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Andrei Markov tribute thread - officially not back

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BCHabnut    163

I don't see this season as lateral quite yet. The defensive top 4 depth is big question mark. As it was last year. There is no number 1 centre. There hasn't been for 20 years. But the top 6 wing depth looks very good. And there is a healthy chunk of change available to make moves before the season or in the first half of the season. MB not have the cap room last year. I am cautiously optimistic. 

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illWill    423
43 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Assessing this off season as having been lateral  is not so far off the mark. What CC was saying is the squad isn't clearly much better than last season and to end up where we are, we had to get rid of our only elite prospect. 

 

If you're going to trade Sergachev for Drouin, then you had better sign Markov with the cap space you have left over. 

 

It's September 5th and we're supposed to expect that Bergevin will actually spend up to the cap limit this season? Which team is going to throw this 8 million dollar player at us? Every day that passes once the season starts, the cap hit that player takes up lessens and so even if we did manage to trade for an 8 million dollar star at say the deadline, it still wouldn't put us to the cap limit.

 

Everyone seems to agree that letting Markov

go leaves a negative taste in their mouths and yet that's ready to be overlooked in order to continue to be a defender.

 

 

 

I understand when people say the team hasn't improved from where it left off to end the season. That's the free agency game for ya, over payment in dollars for a player that doesn't cost you a roster player. My point is what could he have done to make Radulov sign? Throw more money at him? Would we all be happy with a 5 year Radulov signing at around 7 million pre-tax? 

 

The reason big salaried players aren't moved very often is generally because the teams that are contenders and interested have already spent to the cap. Montreal finds itself in a unique situation if they are in contention for the division with their current roster. They can trade for a wide range of players and salary won't be a constriction. They also don't have to send money the other way either just to facilitate a deal. 

 

Corey Perry, Claude Giroux, David Krejci, Jordan Staal, Matt Duchene, Jason Spezza, Henrik Zetterberg, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Keith Yandle, Anze Koptiar, Andrew Ladd, Bobby Ryan, Dion Phaneuf, and Louie Eriksson are all big salaried players under contract who could become available at any point if their team or themselves aren't doing as well as hoped. 

 

Whereas, guys like Mikko Koivu, Rick Nash, John Tavares, Paul Stastny, Both Sedins, Evander Kane, Joe Thornton, Brian Little, James Neal, James Van Riemsdyk, Tyler Bozak, Zdeno Chara, Kyle Turris, and David Perron are all on expiring contracts and could be trade deadline material. 

 

I wouldn't throw in the towel on the upcoming season just yet

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Right. There is definitely the possibility of further moves being made. I always mention that in my posts. What I'm saying is that, based on the info we have right now, the team is unlikely to be better than last year's non-contender. In terms of core players, Radu/Drouin is a wash, while the subtraction of Markov is a significant loss. But we do have greater depth on the wings and perhaps a better overall defensive zone play. (And of course, our best prospect has been traded away). So far, so lateral. As far as we know, the team that takes to the ice in September is no closer to winning than the team that couldn't score its way out of a paper bag last May. Indeed, the team has not meaningfully improved in five years, so what else is new. Pardon me for not clicking my heels together and leading the MB Is Wonderful Parade.

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DON    26
57 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I don't see this season as lateral quite yet. The defensive top 4 depth is big question mark. 

I think defense has improved this year with Alzner and Benn and no longer will we have to cross our fingers every time Beaulieu or Emelin touch the puck. Price will like having Weber-Alzner-Benn on the PK also.  What will the depth d-men bring?

Markov's offense and smarts being replaced...cant see it happening, but he also is old and not getting any quicker so...

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BCHabnut    163

Overall defensive depth has certainly improved. Top 4 depth is up for debate. Specifically the #2 spot. 

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Stogey24    258
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Right. There is definitely the possibility of further moves being made. I always mention that in my posts. What I'm saying is that, based on the info we have right now, the team is unlikely to be better than last year's non-contender. In terms of core players, Radu/Drouin is a wash, while the subtraction of Markov is a significant loss. But we do have greater depth on the wings and perhaps a better overall defensive zone play. (And of course, our best prospect has been traded away). So far, so lateral. As far as we know, the team that takes to the ice in September is no closer to winning than the team that couldn't score its way out of a paper bag last May. Indeed, the team has not meaningfully improved in five years, so what else is new. Pardon me for not clicking my heels together and leading the MB Is Wonderful Parade.

You realize the people you're arguing with would literally put themselves in front of a car for Bergevin 

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Link67    108
19 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

For the seventh time, we didn't replace Radulov with Drouin. We traded Sergachev for Drouin. Furthermore, even after the move, Bergevin stated that it was still the intention to sign at least one of Radulov or Markov on a first come, first serve basis.

 

As a fan, it becomes easy to justify that we replaced Radulov with a younger player with more potential but I don't understand the purpose in doing so when it clearly wasn't our GM's intention. He did not trade for Drouin as a result of Radulov leaving. That's just not the way it happened.

 

With that being said, at face value, I was about 10 times more upset at letting Radulov go than Markov the moment I heard the news. The reason being that he has more years in the tank (sure the lengthier contract can be spun in a negative manner as well) as well as the fact that with Radulov and Drouin on the team, I think we go from having a relatively weak offense to potentially one of the more dangerous ones in the league. Perhaps we did  still get better on offense but as good as Drouin is, it's not by much due to the fact that we also lost some effective pieces.

 

After the dust settled, however, I do agree that letting Markov go becomes the bigger "mistake". I believe that Radulov and his agent were being tough in negotiations whereas from what I understand Markov was willing to bend and sign a one year contract. If anyone thinks we have a better chance at a cup without Markov and all this cap space, then I wouldn't be able to agree with them. I can't gel with the mentality of not icing the best team possible now unless we are a completely rebuilding team. 

 

I'm usually very positive and think we still have a decent team but I don't think that it's the best team we could have had. Still some time to change that mentality but that's the positive in me coming out again. 

 

Hey look I understand where you are coming from, but the bare bones facts are, When the season starts, the guy who is going to be expected to fill the void left by Radulov's departure, is Drouin. So to say he is not replacing him because the trade/signing did not relate to each other is incorrect, Drouin is going to be playing in Radulov's spot next year or now possibly at Center and Galchneyuk will be in his spot. Either way we are replacing Radulov that way, And as I mentioned in that post, I was able to move on from that decision, and I say that because I wasn't thrilled about losing Radulov, and did have to "move on" as you would from a situation you wish didn't have to happen. But I moved on easier from the decision not to over extend on Radulov because I could see the viable pieces in place after the fact that could replace his production. 

 

Now on the Markov front, Why I was and still am so upset about it, is that no matter how I look at this, or which way I flip the box around that I am trying to think outside of, we have no replacement. There wasn't even a remotely close option, There was no Drouin on Defense that I could think to myself, well we didn't over extend on Markov because we have player X ready to take on his role, it would be best to use the cap differently. There is none of that, he was necessary on this Blue line at the time we were negotiating, and he is still necessary now a couple weeks away from pre-season. 

 

I can understand Bergevin's thinking if he has in his mind a magic number he won't go past with Radulov, because he sees it in his head that well since I have Drouin, If I am going to have to spend 7 mill to keep Radulov, I'd rather replace him with Drouin and use the 7 mill towards a Center. I can get behind that type of thinking because Drouin is a viable replacement at RW, and a Center is a position of need on this club. Is it what he was thinking? I don't know, I hope so, it is what I'd be thinking, and I am just little old me discussing hockey on a forum from my home office. I would also see a potential plan of action in over extending a bit on signing Radulov, 7mill for 5 years, having that top 6 winger depth, to then be able to use one as trade bait for a top 6 center, whether it is a Galchenyuk, or even for the right fish in the pond, a Pacioretty, that would also be another way to acquire a quality Center. What I can't understand in any way shape or form, is not overpaying a little for Markov, who brings offense, the ability to play on the top pair, a PP quarterback, a Leader, and a one of a kind type of player on the roster who could not be directly replaced from within or free agency. Not to mention we lost 3 LD within the organization during the previous 6 weeks, the decision there is baffling. I like to try and stay neutral with Bergevin, give him props when he deserves, give him his lashings when he messes up, and this one is clearly a screw up in my eyes. You just can't justify not getting her done on a deal for Markov when you gut the position he plays during the summer, have no replacement on board, and cannot easily acquire an adequate replacement through other means.

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DON    26
4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

You realize the people you're arguing with would literally put themselves in front of a car for Bergevin 

Hmmm...and I wonder who it is that's shoving poor Bergy into traffic? The Pessimists? The Disillusioned?:popcorn:

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
11 hours ago, illWill said:

 

I understand when people say the team hasn't improved from where it left off to end the season. That's the free agency game for ya, over payment in dollars for a player that doesn't cost you a roster player. My point is what could he have done to make Radulov sign? Throw more money at him? Would we all be happy with a 5 year Radulov signing at around 7 million pre-tax? 

 

The reason big salaried players aren't moved very often is generally because the teams that are contenders and interested have already spent to the cap. Montreal finds itself in a unique situation if they are in contention for the division with their current roster. They can trade for a wide range of players and salary won't be a constriction. They also don't have to send money the other way either just to facilitate a deal. 

 

Corey Perry, Claude Giroux, David Krejci, Jordan Staal, Matt Duchene, Jason Spezza, Henrik Zetterberg, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Keith Yandle, Anze Koptiar, Andrew Ladd, Bobby Ryan, Dion Phaneuf, and Louie Eriksson are all big salaried players under contract who could become available at any point if their team or themselves aren't doing as well as hoped. 

 

Whereas, guys like Mikko Koivu, Rick Nash, John Tavares, Paul Stastny, Both Sedins, Evander Kane, Joe Thornton, Brian Little, James Neal, James Van Riemsdyk, Tyler Bozak, Zdeno Chara, Kyle Turris, and David Perron are all on expiring contracts and could be trade deadline material. 

 

I wouldn't throw in the towel on the upcoming season just yet

It will be interesting to see how Dallas fares this season. Currently we have about 8.5 million free in cap space and the Stars have a little over 2 million. The difference in cap space between the teams is essentially Radulov's salary. Last season we ended with 103 points and the Stars ended with 79. I agree that we shouldn't have overpayed for Radulov because of the long term rammifications on the cap but ageing or not, I would have taken him on our team this season considering we do have the cap space. Once signed, he could also have been used as a trade chip himself, if we wanted relief from his cap hit in the future. My posts aren't really placing blame on Bergevin per se but with that being said, I don't think things went according to plan this off season.

 

In addition, I have mixed emotions about the fact that we don't have to shed salary to acquire one of those players back. On one hand that's great and all but are we really going to want to use Hudon or McCarron or Carr or DeLaRose as those trade chips right before we get to see them grow into their potential after having been so 'patient' with them? Are we ever going to develop players from within and see them play for our squad? On the complete opposite side of the coin, will they be enough to acquire top end players in addition to say, draft picks? They aren't exactly elite prospects at this point in time. 

9 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

Hey look I understand where you are coming from, but the bare bones facts are, When the season starts, the guy who is going to be expected to fill the void left by Radulov's departure, is Drouin. So to say he is not replacing him because the trade/signing did not relate to each other is incorrect, Drouin is going to be playing in Radulov's spot next year or now possibly at Center and Galchneyuk will be in his spot. Either way we are replacing Radulov that way, And as I mentioned in that post, I was able to move on from that decision, and I say that because I wasn't thrilled about losing Radulov, and did have to "move on" as you would from a situation you wish didn't have to happen. But I moved on easier from the decision not to over extend on Radulov because I could see the viable pieces in place after the fact that could replace his production. 

 

Now on the Markov front, Why I was and still am so upset about it, is that no matter how I look at this, or which way I flip the box around that I am trying to think outside of, we have no replacement. There wasn't even a remotely close option, There was no Drouin on Defense that I could think to myself, well we didn't over extend on Markov because we have player X ready to take on his role, it would be best to use the cap differently. There is none of that, he was necessary on this Blue line at the time we were negotiating, and he is still necessary now a couple weeks away from pre-season. 

 

I can understand Bergevin's thinking if he has in his mind a magic number he won't go past with Radulov, because he sees it in his head that well since I have Drouin, If I am going to have to spend 7 mill to keep Radulov, I'd rather replace him with Drouin and use the 7 mill towards a Center. I can get behind that type of thinking because Drouin is a viable replacement at RW, and a Center is a position of need on this club. Is it what he was thinking? I don't know, I hope so, it is what I'd be thinking, and I am just little old me discussing hockey on a forum from my home office. I would also see a potential plan of action in over extending a bit on signing Radulov, 7mill for 5 years, having that top 6 winger depth, to then be able to use one as trade bait for a top 6 center, whether it is a Galchenyuk, or even for the right fish in the pond, a Pacioretty, that would also be another way to acquire a quality Center. What I can't understand in any way shape or form, is not overpaying a little for Markov, who brings offense, the ability to play on the top pair, a PP quarterback, a Leader, and a one of a kind type of player on the roster who could not be directly replaced from within or free agency. Not to mention we lost 3 LD within the organization during the previous 6 weeks, the decision there is baffling. I like to try and stay neutral with Bergevin, give him props when he deserves, give him his lashings when he messes up, and this one is clearly a screw up in my eyes. You just can't justify not getting her done on a deal for Markov when you gut the position he plays during the summer, have no replacement on board, and cannot easily acquire an adequate replacement through other means.

I generally agree. The only thing is that I think that after acquiring Drouin, we had the potential to drastically improve our offense. As it stands, it doesn't look much better to me unless Plekanec becomes a top 6 caliber center again or both Drouin and Galchenyuk thrive at center. I am lesser than enthusiastic than most about seeing Danault in our top 6 and perhaps that is my own problem. 

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Stogey24    258
13 hours ago, DON said:

Hmmm...and I wonder who it is that's shoving poor Bergy into traffic? The Pessimists? The Disillusioned?:popcorn:

:devil:

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12 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It will be interesting to see how Dallas fares this season. Currently we have about 8.5 million free in cap space and the Stars have a little over 2 million. The difference in cap space between the teams is essentially Radulov's salary. Last season we ended with 103 points and the Stars ended with 79. I agree that we shouldn't have overpayed for Radulov because of the long term rammifications on the cap but ageing or not, I would have taken him on our team this season considering we do have the cap space. Once signed, he could also have been used as a trade chip himself, if we wanted relief from his cap hit in the future. My posts aren't really placing blame on Bergevin per se but with that being said, I don't think things went according to plan this off season.

 

In addition, I have mixed emotions about the fact that we don't have to shed salary to acquire one of those players back. On one hand that's great and all but are we really going to want to use Hudon or McCarron or Carr or DeLaRose as those trade chips right before we get to see them grow into their potential after having been so 'patient' with them? Are we ever going to develop players from within and see them play for our squad? On the complete opposite side of the coin, will they be enough to acquire top end players in addition to say, draft picks? They aren't exactly elite prospects at this point in time. 

I generally agree. The only thing is that I think that after acquiring Drouin, we had the potential to drastically improve our offense. As it stands, it doesn't look much better to me unless Plekanec becomes a top 6 caliber center again or both Drouin and Galchenyuk thrive at center. I am lesser than enthusiastic than most about seeing Danault in our top 6 and perhaps that is my own problem. 

 

It's not your problem. Danault would be OK as a second-line C behind a real stud. He's a good player, but he is a joke as a #1 pivot on a team that pretends it can contend. A strong team would have him as their third-line C. His presence on our top-6 is a symptom of fundamental organization weakness.

 

14 hours ago, DON said:

Hmmm...and I wonder who it is that's shoving poor Bergy into traffic? The Pessimists? The Disillusioned?:popcorn:

 

I'll buy "disillusioned." This GM had one job, which was to take a strong nucleus and upgrade it to bona-fide contender. The team hasn't improved since 2014, getting significantly older but no better. Meanwhile the development system is completely gutted. I can see someone saying he shouldn't be fired; but anyone who is brimmingly enthusiastic about Bergevin at this point is simply smoking crack.

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Link67    108
16 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It will be interesting to see how Dallas fares this season. Currently we have about 8.5 million free in cap space and the Stars have a little over 2 million. The difference in cap space between the teams is essentially Radulov's salary. Last season we ended with 103 points and the Stars ended with 79. I agree that we shouldn't have overpayed for Radulov because of the long term rammifications on the cap but ageing or not, I would have taken him on our team this season considering we do have the cap space. Once signed, he could also have been used as a trade chip himself, if we wanted relief from his cap hit in the future. My posts aren't really placing blame on Bergevin per se but with that being said, I don't think things went according to plan this off season.

 

In addition, I have mixed emotions about the fact that we don't have to shed salary to acquire one of those players back. On one hand that's great and all but are we really going to want to use Hudon or McCarron or Carr or DeLaRose as those trade chips right before we get to see them grow into their potential after having been so 'patient' with them? Are we ever going to develop players from within and see them play for our squad? On the complete opposite side of the coin, will they be enough to acquire top end players in addition to say, draft picks? They aren't exactly elite prospects at this point in time. 

I generally agree. The only thing is that I think that after acquiring Drouin, we had the potential to drastically improve our offense. As it stands, it doesn't look much better to me unless Plekanec becomes a top 6 caliber center again or both Drouin and Galchenyuk thrive at center. I am lesser than enthusiastic than most about seeing Danault in our top 6 and perhaps that is my own problem. 

 

 

I don't mind Danault as a 2C, it is not the best case scenario, but he could do a solid job there without being a major hindering on the roster. However I am absolutely done, and been done with not having a bonafide 1C who is capable of consistent 60+ point seasons.

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Stogey24    258
40 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

 

I don't mind Danault as a 2C, it is not the best case scenario, but he could do a solid job there without being a major hindering on the roster. However I am absolutely done, and been done with not having a bonafide 1C who is capable of consistent 60+ point seasons.

I just have this weird feeling Giroux is going to get traded to Montreal 

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Link67    108
1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

I just have this weird feeling Giroux is going to get traded to Montreal 

 

That would be helpful under a very specific set of circumstances.

 

- We don't give up any key roster pieces to get it done

- Philly retains some salary

 

otherwise we are just hanging ourselves

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Stogey24    258

Well I think if the second thing you said happens, then the first is surely to happen 

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DON    26
29 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

Well I think if the second thing you said happens, then the first is surely to happen 

Bergy said expect the unexpected, so Giroux deal would fit that for sure.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Link67 said:

 

That would be helpful under a very specific set of circumstances.

 

- We don't give up any key roster pieces to get it done

- Philly retains some salary

 

otherwise we are just hanging ourselves

 

Yep

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REV-G    18

Does anyone know of or think that there could be any possibility that Markov had built into his contract in the KHL an out clause that would allow him to return to the NHL [Montreal] mid season if the Haps came knocking, if they had a serious need? 

 

I have heard of some players having that sort of clause built in if the NHL came calling.....or was that only during a lockout season when many players signed to play somewhere overseas? 

 

Any precedent for this happening?? 

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DON    26
2 hours ago, REV-G said:

Does anyone know of or think that there could be any possibility that Markov had built into his contract in the KHL an out clause that would allow him to return to the NHL [Montreal] mid season if the Haps came knocking, if they had a serious need? 

 

I have heard of some players having that sort of clause built in if the NHL came calling.....or was that only during a lockout season when many players signed to play somewhere overseas? 

 

Any precedent for this happening?? 

forget about it

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Commandant    613
2 hours ago, REV-G said:

Does anyone know of or think that there could be any possibility that Markov had built into his contract in the KHL an out clause that would allow him to return to the NHL [Montreal] mid season if the Haps came knocking, if they had a serious need? 

 

I have heard of some players having that sort of clause built in if the NHL came calling.....or was that only during a lockout season when many players signed to play somewhere overseas? 

 

Any precedent for this happening?? 

 

Once he plays a KHL game after the start of the NHL season... he will need to clear waivers to return to the NHL during the year.   

 

It is highly unlikely he has an out clause during the season. 

 

it is possible he has an out clause next summer though. 

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REV-G    18

Ok, I guess that answers my question. It was just a thought. By next summer, he's be around 40, or close to it, so that's likely not happening.

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REV-G    18

If that were possible it would in all likelihood have happened a few months ago, before he signed with the KHL, and not now or in the next few months. 

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