Bergevin interviews and golf tournament notes

[zumpano21]

Met the architect of our last two Cups, Serge Savard, tonight.

 

Regrettably I didn't ask him if he was thinking of becoming GM again.

[BCHabnut]

Stephan Quintal gonna be gm next year? 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey, you never know. Some moves mid-season may elevate this squad to the level of an actual serious contender. 

 

Right now, with the GM pencilling in Dave Schlemko as our #2 d-man and the team still 'experimenting' with C while declaiming the virtues of Danault as a top-6 C, I agree with the bookies who have the Habs in the third tier when it comes to Cup odds. Which is pretty much where we've been since 2013.

 

After five years, Serge Savard had won one Cup, and had another Finals appearance. Within nine years he had two Cups. The contrast is, as Trump might say, sad.

[Meller93]

Lack of proven centermen, and losing Radulov aside, I actually think our forward group will take a step forward.

 

Improvements: Galchenyuk with a stable winger mentality and less pressure, will post 60+ points (If he's deployed on the right side). Gallagher will rebound to close to 20 goals and 40-50 points, Lehkonen will improve with time in the top 6 - 25 goals, 20 assists. 

No change: Pacioretty will pot his usual 35 goal, 65 point season. Danault will have around 40 points again. Shaw will score around 30. Plekanec stays in the 25-30 range. Drouin will effectively replace Radulovs points.

regression: Byron will regress by 10-15 points. 15 goals, 15 assists maybe.

 

What worries me though is the defence. Any offence we make up in our forward group we will in all likelihood lose from our defence. Jerabek Streit and Schlemko aren't replacing Markov, and to a lesser extent Beaulieu. What's scary is we still have an expensive defense with Weber, Petry and Alzner making 18 million dollars for about 70 points.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, Meller93 said:

Lack of proven centermen, and losing Radulov aside, I actually think our forward group will take a step forward.

 

Improvements: Galchenyuk with a stable winger mentality and less pressure, will post 60+ points (If he's deployed on the right side). Gallagher will rebound to close to 20 goals and 40-50 points, Lehkonen will improve with time in the top 6 - 25 goals, 20 assists. 

No change: Pacioretty will pot his usual 35 goal, 65 point season. Danault will have around 40 points again. Shaw will score around 30. Plekanec stays in the 25-30 range. Drouin will effectively replace Radulovs points.

regression: Byron will regress by 10-15 points. 15 goals, 15 assists maybe.

 

What worries me though is the defence. Any offence we make up in our forward group we will in all likelihood lose from our defence. Jerabek Streit and Schlemko aren't replacing Markov, and to a lesser extent Beaulieu. What's scary is we still have an expensive defense with Weber, Petry and Alzner making 18 million dollars for about 70 points.

 

Seems reasonable. Put it altogether, it's one big lateral move.

[Guest Stogey24]

The Alzner signing was the biggest head scratcher to me. If he doesn't get signed, Markov and Radulov are on this team with money to spare. 

 

[illWill]

 

58 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Seems reasonable. Put it altogether, it's one big lateral move.

 

I would enjoy a lateral season consisting of a division win and then seeing what happens in the playoffs. 

 

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

After five years, Serge Savard had won one Cup, and had another Finals appearance. Within nine years he had two Cups. The contrast is, as Trump might say, sad.

 

The contrast is that there were about half of the teams in the league then there are now and no salary cap

[JoeLassister]

But who won the golf tournament ?

[Scott462]

2 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

The Alzner signing was the biggest head scratcher to me. If he doesn't get signed, Markov and Radulov are on this team with money to spare. 

 

 

It's not to me, Alzner was brought in to establish a true second line an upgrade on the dumpster fire that it was last year with Emelin, Beaulieu and hell even Markov towards the end of the year.

 

Now Petry doesn't have to be the only one defensively responsible on his line like he had to be last year. I think this was an area that really needed to be addressed and was one of the reasons we lost to New York.

[Scott462]

56 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

But who won the golf tournament ?

 

I bet Mitchell won.

[Guest Stogey24]

28 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

It's not to me, Alzner was brought in to establish a true second line an upgrade on the dumpster fire that it was last year with Emelin, Beaulieu and hell even Markov towards the end of the year.

 

Now Petry doesn't have to be the only one defensively responsible on his line like he had to be last year. I think this was an area that really needed to be addressed and was one of the reasons we lost to New York.

We lost to new York because we couldn't score, not because we didn't have Karl Alzner; who was a #5 in the playoffs for Washington at times  

 

Petry responsible? You realize he led the Habs in turn overs last year. He was a dumpster fire, just as much as anyone 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

We lost to new York because we couldn't score, not because we didn't have Karl Alzner; who was a #5 in the playoffs for Washington at times  

 

Petry responsible? You realize he led the Habs in turn overs last year. He was a dumpster fire, just as much as anyone 

 

Well, Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin, though. I think we can all agree on that. But I agree with you that lack of scoring is the team's main problem. And I have a lot of trouble seeing how subtracting a 40-point d-man fixes that.

4 hours ago, illWill said:

 

 

I would enjoy a lateral season consisting of a division win and then seeing what happens in the playoffs. 

 

 

The contrast is that there were about half of the teams in the league then there are now and no salary cap

 

Yep, I think this is the big dividing line between MB's supporters and his critics. Grumps like me feel that his job is to make the team clearly better, and to elevate it to top-tier contender status. His supporters really seem to feel that it's 100% fine to ice a playoff team annually because 'anything can happen.' (Even though all that ever seems to 'happen' to MB's teams is eliminations due to lack of scoring...but I digress)

[Scott462]

1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

We lost to new York because we couldn't score, not because we didn't have Karl Alzner; who was a #5 in the playoffs for Washington at times  

 

Petry responsible? You realize he led the Habs in turn overs last year. He was a dumpster fire, just as much as anyone 

 

Scoring was definitely one of the reasons we lost I completely agree but it was also defensive breakdowns from guys like Markov /Emelin/Beaulieu who were responsible for many goals against. Alzner was injured towards the end of the year and didn't play in the playoffs. But at the beginning of the year he shared duties on the top pairing.

 

I agree Petry had his fair share of defensive lapses which is why the second pairing was a dumpster fire with him being the only one playing defense. Now we have Alzner for that.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

39 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

Scoring was definitely one of the reasons we lost I completely agree but it was also defensive breakdowns from guys like Markov /Emelin/Beaulieu who were responsible for many goals against. Alzner was injured towards the end of the year and didn't play in the playoffs. But at the beginning of the year he shared duties on the top pairing.

 

I agree Petry had his fair share of defensive lapses which is why the second pairing was a dumpster fire with him being the only one playing defense. Now we have Alzner for that.

Good theory until we end up seeing Alzner playing on the top pairing with Weber simply out of necessity. Then it  becomes nothing more than a justification and our true void will become apparent. 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep, I think this is the big dividing line between MB's supporters and his critics. Grumps like me feel that his job is to make the team clearly better, and to elevate it to top-tier contender status. His supporters really seem to feel that it's 100% fine to ice a playoff team annually because 'anything can happen.' (Even though all that ever seems to 'happen' to MB's teams is eliminations due to lack of scoring...but I digress)

It's true because while I don't yet consider myself fully a supporter or fully a harsh critic, I was upset with the off season due to

the fact that I can't see us winning a cup this year as a result of some of the moves that were made and the cap space we have left.

 

While I am fully aware that things could change during the season with our cap space, there seem to be supporters of his who are genuinely happy with the current roster overall at this point in time. They are happy with our slight improvement on offense, willing to overlook our defense and how we let Markov walk and happy with the reality that anything is possible with the cap space we have dangling in the air.

 

I'm not a critic of his in the overall grand scheme of things but right at this moment I guess I could be called that and I will be until those improvements have been made. My opinion is that while last year's trade deadlines truly did have slim pickings, this summer was an opportunity to at least address our glaring needs.

 

It can be argued that we traded for Drouin to finally be that #1 center but I believe him being played there is simply as a result of necessity. Even after acquiring Drouin, most people were like "okay, our right win is now stacked".  But it had to be him or Galchenyuk. That's generally fine, but we still need another top 6 center who has played that role before.  Even with Drouin, our depth at center isn't great unless Plekanec returns to form, and I believe that about 5% of the fan base could see that happening and perhaps another 35-40% are pleased with Danault in the role.

 

Even if we hopefully consider that our center situation has improved, we already needed help on our top pairing defense and acquiring our center created another void at top pairing LHD in the longterm and then we also signed no one to help it out in the short term. There is a constant musical chairs going around and while most teams do have holes to be filled, there seems to be clear issues with our makeup and all I'm complaining about is that we had the cap space to allow us to be a better squad than we currently are. It's already hard enough to win a cup as it stands, and now it becomes even tougher.

 

Good enough to make the playoffs, yet difficult to imagine winning it all.

[Scott462]

1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Good theory until we end up seeing Alzner playing on the top pairing with Weber simply out of necessity. Then it  becomes nothing more than a justification and our true void will become apparent. 

 

I'm not that worried if that is the case Weber has a dendancy to make his partner play above his capabilities a good example of that is Emelin for a majority of the year.

 

Still I think MB brought in Alzner specifically for Petry to have an all around solid 2nd line. Ben will solidify the 3rd with someone like Lernout or whoever wins the job during camp.

 

Weber can play with anyone.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, Scott462 said:

 

I'm not that worried if that is the case Weber has a dendancy to make his partner play above his capabilities a good example of that is Emelin for a majority of the year.

 

Still I think MB brought in Alzner specifically for Petry to have an all around solid 2nd line. Ben will solidify the 3rd with someone like Lernout or whoever wins the job during camp.

 

Weber can play with anyone.

Of course Weber can make anyone look good and I was going to add that to my post. That's not fully the point though and not a justification for not having a top pairing left handed caliber defenseman on the roster. Maybe Alzner is, but one thing that is for certain is that he won't be helping contribute to our offense. 

 

The argument you responded to was Stogey questioning why we would sign Alzner instead of Markov (& Radulov) It seemed you were arguing that the Alzner signing made sense because Petry needed a responsible partner so the point that he'd be fine with Weber is moot because it doesn't validate the Petry needing a stabilizing partner argument.

 

(Big) If Alzner does end up playing top pairing minutes then he does in effect become Markov's replacement. If he doesn't, then "anyone" can play with Weber.  If that's the case, we may as well play Streit there! (As I once suggested, due to the same reason... Weber can "make anyone look good".)

 

The difference is that you see that as a positive and I see it as an issue that should have been fixed. We went through much of the season with Emelin on the top pair and seemingly did not learn our lesson and then didn't resign the player who should have been there all along and would have been the best option again, admittedly probably for only one more year.

 

I don't expect it to happen, but if Weber gets injured, who leads our defensive corps? The answer is probably Petry as much as some would say Alzner. If we signed Markov? The answer would have been Markov.

[Scott462]

I think the main point I was trying to make in regards to Alzner is that we needed a good defensive defenseman on the left side that we just do not have. We have Weber and Benn and Alzner now on the left which gives a solid D man on every pair which is something we did not have last year.

 

Now Markov. I wish we could of signed him but he's 39 and he could drop off a cliff in a second and personally is no longer capable to play 1st line minutes anymore and needs his minutes limited. I would rather like to take a stab at one of the other guys and hope Weber can mold a capable 1st line, if he can then that sets up a solid set of pairings down the line up.

 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

If Bergevin's reasoning for not signing Markov to a deal is the expectation that he does not continue being Markov all of a sudden, then he will deserve some credit if that does become the case. His current form in the KHL doesn't suggest that this will be the case though and so if Markov does well this season and the Habs do not, I think it will be fair to criticize Bergevin about it, even if we do make other moves throughout the season.

 

The difference in cap hit was probably at most 1 million in both the Radulov and Markov scenarios, and that's a realistic viewpoint. If Bergevin's idea was that Markov would regress this season and we should use the cap space elsewhere, I wouldn't be so harsh on him. As it stands, we did not use it on anything else (Streit) and likely will not until later in the season when any cap hit we take on will be reduced. 

 

I stand by the thought that regardless of the specific player/contract we're talking about, we could have signed at least one more effective player this off season and still had a chance to better our team anyway later in the season.

 

On a completely different note, I find it amusing that Darren Dietz is leading the KHL in scoring amongst defensemen. Too bad he's a righty. Not to mention he's not in our system anymore.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I also don't like double posting but lastly, just as much as our defense needs to be good defensively, we don't have many players who can generate offense on the left side. In my opinion, Streit is the best offensively out of any of our left handed defensemen and if that's not an issue, to each their own and we're going to need a lot of power plays.

[DON]

12 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Of course Weber can make anyone look good and I was going to add that to my post. That's not fully the point though and not a justification for not having a top pairing left handed caliber defenseman on the roster. Maybe Alzner is, but one thing that is for certain is that he won't be helping contribute to our offense. 

 

The argument you responded to was Stogey questioning why we would sign Alzner instead of Markov (& Radulov) It seemed you were arguing that the Alzner signing made sense because Petry needed a responsible partner so the point that he'd be fine with Weber is moot because it doesn't validate the Petry needing a stabilizing partner argument.

 

(Big) If Alzner does end up playing top pairing minutes then he does in effect become Markov's replacement. If he doesn't, then "anyone" can play with Weber.  If that's the case, we may as well play Streit there! (As I once suggested, due to the same reason... Weber can "make anyone look good".)

 

The difference is that you see that as a positive and I see it as an issue that should have been fixed. We went through much of the season with Emelin on the top pair and seemingly did not learn our lesson and then didn't resign the player who should have been there all along and would have been the best option again, admittedly probably for only one more year.

 

I don't expect it to happen, but if Weber gets injured, who leads our defensive corps? The answer is probably Petry as much as some would say Alzner. If we signed Markov? The answer would have been Markov.

Markov's minutes had been reduced every year for past few and why they didn't want him playing with Weber...too old and slow to play big minutes all year long. 

What if player X gets injured seems weak argument for anything.

[Toronthab]

19 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

But who won the golf tournament ?

Exactly... Focus people! 

 

Any Habs seen shopping around town?

 

Bergeron have any home renovation  tips?

 

Investment tips for people with negative bank balances?

 

 

 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Markov's minutes had been reduced every year for past few and why they didn't want him playing with Weber...too old and slow to play big minutes all year long. 

What if player X gets injured seems weak argument for anything.

Markov's minutes were reduced until

we realized someone like Emelin shouldn't be playing top pair minutes and had no other option. I was on the exact same boat as you are, thinking we needed someone outside of Markov to play those minutes but we had no one else last season and still don't this season. That's the point.

 

Markov also played fine in the role. If one thinks Markov is too old and slow, that doesn't change the fact that someone should be acquired to fill his role. The truth is, we didn't resign Markov because of a cap hit, not because of minutes. So use the money.  We also signed a 39 year old, too slow Streit soon after.

 

Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin so perhaps that's "good enough" for some, although it still isn't clear if he will be playing on the top pair or elsewhere. 

 

My hope was further strengthened by perhaps the blind faith that we had a youthful Sergachev in line to potentially replace Markov on the top pair in the future. Could that have been this season? Since "anyone" can play with Weber, it's certainly a possibility and names like Jerabek have even been thrown out as a potential candidate for the top pair, so I would have to think it would have at least been considered. 

 

Instead, we have a hole on the top pair and our only main trade chip that was used, albeit for an exciting return, was someone who may have filled that hole. Even if he wasn't, we didn't resign anyone to do so, including a player who would have at least been able to produce offense from the back end.

 

What if someone gets injured is certainly a weak argument until it demonstrates a lack

of depth in a certain area. It's not being used to demonstrate how much we would miss a Weber, it's being used to demonstrate that we won't have an effective top pair without him in response to the claim that we can have one at the moment due to the fact that Weber can help make "anyone" look like they belong and that we have a legitimate top pair.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Markov's minutes were reduced until

we realized someone like Emelin shouldn't be playing top pair minutes and had no other option. I was on the exact same boat as you are, thinking we needed someone outside of Markov to play those minutes but we had no one else last season and still don't this season. That's the point.

 

Markov also played fine in the role. If one thinks Markov is too old and slow, that doesn't change the fact that someone should be acquired to fill his role. The truth is, we didn't resign Markov because of a cap hit, not because of minutes. So use the money.  We also signed a 39 year old, too slow Streit soon after.

 

Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin so perhaps that's "good enough" for some, although it still isn't clear if he will be playing on the top pair or elsewhere. 

 

My hope was further strengthened by perhaps the blind faith that we had a youthful Sergachev in line to potentially replace Markov on the top pair in the future. Could that have been this season? Since "anyone" can play with Weber, it's certainly a possibility and names like Jerabek have even been thrown out as a potential candidate for the top pair, so I would have to think it would have at least been considered. 

 

Instead, we have a hole on the top pair and our only main trade chip that was used, albeit for an exciting return, was someone who may have filled that hole. Even if he wasn't, we didn't resign anyone to do so, including a player who would have at least been able to produce offense from the back end.

 

What if someone gets injured is certainly a weak argument until it demonstrates a lack

of depth in a certain area. It's not being used to demonstrate how much we would miss a Weber, it's being used to demonstrate that we won't have an effective top pair without him in response to the claim that we can have one at the moment due to the fact that Weber can help make "anyone" look like they belong and that we have a legitimate top pair.

 

To my mind, the issue is less "who plays with Weber" - not anyone can do so, but he is definitely the modern answer to what Markov used to be, the all-purpose defender who always covers for his partner's sins - than the simpler fact that have a dearth of puck-moving defencemen. Like I say, Bergevin seems to be the only GM in the world who does not believe in an offensive push from the blueline. You've got Weber's insane shot and 15-20 goals guaranteed (although even he is a first-pass guy, not a 'puck mover' per se); you've got Petry's adequate-but-not-elite puck-moving abilities; and after that it's a tire fire, offensively speaking. It's as if he's built a team for the pre-Bobby Orr era.

 

The good news is the D-corps is hard-nosed and likely to be tough to play against down low, assuming that footspeed doesn't become an issue against an increasingly speedy league. (Imagine Weber + Alzner - what a shutdown duo that could be). But where the offence will come from apart from Weber, that's tough to see, unless Streit has some sort of resurgence or Jerabek explodes.

 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

To my mind, the issue is less "who plays with Weber" - not anyone can do so, but he is definitely the modern answer to what Markov used to be, the all-purpose defender who always covers for his partner's sins - than the simpler fact that have a dearth of puck-moving defencemen. Like I say, Bergevin seems to be the only GM in the world who does not believe in an offensive push from the blueline. You've got Weber's insane shot and 15-20 goals guaranteed (although even he is a first-pass guy, not a 'puck mover' per se); you've got Petry's adequate-but-not-elite puck-moving abilities; and after that it's a tire fire, offensively speaking. It's as if he's built a team for the pre-Bobby Orr era.

 

The good news is the D-corps is hard-nosed and likely to be tough to play against down low, assuming that footspeed doesn't become an issue against an increasingly speedy league. (Imagine Weber + Alzner - what a shutdown duo that could be). But where the offence will come from apart from Weber, that's tough to see, unless Streit has some sort of resurgence or Jerabek explodes.

 

 

I agree. Everything I've stated assumes that the top pairing defenseman should have some semblance of offensive capability as seems to be the case in today's NHL. We definitely have some decent players on the back end individually, I just expect some players to play in roles they are not built for. I'm one of the more rare Emelin fans and yet still agree that Alzner-Weber would be a better first pair than Emelin-Weber if that were to happen. I just have to believe that losing a 40 point defenseman has to hurt a team who was able to afford him. 

 

I understand that Markov is old but the cap hit is the reason we didn't sign him, not his age. The amount of dollars he signed for, wouldn't have changed his position in the lineup. Even if you have Alzner and Weber on the top pair, you can then place Markov on any of the other lines and have the potential to generate offense from the back end on another one of our pairs. We would be more dangerous with him on the team.

 

I seem to be on an endless rant but it's also not just the single moves I'm pointing out that are the cause. People have good arguments such as Markov's age but the counter arguments seem to always omit some details. Bergevin clearly stated at the beginning of free agency that he had an offer on the table for Markov. As a result, it's not like Bergevin made the assessment at the end of last season that Markov would be too old to be a productive piece of our team going forward. And all I'm saying is that he should have used the cap space if cost was the concern with Markov.

 

Not all teams have to use cap space. Boston has room.  San Jose has room. We have room. The difference is that we seemed to be saving it for something based on two free agents we didn't resign and then used it on nothing. It's possibe we use it, but at this point I have a hard time imagining that we will use the amount saved.