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2017-18 NHL Thread

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6 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Good start to the day for tankers..

 

Edmonton wins and moves three points clear, Buffalo wins and is only 6 back, Chicago loses which is good for our 2nd round pick, 

 

Hopefully Ottawa and Vancouver can find some points tonight. And Habs lose of course. 

 

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Van has already exceeded expectations by actually scoring a goal. :o Don't ask for the moon!

 

Vancouver and Detroit are putting on a master class in tanking. We get no further help for The Tank tonight outside of a point from NYR and the Habs pathetic display against the Leafs. 

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1st rounders:

2008-none

2009-Leblanc

2010-Tinordi

2011-Beaulieu

2013-McCarron

When draft UGLY like this, doesn't help one bit and I think 99% now would agree McCarron is a total bust and not even good enough for 4th line duty in NHL.

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4 hours ago, DON said:

1st rounders:

2008-none

2009-Leblanc

2010-Tinordi

2011-Beaulieu

2013-McCarron

When draft UGLY like this, doesn't help one bit and I think 99% now would agree McCarron is a total bust and not even good enough for 4th line duty in NHL.

 

🤮

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Can the off season start already, man this season feels like it’s never going to end.😩

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1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Can the off season start already, man this season feels like it’s never going to end.😩

I don't really see how next season is going to be much different 

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10 minutes ago, Habopotamus said:

I don't really see how next season is going to be much different 

Well game 1we will have a 500 record so Thats something to look forward to 😔

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10 hours ago, Habopotamus said:

I don't really see how next season is going to be much different 

 

*Carey Price gets healthy

*Shea Weber doesn't miss most of the season

*Bergevin spends to the cap

 

Better season

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

*Carey Price gets healthy

*Shea Weber doesn't miss most of the season

*Bergevin spends to the cap

 

Better season

 

 

 

 

Yep. I can't wait for all the praise heaped upon MB when the Habs make the playoffs and get eliminated in round one (or, if they're lucky, round two). 'What a turnaround!' will be the narrative :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. I can't wait for all the praise heaped upon MB when the Habs make the playoffs and get eliminated in round one (or, if they're lucky, round two). 'What a turnaround!' will be the narrative :rolleyes:

 

My point is merely that it won't be hard for next season to be better than this season. I should have also included a high draft pick potentially joining the lineup. 

 

I also think that if Montreal were to win a round next season it would be worthy of praise, just the same as this season is worthy of dumping on him. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. I can't wait for all the praise heaped upon MB when the Habs make the playoffs and get eliminated in round one (or, if they're lucky, round two). 'What a turnaround!' will be the narrative :rolleyes:

Who cares if he receives praise? I want the team to be better and think they will be but don’t care one way or the other what people will say about Bergevin. The team needs to get better and if they do, Bergevin will have just been doing his job. But again, who cares if people blindly praise him, as long as the team actually does better in the standings?

 

I don’t believe it has a huge impact on whether or not he keeps his job when fans praise him, or conversely, when they dismember him. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. I can't wait for all the praise heaped upon MB when the Habs make the playoffs and get eliminated in round one (or, if they're lucky, round two). 'What a turnaround!' will be the narrative :rolleyes:

Though I’m not a ken Campbell fan, the hockey news has a great article in the reversal of roles/fortunes of the leafs and habs.  I see a lot of “wait until next year comments, when we are healthy and the high draft picks we’ll get” on this site now - just like I used to hear from leafs fans in the 80’s. 

 

Didnt we hear the the same rhetoric a couple of years ago when Price went down.  Just like the leafs, we moved out prized draft pick, before he could play for us and miscast the player we got for him in a role he is not suited to play.

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7 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Who cares if he receives praise? I want the team to be better and think they will be but don’t care one way or the other what people will say about Bergevin. The team needs to get better and if they do, Bergevin will have just been doing his job. But again, who cares if people blindly praise him, as long as the team actually does better in the standings?

 

I don’t believe it has a huge impact on whether or not he keeps his job when fans praise him, or conversely, when they dismember him. 

You maybe happy if we can just get better and get in the playoffs.  I want a legitimate cup contender.  That’s not happening next year or anytime during MB’s reign.

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59 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

My point is merely that it won't be hard for next season to be better than this season. I should have also included a high draft pick potentially joining the lineup. 

 

I also think that if Montreal were to win a round next season it would be worthy of praise, just the same as this season is worthy of dumping on him. 

 

No. The goal is to build a Cup contender. THAT is his job. He has had six years to do it and has failed miserably at constructing anything that is even in the vicinity of Cup contention. Making the playoffs and crapping out in round one or two next season will remain a failure by that standard. That was the underlying point of my post: a reversion to 2017 standards next season will be hailed by many as a "turnaround" when in fact the 2017 standard is itself a failure.

 

This amazes me. We have forgotten that in 2015 this organization was knocking on the door, on the outer rim of serious Cup contention. Now, thanks to Bergevin's leadership, we're talking about winning a playoff round as a success.

 

It is clear from some of the responses to my post that Bergevin has succeeded in lowering the bar to such an astonishing degree that many Habs fans would, indeed, be so foolish as to be grateful for a return to mediocrity. We truly are in pre-Shanahan Leafs territory.

 

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35 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You maybe happy if we can just get better and get in the playoffs.  I want a legitimate cup contender.  That’s not happening next year or anytime during MB’s reign.

It’s easy to say that our GM won’t build a cup contender for next year but in reality how many GMs would actually build a cup contender (on paper) in one single off season. 

 

It’s also easy to argue that we’ve never been a cup contender under Bergevin considering we’ve never won the cup. This is where my opinion will differ, considering there have been a few seasons where we’ve had a legitimate shot.

 

The wildcard as to whether or not we can be a cup contender, whether it is “first tier”, “second tier”, or whatever “tier”, is Carey Price. If he cannot regain his level from before, then we will indeed have no chance. Ironically, that is something that is completely out of Bergevin’s hands.

 

I disliked our off season last season, and for the first time in my life, I knew we could not compete with our roster this season, but Carey Price also played much worse than anticipated.

 

The nay sayers will now find some sort of argument that the fact we can compete in any given year due to Price is “exactly how Bergevin wants us to feel” or that the Carey Price cushion is exactly the reason that we won’t be able to compete; because we don’t surround him with talent and expect him to hold down the fort.  But it’s not our fault as fans that we have (potentially) the best goalie in the world and any team in the league with the best goalie, as long as he actually performs like it, should have a chance to

compete.

 

I will not be “happy” with a better team next season. I simply expect it because this season was terrible. 

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38 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It’s easy to say that our GM won’t build a cup contender for next year but in reality how many GMs would actually build a cup contender (on paper) in one single off season. 

 

1

 

Its not about one season.  He's had 6 years and hasn't got the job done. 

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24 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

 

Its not about one season.  He's had 6 years and hasn't got the job done. 

Exact same can be said for 27+ other GMs over past 6 years, what is your point?

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12 minutes ago, DON said:

Exact same can be said for 27+ other GMs over past 6 years, what is your point?

 

And in the last 6 years a number of gms have lost their jobs for the same.

 

And the trajectory of this team has been downward... not upward and its not one year

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38 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

 

Its not about one season.  He's had 6 years and hasn't got the job done. 

Anyone negative about the Habs will be against him, although if anything I’m a little bit negative about him as well. My point is that although we haven’t won the cup under his tenure, we’ve had some decent teams while he has been here. The negative people will always claim that this is only in spite of him... because of things that he only inherited, for example.

 

The point is also true that judging by some people’s definition of contender on here, there’s only one contender every year. As a result, 30 teams “weren’t” contenders in any given year. 

 

The topic of discussion is whether or not we can compete next year and I believe we can. If some people want to say that’s despite of Bergevin, fine by me. Is the likeliest scenario that we are eliminated in the first round? Perhaps, but even with a very good team, most playoff rounds are a battle and some very good teams will lose in the first round this year as well as next year.

 

It’s really hard to live life with the expectation that we should get to the finals. It’s funny that some people get criticized for having the mentality that the players themselves have. “Get into the playoffs and anything can happen.” And then based on individual perspective this concept is delusionally twisted to mean that one is simply “happy” to get into the playoffs. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Anyone negative about the Habs will be against him, although if anything I’m a little bit negative about him as well. My point is that although we haven’t won the cup under his tenure, we’ve had some decent teams while he has been here. The negative people will always claim that this is only in spite of him... because of things that he only inherited, for example.

 

The point is also true that judging by some people’s definition of contender on here, there’s only one contender every year. As a result, 30 teams “weren’t” contenders in any given year. 

 

The topic of discussion is whether or not we can compete next year and I believe we can. If some people want to say that’s despite of Bergevin, fine by me. Is the likeliest scenario that we are eliminated in the first round? Perhaps, but even with a very good team, most playoff rounds are a battle and some very good teams will lose in the first round this year as well as next year.

 

It’s really hard to live life with the expectation that we should get to the finals. It’s funny that some people get criticized for having the mentality that the players themselves have. “Get into the playoffs and anything can happen.” And then based on individual perspective this concept is delusionally twisted to mean that one is simply “happy” to get into the playoffs. 

 

 

Atlantic Division is on the rise. Highly unlikely the Habs make the playoffs next season without some significant moves 

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22 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Anyone negative about the Habs will be against him, although if anything I’m a little bit negative about him as well. My point is that although we haven’t won the cup under his tenure, we’ve had some decent teams while he has been here. The negative people will always claim that this is only in spite of him... because of things that he only inherited, for example.

 

The point is also true that judging by some people’s definition of contender on here, there’s only one contender every year. As a result, 30 teams “weren’t” contenders in any given year. 

 

The topic of discussion is whether or not we can compete next year and I believe we can. If some people want to say that’s despite of Bergevin, fine by me. Is the likeliest scenario that we are eliminated in the first round? Perhaps, but even with a very good team, most playoff rounds are a battle and some very good teams will lose in the first round this year as well as next year.

 

It’s really hard to live life with the expectation that we should get to the finals. It’s funny that some people get criticized for having the mentality that the players themselves have. “Get into the playoffs and anything can happen.” And then based on individual perspective this concept is delusionally twisted to mean that one is simply “happy” to get into the playoffs. 

 

 

 

Our team is much worse than the one he started with.

 

He believes in a model that doesn't work anymore and after 6 years of working towards that outdated model he now understands that speed and skill is needed.

 

He has had 6 years to address the centre issue

 

He traded away a franchise defenseman, built for todays nhl

 

He traded away a potential franchise defenseman built for todays nhl to see if a good winger can play centre

 

He negotiates poorly with important players (Subban, Markov, Radu) and offers big contracts to support players (Shaw).

 

He continues to live in the foxhole and he should have fired his buddy Lefebvre a long time ago

 

How can anyone continue to support him?

 

Please fire him now

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It’s easy to say that our GM won’t build a cup contender for next year but in reality how many GMs would actually build a cup contender (on paper) in one single off season. 

 

It’s also easy to argue that we’ve never been a cup contender under Bergevin considering we’ve never won the cup. This is where my opinion will differ, considering there have been a few seasons where we’ve had a legitimate shot.

 

The wildcard as to whether or not we can be a cup contender, whether it is “first tier”, “second tier”, or whatever “tier”, is Carey Price. If he cannot regain his level from before, then we will indeed have no chance. Ironically, that is something that is completely out of Bergevin’s hands.

 

I disliked our off season last season, and for the first time in my life, I knew we could not compete with our roster this season, but Carey Price also played much worse than anticipated.

 

The nay sayers will now find some sort of argument that the fact we can compete in any given year due to Price is “exactly how Bergevin wants us to feel” or that the Carey Price cushion is exactly the reason that we won’t be able to compete; because we don’t surround him with talent and expect him to hold down the fort.  But it’s not our fault as fans that we have (potentially) the best goalie in the world and any team in the league with the best goalie, as long as he actually performs like it, should have a chance to

compete.

 

I will not be “happy” with a better team next season. I simply expect it because this season was terrible. 

He’s had 6 years.  Six friggin years!! We aren’t getting better.  We have gotten worse each year. Slower, less skilled, but yeah, he addressed some of the AVERAGE team size concerns.

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41 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Anyone negative about the Habs will be against him, although if anything I’m a little bit negative about him as well. My point is that although we haven’t won the cup under his tenure, we’ve had some decent teams while he has been here. The negative people will always claim that this is only in spite of him... because of things that he only inherited, for example.

 

The point is also true that judging by some people’s definition of contender on here, there’s only one contender every year. As a result, 30 teams “weren’t” contenders in any given year. 

 

The topic of discussion is whether or not we can compete next year and I believe we can. If some people want to say that’s despite of Bergevin, fine by me. Is the likeliest scenario that we are eliminated in the first round? Perhaps, but even with a very good team, most playoff rounds are a battle and some very good teams will lose in the first round this year as well as next year.

 

It’s really hard to live life with the expectation that we should get to the finals. It’s funny that some people get criticized for having the mentality that the players themselves have. “Get into the playoffs and anything can happen.” And then based on individual perspective this concept is delusionally twisted to mean that one is simply “happy” to get into the playoffs. 

 

 

There is only one contender each year???? Really??? So Pittsburgh, TBL, Nashville, Boston, even friggin Winnipeg (who have never one a playoff series) and the first year vegas golden knights are all legitimate contenders - albeit the top 4 listed above are the most serious contenders.

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25 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Our team is much worse than the one he started with.

 

He believes in a model that doesn't work anymore and after 6 years of working towards that outdated model he now understands that speed and skill is needed.

 

He has had 6 years to address the centre issue

 

He traded away a franchise defenseman, built for todays nhl

 

He traded away a potential franchise defenseman built for todays nhl to see if a good winger can play centre

 

He negotiates poorly with important players (Subban, Markov, Radu) and offers big contracts to support players (Shaw).

 

He continues to live in the foxhole and he should have fired his buddy Lefebvre a long time ago

 

How can anyone continue to support him?

 

Please fire him now

I don’t see anyone supporting him. What I do see is people clamoring about the past and worrying about things he has yet to do in an overly irrational way. We already know he won’t be fired and that’s not even the topic of discussion. The discussion was whether or not we can be better next year. If we do make moves and spend more of our cap space, we should have an improved squad. Price also

needs to return to form. I have an odd feeling he’s going to be pretty good for the rest of this season if and when he returns.

 

I don’t support Bergevin. I don’t think he’s one of the better gms. I do acknowledge that he is our general manager and do find it a realistic possibility that he can have a better off season than last season, thus improving our team.

 

“It isn’t just one season” 

 

This year was much worse than most and if there isn’t more of an extreme change during this off season, I would be surprised even in Bergevin. I’m not saying I have any more patience left, but there has not been such a public uprising in the crappiness of our team other years as there has been this season. The levels of ineptitude in previous seasons are up for debate. Some people didn’t like the deadline two years ago, others thought there really was nothing available. 

 

It seems many expect a linear path to greatness. Just because this year was his worst, doesn’t mean next year couldn’t be his best. If people think there has been a linear downward trend during Bergevin’s tenure, again that is up for debate.

 

We are going to make some major moves this off season and I will refer judgement until then.

 

I would have liked Bergevin to be fired but it’s possible for him to make decent moves after the debacle of this season. We can’t undo all the things he’s done in the past but I think Reilly was a good pickup, for example. 

 

There is a difference between supporting Bergevin and blindly following him versus understanding the reality that he won’t get fired because Molson openly said so and rationalizing that at the very least the opportunity for positive change in player personnel is there. 

 

On the other hand, there is also a difference between criticizing Bergevin and hypothesizing that the only possible moves he will make in the future will be moves like Mete and a second for Mike Fisher.

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19 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

There is only one contender each year???? Really??? So Pittsburgh, TBL, Nashville, Boston, even friggin Winnipeg (who have never one a playoff series) and the first year vegas golden knights are all legitimate contenders - albeit the top 4 listed above are the most serious contenders.

Well at least we have it public here when I will openly say that out of those teams I think Pittsburgh is the only team there that has a legitimate shot at winning the cup. I would even bet. 

 

With that being said, my point was the opposite.

 

It’s other posts I see claiming that a team that loses in the second round never actually had a chance and weren’t truly a contender.  The retrospect view. That leaves only 4 teams that had a chance in their view, and that’s only until the very next round leaves only two teams that were “actually” contenders. 

 

I believe the opposite, that most teams that make the playoffs have some sort of shot. It just won’t be Tampa, Boston or Nashville this year! Vegas definitely not and Winnipeg is my only maybe.

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1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Well at least we have it public here when I will openly say that out of those teams I think Pittsburgh is the only team there that has a legitimate shot at winning the cup. I would even bet. 

 

With that being said, my point was the opposite.

 

It’s other posts I see claiming that a team that loses in the second round never actually had a chance and weren’t truly a contender.  The retrospect view. That leaves only 4 teams that had a chance in their view, and that’s only until the very next round leaves only two teams that were “actually” contenders. 

 

I believe the opposite, that most teams that make the playoffs have some sort of shot. It just won’t be Tampa, Boston or Nashville! Vegas definitely not and Winnipeg is my only maybe.

:huh:

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