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Who's to blame when it comes to Galchenyuk?

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Stogey24    237

Ya, well all know playing fourth line is the best way to boost a players confidence. Can't wait to see Galchenyuk's  offensive explosion with two players who are barley nhl caliber

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chuko23    2
1 hour ago, lazy26 said:

 

Excellent first post! Welcome to HW!

Thanks! Glad to find a place for some talk about the Habs. Got tired of RDS with all the trolls and haters. 

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DON    23
1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

Ya, well all know playing fourth line is the best way to boost a players confidence. Can't wait to see Galchenyuk's  offensive explosion with two players who are barley nhl caliber

Image result for sarcastic Memes

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BCHabnut    152
2 hours ago, chuko23 said:

Thanks! Glad to find a place for some talk about the Habs. Got tired of RDS with all the trolls and haters. 

This is a great forum. I started with a lot of these guys on ESPN boards in around 2001. Surprisingly, activity has been slow for the last couple years, but it isn't because of lack of quality. This is a quality forum. 

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Toronthab    291
On ‎2017‎-‎10‎-‎14 at 2:37 PM, dlbalr said:

 

Downvoting a single post from time to time is fine.  Downvoting a large sequence all at once is where people tend to get their backs up.  That's not a double standard, that's two different situations entirely.

 

And no, just because someone calls you out does not make everything fair game.  And if I didn't make it clear earlier, it stops here (not just for you either to make that as clear as possible).

 

If you still have questions or concerns, I'd appreciate it if you would send me a PM and that way we can allow the thread to get back on track.

Can I down vote my posts? I've read some of them. They're terrible!

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Toronthab    291
4 hours ago, lazy26 said:

 

Excellent first post! Welcome to HW!

A voice of reason, balance and patience. I should try that some time. 

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Toronthab    291
6 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

This is a great forum. I started with a lot of these guys on ESPN boards in around 2001. Surprisingly, activity has been slow for the last couple years, but it isn't because of lack of quality. This is a quality forum. 

With the exception of my posts I agree. 

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Toronthab    291
2 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Ya, well all know playing fourth line is the best way to boost a players confidence. Can't wait to see Galchenyuk's  offensive explosion with two players who are barley nhl caliber

I've been struggling with offensive explosions recently. Diet?

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Commandant    607
22 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

 

Chucky has been the topic of debate well before CJ even came. There were talks of MT misusing him. Yes, he scored 30 but he was a -8. AS good as he was putting the puck in the net, he was still on the ice more often when the other team was scoring... not that it was always his fault, obviously, but it's still a telling stat. 

(Pacs scored 30 that year and was a -10. )

 

The next year he regresses to 17 and is a -5. 

This year he is a -2. 

 

Any coach likes + players. 

I'm a Chucky fan. I just think he hasn't handled it very well. He seems mopey, down in the dumps. He doesn't have a defined role because he hasn't earned it. 

I'd trade him for Duchy and get a player with a more defined role. 

 

 

Are we really using +/- in 2017?  Seriously?

 

+/- has very little to do with defensive play, especially in the 2015-16 season when Carey Price was injured and we had the worst goaltending in the NHL from December 1st to the end of the season.  Anyone who played a lot of minutes in front of Scrivens and Condon that year was going to be a minus player, despite that Chucky was a positive possession player. 

 

He was also a positive possession player for most of last year.  When he was at Center he was over 50% corsi.  On the wing, he was slightly below. But when playing center, a positive possession guy.  

 

This year, again, he is a positive possession player, even though on the wing.  A -2 over a five game sample is meaningless, especially when the team PDO is so bad. 

 

Sorry but +/- just isn't a meaningful or reliable stat when we have so many other things to look at now. 

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Commandant    607
3 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Ya, well all know playing fourth line is the best way to boost a players confidence. Can't wait to see Galchenyuk's  offensive explosion with two players who are barley nhl caliber

 

Exactly, even if he is partially to blame... he's not going to get his confidence back if the organization doesn't show confidence in him. 

 

He scores a beauty goal last game.  Plays a pretty good game at both ends. 

 

What is the reward?  Stays on the fourth line all game, back to the fourth line today.  How is he supposed to break out of the funk like that?

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12 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Exactly, even if he is partially to blame... he's not going to get his confidence back if the organization doesn't show confidence in him. 

 

He scores a beauty goal last game.  Plays a pretty good game at both ends. 

 

What is the reward?  Stays on the fourth line all game, back to the fourth line today.  How is he supposed to break out of the funk like that?

 

Yeah, that was a really questionable coaching choice. 

 

The thing with Galy is, this kid overcame a season-ending injury to make the jump right into the NHL and succeeded. That was when he was 18. Why is he suddenly now, as a five-year veteran, insufficiently resilient to overcome the psychological effects of a much less severe injury? 

 

He is to blame, sure, but I really think the signals suggest a poisoned relationship with the new coach. CJ probably refuses to accept his defensive limitations - typical bull-headed stupid old-school coaching - and it's in Galy's head. If, as I strongly suspect, he just doesn't have the hockey smarts to be defensively sound, then he's been put in a no-win situation.

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DON    23
16 hours ago, Commandant said:

 How is he supposed to break out of the funk like that?

He (himself) best figure that out...Byron did just dandy on the 4th line and Galchenyuk has tad more skill that he does. Playing vs 3rd pairing d and grinders should also help him produce.

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Commandant    607
20 minutes ago, DON said:

He (himself) best figure that out...Byron did just dandy on the 4th line and Galchenyuk has tad more skill that he does. Playing vs 3rd pairing d and grinders should also help him produce.

 

He's not the same player as byron.  One is a pure north/south guy who has blazing speed.  He doesn't need linemates. 

 

The other is a skilled and creative player.  If Galchenyuk is making moves... finding open spaces... making great passes, and his linemates are plugs... it won't work.  You need creative players to play with a creative player. 

 

Again, you want to treat all players as if they are the same, as if they are robots.  They aren't.  A skilled coach has to work with each player in his own way to get the best out of him, for the sake of the team. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

 

Again, you want to treat all players as if they are the same, as if they are robots.  They aren't.  A skilled coach has to work with each player in his own way to get the best out of him, for the sake of the team. 

 

 

Amen, brother. As I've said all thread, the verdict is very much out on whether Julien can work with Galchenyuk. That is as much his failing as Galchenyuk - after all, we know for a fact that even that drooling dotard Therrien managed to do it.

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Link67    106

I thought after the showing He had in Toronto, Julien might want to fast track his re-entry into the top 9. It looks like Galchenyuk is going to have to string a few solid performances together to gain that favor. While I am not sold it is the best option, I am sold that the kid does not play the kind of hockey that thrives on a 4th line. I am under the impression the message being sent is his overall engagement and commitment on the ice is not adequate, and his skill alone will not be enough to earn him ice time if he can't couple it with a strong effort most shifts.

 

With that said, I understand the need to have a guy conform to the effort levels required by the staff, I understand the need to have players understand getting by on skill alone is not how you get it done. I understand that Galchenyuk has struggled with ups and downs since his return from injury last season, His start to the season was poor, right from the start of pre-season. However, all things considered, if he has another good outing, production aside, and looks hungry out there, eager to make s**t happen on the ice, then I won't understand leaving him out of the top 6 any longer than that.

 

1. For his own ability to produce and get himself feeling good about his game again. For him to see if he works every shift he will be put in a position to be productive.

2. For the team's sake, and its ability to produce more offense while in its current dodgey state.

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10 minutes ago, Link67 said:

I thought after the showing He had in Toronto, Julien might want to fast track his re-entry into the top 9. It looks like Galchenyuk is going to have to string a few solid performances together to gain that favor. While I am not sold it is the best option, I am sold that the kid does not play the kind of hockey that thrives on a 4th line. I am under the impression the message being sent is his overall engagement and commitment on the ice is not adequate, and his skill alone will not be enough to earn him ice time if he can't couple it with a strong effort most shifts.

 

With that said, I understand the need to have a guy conform to the effort levels required by the staff, I understand the need to have players understand getting by on skill alone is not how you get it done. I understand that Galchenyuk has struggled with ups and downs since his return from injury last season, His start to the season was poor, right from the start of pre-season. However, all things considered, if he has another good outing, production aside, and looks hungry out there, eager to make s**t happen on the ice, then I won't understand leaving him out of the top 6 any longer than that.

 

1. For his own ability to produce and get himself feeling good about his game again. For him to see if he works every shift he will be put in a position to be productive.

2. For the team's sake, and its ability to produce more offense while in its current dodgey state.

 

A thoughtful post. I'm just worried that CJ's problem with Galy goes beyond 'effort' and extends to an insistence that he play a sound defensive game. And if that's how it is, then I suspect Galy will never come out of it, because he's an essentially one-dimensional player.

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Link67    106

While I can certainly agree with that feeling it still seems like the bigger picture is effort, I think if Galchenyuk put forth a real effort most shifts towards the defensive side of the game as much as the offensive one, it would help him out a ton. Regardless if he makes the right defensive play, or decision in that moment, show the staff you are committed to the play with or without the puck. I feel like they could excuse his poor defensive execution, if he at least makes himself look hungry to retrieve the puck, look eager to prevent a play going back into our zone. A commitment to the defensive side of the game does not have to mean he will make the right choice defensively every time, but to show your coach and your team mates that you will take a real "Dog and Bone" approach to both sides of the puck, the rest can be worked around.

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xXx..CK..xXx    138

If a coach pulls Victor Mete aside and tells

him to be our screen on the goalie in the offensive zone, I'm sure he'll do it but it would still be the wrong coaching decision. You can tell Galchenyuk all day long to be defensively responsible but if it's something that takes away from what he's really good at, then it should not remain his central focus 10 or 20 games into the season.

 

In tennis you have three types of shots, aggressive, neutral and defensive and some players are simply more akin to playing one way or the other. The best coaches will explain to their player that there are these three different types of shots and that each is best suited for a specific situation. A general rule would be to respond defensively when your opponent hits an attacking ball and to attack when they give a short ball. Neutral paced or rally balls are also very important.

 

The coach would then watch the student play and take a look at his strengths and weaknesses. If the student was an aggressive player, the coach wouldn't necessarily tell him that he needs to learn to be more passive. Instead, he would work around the fact the player is aggressive and point out that he only cares about the student's aggressive play when it causes an unforced error. If the error was unforced, the shot selection simply should have been a more neutral paced ball or defensive. 

 

The coach would not try to change the player into being a more all round defensive player, floating lobs back to the other side of the court all day long. This would be making the player "think" too much and take away from what is most important, their instinct. 

 

In the situation presented, Galchenyuk would be given free will to play his natural style. By allowing this, the coach would be free to see if there are actually any common tendencies when it comes to specific situations where Galchenyuk's defense costs us Grade A scoring chances or goals. Instead of making him think beforehand about being defensively responsible, you give him the opportunity to

actually show that he's not and then yell

at him once for that specific mistake. You don't want to make it his central focus.

 

Now, I do believe that a lot of inferences have been made here by myself as well as others. Maybe Julien actually did give him some free reign when he took over and "saw enough". Also, maybe he hasn't made him focus solely on being defensively responsible, although why else would he be demoted to the 4th line two years in a row? I also don't think any of us actually know that Galchenyuk is "mentally soft" or needs to be coddled in any which way. These are all general inferences. We don't really know for a fact that tough love is the wrong way to coach him even if we do agree that players need to be coached on an individual basis. 

 

I'm also not sure that Galchenyuk is necessarily playing with players on the 4th line who aren't "suited" for that style. Hemsky is another skilled base player who's actually been going through a similar funk to Galchenyuk and they both find themselves on the 4th line. I think they actually could produce playing with each another. I'm more concerned about the amount of minutes 4th liners get.

 

If he does get 4th line minutes but a bunch of power play time as well, he's actually been given some opportunity to produce. So while I do agree that one cannot overlook the impact a coach has on a player, especially if he's making players like Drouin and Galchenyuk focus a little too much on the other side of the puck, I do think Julien has mixed in some of this tough love with opportunity. I liked Therrien but if a player were in his doghouse, they'd see the 4th line as well as no power play time. Julien seems to be letting Galchenyuk know he has faith in his offense by giving him these opportunities. I just think he's also been indirectly hindering it by having Galchenyuk think too much about everything as well as the wing/4th line treatment.

 

It's been stated many times though that in the end, only Galchenyuk can handle it to the best of his capabilities and whether we like everything else or not, the performance of his season will rest mainly on his shoulders. 

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Commandant    607
On 10/14/2017 at 2:37 PM, Habs owned the 70's said:

 

Sure no problem, I got a thick skin.

 

Don't think that I haven't noticed that you have continually gone back and downvoted some of my old posts... about 1-2 per day. 

 

Wow you're a jackass. 

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