Dallas is another franchise that few would miss.

Man your out to lunch.  Honestly 

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Commandant    599
44 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

So because the Habs have a better chance than many of the 31 teams to win the Cup, we are using that as a reason to bash them? I'm just trying to follow what's going on around here. 

 

I am trying to put everything into perspective to anyone who for some reason feels entitled as Montreal Canadiens fan. This isn't the original 6, this isn't when they had first shot at any Quebec player. This is 2017 and a salary cap world, parity is a real thing. The only advantage we have is being able to max out on the salary cap and to hire however many expensive coaches and managers we want. And we can argue at a disadvantage due to tax implications for a player deciding to come here. For every Arizona, Colorado, and Vegas there is a Washington, San Jose, and St.Louis that haven't been able to get it done either. As long as this team keeps making the playoffs and has Carey Price, they have a chance; just like most teams have a chance.

 

The goal is to win the cup. 

 

If you have one key thing keeping you from contending for the cup, aka a first line centre, and everyone in the world knows it... after 6 off-seasons the GM has to solve the problem. 

 

Oh and there is plenty of cap space to get it done. 

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Scott462    54
11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

The goal is to win the cup. 

 

If you have one key thing keeping you from contending for the cup, aka a first line centre, and everyone in the world knows it... after 6 off-seasons the GM has to solve the problem. 

 

Oh and there is plenty of cap space to get it done. 

 

I agree the top centre needs to be addressed. Time is running out for MB unless like others have said Chuck or Drouin break out this year at centre or he finally gets it done this year and lands one.

 

In regards to the Dallas conversation while they certainly have made some good moves this year and have filled a big problem they had in nets, have they really solved their D problem with Methot? Will it be better sure but Dallas has never struggled in offence but defence and I'm not sure Methot is the guy that will put them over the top IMO.

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illWill    392
46 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

The goal is to win the cup. 

 

If you have one key thing keeping you from contending for the cup, aka a first line centre, and everyone in the world knows it... after 6 off-seasons the GM has to solve the problem. 

 

Oh and there is plenty of cap space to get it done. 

 

There's no question there needs to be a defined #1 center on this roster. Galchenyuk or Drouin could possibly seize that role, and then we could maybe get away with Danault as a #2 and Plekanec as #3 shut down. And then maybe adding a scoring winger could work. I'm just not sure where this other center that should be added is supposed to come from, even with all that cap space. It's not as easy as saying "get it done". If you have a solution I'd be happy to hear it, and I'm sure Bergevin would as well. 

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Commandant    599
44 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

I agree the top centre needs to be addressed. Time is running out for MB unless like others have said Chuck or Drouin break out this year at centre or he finally gets it done this year and lands one.

 

In regards to the Dallas conversation while they certainly have made some good moves this year and have filled a big problem they had in nets, have they really solved their D problem with Methot? Will it be better sure but Dallas has never struggled in offence but defence and I'm not sure Methot is the guy that will put them over the top IMO.

 

They have a top four of 

 

Methot - Klingberg

Hamhuis - Lindell

 

With players like Honka and Heiskanen who will be breaking in soon. 

 

Its not the best, but its really not that bad, especially with Bishop in net instead of what they had last year and a very strong forward group that added both Radulov and Martin Hanzal. 

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Commandant    599
16 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

There's no question there needs to be a defined #1 center on this roster. Galchenyuk or Drouin could possibly seize that role, and then we could maybe get away with Danault as a #2 and Plekanec as #3 shut down. And then maybe adding a scoring winger could work. I'm just not sure where this other center that should be added is supposed to come from, even with all that cap space. It's not as easy as saying "get it done". If you have a solution I'd be happy to hear it, and I'm sure Bergevin would as well. 

 

His job is to find a solution, he's had 6 off-seasons and drafts to do it. 

 

1.) In four of his 5 seasons at the helm, we entered the year with our centre depth being Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller. 
No change, just kept rolling out those three for 4 straight years. 

In the fifth year we started with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Desharnais, and finished with Danault, Plekenac, Shaw. 

 

2.) We were supposed to build through the draft.  Top 6 centres come overwhelmingly from the top two rounds. In the top 2 rounds, he's drafted.... Alex Galchenyuk, and then allowed his coaches to use him on the wing constantly and not develop him as a center. Michael McCarron who was a RW both seasons with the US NTDP, was a RW to start his first year in London, and who then Dale Hunter moved to Centre. Even then he never had the offensive potential to be a top 6 guy, something i said from day one of him being drafted. Jacob de la Rose is another player who was best suited as a third/fourth line centre. Ryan Poehling and Joni Ikonen were drafted this year, so maybe one of those is a top 6 centre. 

 

To recap... a guy who was supposed to build through the draft, drafted 1 offensive centre, and 1 defensive centre, and 1 guy who converted from wing to centre in the top 2 rounds of his first five drafts.  1 Legit Offense producing prospect at centre. 

 

3.) Traded in those years.... Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Brayden Schenn, Martin Hanzal, Ryan Johansen, Mika Zibanejad, Artem Anisimov, Derick Brassard, Derek Stepan, Eric Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Ryan Kesler.  Other guys are moving by free agency.  Movement happens.  

4.) Didn't even make an offer to Vadim Shipachyov.  The guys agent called the Habs to see if they were interested, we didn't make an offer. 


 

 

I'm tired of excuses as to why in 6 years he can't get it done.  Other GMs get centres.  There is no reason why Montreal can't. 

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habs rule    392
17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

His job is to find a solution, he's had 6 off-seasons and drafts to do it. 

 

1.) In four of his 5 seasons at the helm, we entered the year with our centre depth being Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller. 
No change, just kept rolling out those three for 4 straight years. 

In the fifth year we started with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Desharnais, and finished with Danault, Plekenac, Shaw. 

 

2.) We were supposed to build through the draft.  Top 6 centres come overwhelmingly from the top two rounds. In the top 2 rounds, he's drafted.... Alex Galchenyuk, and then allowed his coaches to use him on the wing constantly and not develop him as a center. Michael McCarron who was a RW both seasons with the US NTDP, was a RW to start his first year in London, and who then Dale Hunter moved to Centre. Even then he never had the offensive potential to be a top 6 guy, something i said from day one of him being drafted. Jacob de la Rose is another player who was best suited as a third/fourth line centre. Ryan Poehling and Joni Ikonen were drafted this year, so maybe one of those is a top 6 centre. 

 

To recap... a guy who was supposed to build through the draft, drafted 1 offensive centre, and 1 defensive centre, and 1 guy who converted from wing to centre in the top 2 rounds of his first five drafts.  1 Legit Offense producing prospect at centre. 

 

3.) Traded in those years.... Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Brayden Schenn, Martin Hanzal, Ryan Johansen, Mika Zibanejad, Artem Anisimov, Derick Brassard, Derek Stepan, Eric Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Ryan Kesler.  Other guys are moving by free agency.  Movement happens.  

4.) Didn't even make an offer to Vadim Shipachyov.  The guys agent called the Habs to see if they were interested, we didn't make an offer. 


 

 

I'm tired of excuses as to why in 6 years he can't get it done.  Other GMs get centres.  There is no reason why Montreal can't. 

because it is so hard. He has 4th liners and washed up former "good" players to sign. You think Hemsky just falls in your lap? no you have to work to get him. It is just so damned hard. This post may have some sarcasm in it.

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Link67    95
36 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

They have a top four of 

 

Methot - Klingberg

Hamhuis - Lindell

 

With players like Honka and Heiskanen who will be breaking in soon. 

 

Its not the best, but its really not that bad, especially with Bishop in net instead of what they had last year and a very strong forward group that added both Radulov and Martin Hanzal. 

 

While I agree with most of your assessment on Dallas, that Defense is not the stuff contenders are made of that much is clear, Hamhius had a putrid season, Klingberg is very one dimensional, Methot is still solid but not for much longer. I see that Defense with the potential to grow into something formidable a few years down the road, but by then guys like Radulov, and Spezza will be less productive. After what I saw Hanzal doing in Minnesota i'm not really sure I like that signing, especially from a 3rd line position where he has little to no chance to compete with his career high in points.

 

Dallas is certainly on the right track, because they have Seguin and Benn, and now some very solid goaltending in Bishop. But they are still a few years away from being a serious threat, that D core needs to round out and then maybe they can do some damage.

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illWill    392
37 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

His job is to find a solution, he's had 6 off-seasons and drafts to do it. 

 

1.) In four of his 5 seasons at the helm, we entered the year with our centre depth being Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller. 
No change, just kept rolling out those three for 4 straight years. 

In the fifth year we started with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Desharnais, and finished with Danault, Plekenac, Shaw. 

 

2.) We were supposed to build through the draft.  Top 6 centres come overwhelmingly from the top two rounds. In the top 2 rounds, he's drafted.... Alex Galchenyuk, and then allowed his coaches to use him on the wing constantly and not develop him as a center. Michael McCarron who was a RW both seasons with the US NTDP, was a RW to start his first year in London, and who then Dale Hunter moved to Centre. Even then he never had the offensive potential to be a top 6 guy, something i said from day one of him being drafted. Jacob de la Rose is another player who was best suited as a third/fourth line centre. Ryan Poehling and Joni Ikonen were drafted this year, so maybe one of those is a top 6 centre. 

 

To recap... a guy who was supposed to build through the draft, drafted 1 offensive centre, and 1 defensive centre, and 1 guy who converted from wing to centre in the top 2 rounds of his first five drafts.  1 Legit Offense producing prospect at centre. 

 

3.) Traded in those years.... Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Brayden Schenn, Martin Hanzal, Ryan Johansen, Mika Zibanejad, Artem Anisimov, Derick Brassard, Derek Stepan, Eric Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Ryan Kesler.  Other guys are moving by free agency.  Movement happens.  

4.) Didn't even make an offer to Vadim Shipachyov.  The guys agent called the Habs to see if they were interested, we didn't make an offer. 


 

 

I'm tired of excuses as to why in 6 years he can't get it done.  Other GMs get centres.  There is no reason why Montreal can't. 

 

1) His first stamp on the team was drafting what is supposed to finally be our #1 center. Currently that player is struggling to fill that role. Whether that's a player fault or a coach fault is debatable. I don't understand how it's Bergevin's fault, he doesn't set the lines or play. 

 

2) Sure, he could have just blindly drafted whatever center was available late in the first round a few times. But what kind of center was available at those times? I believe best player available is the best way to go, and again, that's debatable. I agree that Poeling could be a guy with upside. Drafts are mostly crapshoots regardless

 

3) That list of centers hardly screams #1 on a contending team. Seguin is a stud and Boston got fleeced. Would they ever trade a player of his ilk to a hated rival? Ditto for Spezza. We didnt have a Seth Jones to trade for Johannson. Zibanajad and Brassard were traded for each other. Brayden Schenn would have been a nice addiction this off season if a deal could have been done. 

 

4) Shipachyov is an unknown at this point in the NHL. He could turn out to be a steal, he could turn out to be a bum. We will have to stay tuned. But yes, an offer would show a desire to fill a hole, even if he low balled him. 4.5m is alot of cap space for an unknown though

 

 

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2 hours ago, illWill said:

 

So because the Habs have a better chance than many of the 31 teams to win the Cup, we are using that as a reason to bash them? I'm just trying to follow what's going on around here. 

 

I am trying to put everything into perspective to anyone who for some reason feels entitled as Montreal Canadiens fan. 

 

Any fan is entitled to entertainment. One of the reasons, imo, behind "Woe Canada" is the loyalty of Canadian fans. Down here in South Florida, forget the Panthers, the Dolphins and Marlins have lousy teams and that equals an empty stadium. Teams that fail to deliver should be hit hard in the pocketbook. With the exception of the Sens and Canucks, Canadian fans line up around the block for whatever crap show skates in an NHL rink. That's a big reason for the lack of Cups in Canada. You can draw a straight line in almost any other sport/team between wins and revenue.

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2 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Man your out to lunch.  Honestly 

 

Dallas is one of the most exciting teams in hockey, lol. 

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Link67    95
38 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

His job is to find a solution, he's had 6 off-seasons and drafts to do it. 

 

1.) In four of his 5 seasons at the helm, we entered the year with our centre depth being Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller. 
No change, just kept rolling out those three for 4 straight years. 

In the fifth year we started with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Desharnais, and finished with Danault, Plekenac, Shaw. 

 

2.) We were supposed to build through the draft.  Top 6 centres come overwhelmingly from the top two rounds. In the top 2 rounds, he's drafted.... Alex Galchenyuk, and then allowed his coaches to use him on the wing constantly and not develop him as a center. Michael McCarron who was a RW both seasons with the US NTDP, was a RW to start his first year in London, and who then Dale Hunter moved to Centre. Even then he never had the offensive potential to be a top 6 guy, something i said from day one of him being drafted. Jacob de la Rose is another player who was best suited as a third/fourth line centre. Ryan Poehling and Joni Ikonen were drafted this year, so maybe one of those is a top 6 centre. 

 

To recap... a guy who was supposed to build through the draft, drafted 1 offensive centre, and 1 defensive centre, and 1 guy who converted from wing to centre in the top 2 rounds of his first five drafts.  1 Legit Offense producing prospect at centre. 

 

3.) Traded in those years.... Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Brayden Schenn, Martin Hanzal, Ryan Johansen, Mika Zibanejad, Artem Anisimov, Derick Brassard, Derek Stepan, Eric Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Ryan Kesler.  Other guys are moving by free agency.  Movement happens.  

4.) Didn't even make an offer to Vadim Shipachyov.  The guys agent called the Habs to see if they were interested, we didn't make an offer. 


 

 

I'm tired of excuses as to why in 6 years he can't get it done.  Other GMs get centres.  There is no reason why Montreal can't. 

 

Can't really argue this point, I try to remain objective and realistic when it comes to Bergevin, I avoid getting sucked into the constant negative rhetoric. But he has indeed failed to go after an established top 6 center. I get the theory behind seeing if Galchenyuk was going to be the guy, there is also no harm in insulating him by getting a guy who could be the top line guy while Galchenyuk rounded out his Center play on a second line. 

 

I'm also not sure why we did not get in on the Marcus Johansson deal, we had the chips to make that deal happen just as easily as NJ did, that one is a missed oportunity on his part.

 

as for Shipachyov, when he came knocking Bergevin likely thought he wouldn't have the money for him, he had an idea in his mind of what it would take to sign Radulov, Markov, and Galchenyuk, and Shipachyov asking for 4.5 would not have fit under his projections. Now if Shipachyov was still a free agent today, I have little doubt Bergevin would have been giving him a call and offering a deal, especially since Bergevin was the first NHL GM to try and get him to come to the NHL last November and nearly succeeded were it not for some contract clause.

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Commandant    599
1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

1) His first stamp on the team was drafting what is supposed to finally be our #1 center. Currently that player is struggling to fill that role. Whether that's a player fault or a coach fault is debatable. I don't understand how it's Bergevin's fault, he doesn't set the lines or play. 

 

2) Sure, he could have just blindly drafted whatever center was available late in the first round a few times. But what kind of center was available at those times? I believe best player available is the best way to go, and again, that's debatable. I agree that Poeling could be a guy with upside. Drafts are mostly crapshoots regardless

 

3) That list of centers hardly screams #1 on a contending team. Seguin is a stud and Boston got fleeced. Would they ever trade a player of his ilk to a hated rival? Ditto for Spezza. We didnt have a Seth Jones to trade for Johannson. Zibanajad and Brassard were traded for each other. Brayden Schenn would have been a nice addiction this off season if a deal could have been done. 

 

4) Shipachyov is an unknown at this point in the NHL. He could turn out to be a steal, he could turn out to be a bum. We will have to stay tuned. But yes, an offer would show a desire to fill a hole, even if he low balled him. 4.5m is alot of cap space for an unknown though

 

 

 

Bergevin is the boss. 

 

He hires the NHL coach, He hires the AHL coach. He has decided to keep Timmins and even given him two promotions. He is responsible at the end of the day for what the people under him do.  If my assistant messes up paperwork for a client, you know who takes the blame?  I do.  Cause I'm the boss and the buck stops with me.  The same with Bergevin.  He gets credit for the moves that work, he gets blame when they don't.  Thats the bottom line when you are given the role at the head tof the hockey operations dept. 

 

As for the list of centres, almost all of them would be number 1 on our team.  I'm pretty sure I'd take any of them as the number 1 over Danault.  Oh and we did have the equivalent of a Seth Jones, we had an even better defenceman than Seth Jones. We traded him for an older defenceman. 

 

Again, after 6 off-seasons.... lets live by the words from when he took over the team NO EXCUSES. 

 

 

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Commandant    599

Here is the key though

 

4 out of 5 years he went into the season with Centre Depth of Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller. 

 

And not only that, but it was a group he felt strongly about that in contract negotiations he overpaid every single one of those three guys. 

 

He gave Desharnias 4y x 3.5 million, Plekanec 2y x 6 million, and Eller 4y x 3.5 million.  For someone who saw this as an issue that needed addressing, he sure locked up what he had long term at a lot of money. 

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illWill    392
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Bergevin is the boss. 

 

He hires the NHL coach, He hires the AHL coach. He has decided to keep Timmins and even given him two promotions. He is responsible at the end of the day for what the people under him do.  If my assistant messes up paperwork for a client, you know who takes the blame?  I do.  Cause I'm the boss and the buck stops with me.  The same with Bergevin.  He gets credit for the moves that work, he gets blame when they don't.  Thats the bottom line when you are given the role at the head tof the hockey operations dept. 

 

As for the list of centres, almost all of them would be number 1 on our team.  I'm pretty sure I'd take any of them as the number 1 over Danault.  Oh and we did have the equivalent of a Seth Jones, we had an even better defenceman than Seth Jones. We traded him for an older defenceman. 

 

Again, after 6 off-seasons.... lets live by the words from when he took over the team NO EXCUSES. 

 

 

 

Is Julien a bad hire? Tell me who else he should have hired. Two coaches now have moved Galchenyuk to the wing. Whose fault is that, the player, coach or GM? 

 

Your list of "#1" centers being our best is again an indictment of Galchenyuk, not Bergevin. Yes we had a Seth Jones, but he was a million times more expensive, thus a million times harder to move for a proven #1 center. What was the trade he could have made? And lots of people love the Weber trade, so don't act like it sucked because he is 3 and a half years older. 

 

6 off seasons and still a competitive hockey team that just won the division. What's the complaint again? 

 

Excuse me if I feel like I'm in bizarro world. All I see is lots of complaining and no solutions or appreciation 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Here is the key though

 

4 out of 5 years he went into the season with Centre Depth of Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller. 

 

And not only that, but it was a group he felt strongly about that in contract negotiations he overpaid every single one of those three guys. 

 

He gave Desharnias 4y x 3.5 million, Plekanec 2y x 6 million, and Eller 4y x 3.5 million.  For someone who saw this as an issue that needed addressing, he sure locked up what he had long term at a lot of money. 

 

I don't think he views a number one center or even better center depth as a priority. He's made more trades than any NHL GM. He signed Alzner and Petry to more money than anybody else in the league each respective FA period, and very early on. Petry was before July 1st, and Alzner was within hours. And as you've mentioned, he went into four of five years with DD/Plek/Eller, and each season was worse than the last.

 

 

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dlbalr    645
2 hours ago, Link67 said:

I'm also not sure why we did not get in on the Marcus Johansson deal, we had the chips to make that deal happen just as easily as NJ did, that one is a missed oportunity on his part.

1

 

New Jersey got him fairly cheap but it's worth noting that Johansson wouldn't have done much to help the issue down the middle; he's at his best on the wing and struggles at centre.  He would have been a nice addition to the offence in general but the centre issue would still be there.

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Commandant    599
2 hours ago, illWill said:

 

Is Julien a bad hire? Tell me who else he should have hired. Two coaches now have moved Galchenyuk to the wing. Whose fault is that, the player, coach or GM? 

 

Your list of "#1" centers being our best is again an indictment of Galchenyuk, not Bergevin. Yes we had a Seth Jones, but he was a million times more expensive, thus a million times harder to move for a proven #1 center. What was the trade he could have made? And lots of people love the Weber trade, so don't act like it sucked because he is 3 and a half years older. 

 

6 off seasons and still a competitive hockey team that just won the division. What's the complaint again? 

 

Excuse me if I feel like I'm in bizarro world. All I see is lots of complaining and no solutions or appreciation 

 

I'm not getting paid 3 million a year to find solutions. 

 

I'm also not privy to all the discussions with other GMs, agents, scouts, and other people who have the ability to make the deals. 

 

Expecting me to come up with a solution is silly. 

 

Expecting the man who is privy to those discussions, who is paid well to do that job, who has full control of the hockey operations, is not unreasonable. 

 

Add on the fact that we can watch other GMs acquire number 1 centres, and yes some blame is warranted after 6 off-seasons. 

 

I feel like I'm in bizzarro world, all i see is excuses for why the most important hole on this team is still not filled. 

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