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Habsfan1989

Who's to blame when it comes to Galchenyuk?

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Habsfan1989    4

This organization has miss handled galchenyuk, so I was wondering who gets the blame? Is it the fact that we over valued him at 3 and should of traded the pick for a center? If the guy can't play center why did we draft him to play center?Or does the blame fall on the development department in this organization?

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Meller93    123

This question might never be answered, but I think realistically it's a bit of both. The best players don't get "ruined". 

 

Mcdavid went to a terrible oilers team and turned them around.

 

Matthews went to a terrible leafs team, and they're turning around.

 

Crosby, Kane, Stamkos etc all the same story. 

 

Of course you NEED a surrounding cast as well; no one single handedly fixes a team. Example Tavares.

 

But Galchenyuk simply isn't that calibre and we need to stop hoping he will be. In my opinion, Galchenyuk has the potential to be a T.J. Oshie or Jason Pominville level player. I.e,. Able to put up 60-70 points for a couple years, but he will never be THE guy. He is a wonderful complimentary peice. A poor mans Phil Kessel.

 

Thus far, I don't think our management has capitalized on what he has to offer. That seems to be a trend with this management group (PK Subban comes to mind) but I don't think they ruined him either.

 

At this point, trading Galchenyuk could be the best thing for us AND him.

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DON    27

Galchenyuk is responsible for his own fortunes. Can lead a horse to water and has been noted Kirk Muller has had animated conversation with Galchenyuk post practice...but the onus is on the kid to work harder or smarter??

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sbhatt    18

The guy should be a perennial 30+ goal scoring winger, provided you put him with a decent center.  HE HAS NO DECENT CENTER TO PLAY WITH IN MTL....same problem any winger has if they are in this organization, sadly.  Odds are that he continues to struggle and we trade him on the low, then watch him succeed playing with a good center on another team.

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illWill    423
1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

The guy should be a perennial 30+ goal scoring winger, provided you put him with a decent center.  HE HAS NO DECENT CENTER TO PLAY WITH IN MTL....same problem any winger has if they are in this organization, sadly.  Odds are that he continues to struggle and we trade him on the low, then watch him succeed playing with a good center on another team.

 

Max Pacioretty's goal totals in the last 5 full seasons: 33, 39, 37, 30, 35. 

 

Max Pacioretty's center for most of that: David Desharnais, with a sprinkle of Philip Danault

 

So tell us exactly again how it's the "same problem any winger has if they are in this organization". 

 

 

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PMAC    81

I agree that both parties are to blame and that trading Galchenyuk might be best. However, trading him right now-- at his lowest value is poor asset management. If you trade him, fine, but showcase him on the 1st or 2nd line first. It's not like any of our lines are lighting it up so far

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The kid is a mystery. I really don't think you can look at him and go, 'he was superbly well handled all along.' I mean, he was thrown into the NHL with minimal pro seasoning, first of all. Then he was tossed between C and W amidst fervent fan speculation, which probably didn't help his confidence or his sense of where he fits. Then a new coach comes in and bumps him, humiliatingly, to the 4th line, which he has yet to claw out of, really. He also confronted an organizational philosophy that does not focus on a player's strengths but rather his weaknesses, a very common old-school mentality but one that tends to turn useful players into 'problems' if the weaknesses are not easily fixed. (Subban is another example, easily the best non-goalie the Habs have drafted and developed since Lafleur, and yet the organization ultimately could not get over the fact that he did not kowtow to Therrien and had his own 'brand').

 

But Meller93 makes some good points about how a really great player would just punch through all that crap and excel, just as Subban did. Galy is not such a player.

 

I'm warming to the conclusion that, at the end of the day, Galchenyuk is not very bright. His defensive struggles may owe to a basic inability to read the play properly - and truth be told, his game has always been more of an individual game (deadly shot, dancing through the opposition) than seeing the whole ice and using his teammates creatively. He may ultimately turn out to be less than the sum of his parts for just this reason.

 

I hate to say it, but with the way things are going that dreaded Duschene-Galy trade looks more and more plausible.

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DON    27
1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

The guy should be a perennial 30+ goal scoring winger, provided you put him with a decent center.  HE HAS NO DECENT CENTER TO PLAY WITH IN MTL....same problem any winger has if they are in this organization, sadly.  Odds are that he continues to struggle and we trade him on the low, then watch him succeed playing with a good center on another team.

Odds? Yes slim ones. But you seem a terribly cynical 'fan', so of course you can only see the most pessimistic of outcomes.

 

35 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Max Pacioretty's goal totals in the last 5 full seasons: 33, 39, 37, 30, 35. 

So that must mean Pacioretty is just that much better a player than Galchenyuk and odd's are that he would be god-damn Ovechkin-like, if only had a all-star centre.:spamafote:

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xXx..CK..xXx    146

I've posted before that I believe Galchenyuk should have been given a longer leash in the past due to his offensive potential. With that being said, I think it's only in the past 20-40 games or so that he's been mishandled.

 

It's a little bit overblown with him because through all these distractions, he continues to produce. Two years ago he scored 30 goals, and last year he was on pace for 60 points had he not got injured.

 

My opinion is that while coaches have thrown him all over the place and fans have complained about him and his usage, he has usually continued to produce despite all that. As a result, If the question is why does he have 0 points through 3 games, I would place the blame on him more than anyone.

 

It's entirely speculation because who knows what causes what? It could be that Galchenyuk is not playing up to his potential but that could be for a variety of reasons. He could be squeezing his stick, he could be pissed at Bergevin, Julien, or both.... He could be injured... etc. etc. Maybe he doesn't appreciate being told

he can't play center and is throwing an internal fit. That would come down to him regardless but the initial mental detriment would have been cause by the organization.

 

On the other hand, Duchene is going through something similar in Colorado, is playing with Yakupov and Kerfoot, and has 3 points in 3 games.

 

My thought is that while anything we're discussing comes down to Galchenyuk himself, he's also not playing particularly well right now. He has also been given opportunity on the power play and has not done much with it. 

 

For me, the mishandling would have to do with him not being trusted as a center, especially when he was placed as a 4th line winger instead. I've actually thought he's played some of his best games at that position. At the same time, I don't think there's ever been a situation where he's been pulled out of the role all the while having the fan base lose their minds due to the fact that he had been playing amazing. It's usually happened while he's struggling to an extent.

 

Long story short, I think most of the complaints should rest on Galchenyuk's shoulders, although he has been misused, especially recently by Julien. I also think that these "issues" are overblown and fully expect him to be capable of getting 55-65 points in a season. If that doesn't happen, maybe it is in part due to the way he's been used.

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illWill    423

Galchenyuk has found a familiar place on the 4th line today in practice. 

 

Who's to blame? I think it's fairly evident that it's entirely his fault, he has looked terrible to start the season. Usually he gets by with his skills and lacks any form of hockey I.Q, but even his skills are quite lackluster so far. He can't create anything out there, can't play defense, and can't even make a pass on the tape. His lack of effort and production is directly related to a decent percentage of the Hab's scoring woes. The guy is "supposed" to be one of the offensive catalysts on this team but is letting his teammates and us fans down. I have no problem with him playing on the 4th line because that's exactly where he deserves to be at this point. 

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Habsfan1989    4
1 minute ago, illWill said:

Galchenyuk has found a familiar place on the 4th line today in practice. 

 

Who's to blame? I think it's fairly evident that it's entirely his fault, he has looked terrible to start the season. Usually he gets by with his skills and lacks any form of hockey I.Q, but even his skills are quite lackluster so far. He can't create anything out there, can't play defense, and can't even make a pass on the tape. His lack of effort and production is directly related to a decent percentage of the Hab's scoring woes. The guy is "supposed" to be one of the offensive catalysts on this team but is letting his teammates and us fans down. I have no problem with him playing on the 4th line because that's exactly where he deserves to be at this point. 

So wouldn't you then say its the scouts fault ? We should of picked someone else or traded the pick for a NHL ready top center.

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25 minutes ago, Habsfan1989 said:

So wouldn't you then say its the scouts fault ? We should of picked someone else or traded the pick for a NHL ready top center.

 

Galy was regarded as one of the top picks in the draft year, and for his first few seasons in the league as *the* best player from the draft. So I don't think we can blame scouts. It's not an exact science. I'm the first to criticize MB, but I won't criticize him for picking Galchenyuk - something nearly everyone on this board wanted him to do, incidentally.

 

Machine is quite right that hockey IQ is a big issue with Galchenyuk. It goes some distance to explaining his defensive woes too, since defending requires an ability to read the play and anticipate. But I would say that, if you have a player who is basically not too bright and probably will never really figure these things out, the coaches should probably accept his limitations and play to his strengths. We KNOW that he can play a 'torpedo' kind of game where he rifles shots past goalies and makes moves that create space and chances. We need to activate that part of his game and recognize that the rest may never come, IMHO.

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Link67    108

He has had his part to play in his troubles, he certainly seems to have taken the self-pitty, down on himself approach to his situation, on the ice anyway.

 

However with that said, the situation was allowed to fester by Therrien and Bergevin, and Julien is seemingly managing Galchenyuk based on the only performances he has seen for himself behind the bench, which really aren't all that good. Knowing and understanding how to deal with a fragile player who is regressing in the face of this particular adversity is crucial, and was obviously botched. It has negatively compounded over time, I used to just think they just needed to accept he was going to play the game in a one dimensional way, much like many players do, and take his offense, and cross their fingers every shift on the defense.

 

So we end up with a top 6 50+ point player who sucks at defense, is he the first? Nope. Is that scenario a heck of a lot better than the player we see now, who still sucks at defense, is no longer scoring, heck he is barely even turning in noticeable efforts. The snowball has reached a level now that his defensive play is not even the question anymore, it is his overall effort and commitment on the ice, he looks disinterested, disgruntled, and hardly ever looks menacing on the ice.

 

We went from 30 goals to a PPG to what we see now in less than 2 year, in a situation that ridiculous, their are a lot of people to blame, and their needs to be a lot of looking in the mirror.

 

 

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Stogey24    255
9 minutes ago, Link67 said:

He has had his part to play in his troubles, he certainly seems to have taken the self-pitty, down on himself approach to his situation, on the ice anyway.

 

However with that said, the situation was allowed to fester by Therrien and Bergevin, and Julien is seemingly managing Galchenyuk based on the only performances he has seen for himself behind the bench, which really aren't all that good. Knowing and understanding how to deal with a fragile player who is regressing in the face of this particular adversity is crucial, and was obviously botched. It has negatively compounded over time, I used to just think they just needed to accept he was going to play the game in a one dimensional way, much like many players do, and take his offense, and cross their fingers every shift on the defense.

 

So we end up with a top 6 50+ point player who sucks at defense, is he the first? Nope. Is that scenario a heck of a lot better than the player we see now, who still sucks at defense, is no longer scoring, heck he is barely even turning in noticeable efforts. The snowball has reached a level now that his defensive play is not even the question anymore, it is his overall effort and commitment on the ice, he looks disinterested, disgruntled, and hardly ever looks menacing on the ice.

 

We went from 30 goals to a PPG to what we see now in less than 2 year, in a situation that ridiculous, their are a lot of people to blame, and their needs to be a lot of looking in the mirror.

 

 

So wait a second here. You just spewed a whole novel of bull in another thread about how we're 4 games in and people need to an Advil, but yet you throw Galchenyuk right under the bus 4 games in. How does that make any sense at All?

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sbhatt    18
On 10/10/2017 at 3:37 PM, DON said:

Odds? Yes slim ones. But you seem a terribly cynical 'fan', so of course you can only see the most pessimistic of outcomes.

 

So that must mean Pacioretty is just that much better a player than Galchenyuk and odd's are that he would be god-damn Ovechkin-like, if only had a all-star centre.:spamafote:

 

You say I'm cynical, I say you're a gushing optimist that pukes confetti and farts glitter no matter how badly the team (or a particular player) is performing.  To each their own.

 

And yes, I think Max would have bagged goals in the mid-40s if he played with a quality center by now, absolutely....and I'm no big fan of Max's overall....but the guy is an elite shooter and were he being set up by a Crosby or a Backstrom he'd fill the net.

 

 

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sbhatt    18
5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Galy was regarded as one of the top picks in the draft year, and for his first few seasons in the league as *the* best player from the draft. So I don't think we can blame scouts. It's not an exact science. I'm the first to criticize MB, but I won't criticize him for picking Galchenyuk - something nearly everyone on this board wanted him to do, incidentally.

 

Machine is quite right that hockey IQ is a big issue with Galchenyuk. It goes some distance to explaining his defensive woes too, since defending requires an ability to read the play and anticipate. But I would say that, if you have a player who is basically not too bright and probably will never really figure these things out, the coaches should probably accept his limitations and play to his strengths. We KNOW that he can play a 'torpedo' kind of game where he rifles shots past goalies and makes moves that create space and chances. We need to activate that part of his game and recognize that the rest may never come, IMHO.

 

10/10

 

 

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Link67    108
4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

So wait a second here. You just spewed a whole novel of bull in another thread about how we're 4 games in and people need to an Advil, but yet you throw Galchenyuk right under the bus 4 games in. How does that make any sense at All?

 

 

Oh Yes because Galchenyuk's issues have only started 4 games ago right? Not the back half of last season, into this season at all, nope, never happened. he has only been a shell of himself for the last 4 games, you're right.

 

BraveKindlyBluemorphobutterfly-size_rest

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DON    27
1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

 

You say I'm cynical, I say you're a gushing optimist that pukes confetti and farts glitter no matter how badly the team (or a particular player) is performing.  To each their own.

Seems we both agree; I am OK being gushing optimist with huge pom-poms (see definition of fanatic) and I assume you are stuck with the total opposite (see definition of fickle). Also agree, to each their own, but when you spew foolishness what can one do.;)

 

I say Pacioretty would be similar to Kessel, who had 5 or 6 30+ goal seasons before going to play with centres Crosby and Malkin, where he has had 23 and 26 goal seasons. I just don't think who is playing with Galchenyuk is holding him back, I think is simply matter of confidence and he will get back on track and have a fine year. They said he hit two posts last game, couple more inches and he may be back on track already.:spamafote:

 

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DON    27

3rd hand post from HIO:

"Season is young but (Galchenyuk) has made more questionable passes than the USAF over the Korean peninsula"

 

m4Ef8Ofl_normal.jpg Rod Francis @InRodWeTrustMTL

.@GMillerTSN "Galchenyuk has 2 goals in 28 games, Max has 3 in 22. Alex is invisible for vast stretches...very concerning" #tsn690

Edited by DON
add tweet

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Commandant    610

Byron - Galchenyuk - Lehkonen

 

Just do it.  Give him to defensively responsible wingers who can also score and be done with the dame thing. 

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DON    27
2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Byron - Galchenyuk - Lehkonen

 

Just do it.  Give him to defensively responsible wingers who can also score and be done with the dame thing. 

Sure, but is just one of a hundred different combos that 'may' help Galchenyuk. How bout Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Lehkonen.

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Stogey24    255
1 hour ago, Link67 said:

 

 

Oh Yes because Galchenyuk's issues have only started 4 games ago right? Not the back half of last season, into this season at all, nope, never happened. he has only been a shell of himself for the last 4 games, you're right.

 

BraveKindlyBluemorphobutterfly-size_rest

3rd on the team in scoring last year, second in points per game, set franchise record with most OT goals in a season.

 

First half of the season he was a point per game player, second half he was mediocre, no question, but injuries were a contributing factor in that.

 

I wouldn't take it to the extent you did and say his defense sucks and he's not scoring or even turning in noticeable efforts. Unless your talking about the last 4 games.

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Stogey24    255
21 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Byron - Galchenyuk - Lehkonen

 

Just do it.  Give him to defensively responsible wingers who can also score and be done with the dame thing. 

I'd honestly like to see him back at centre or right wing. 

 

Julien doesn't like the kid and it's not going to help this team moving forward. 

 

I get that he hasn't been great, but I mean this team is starved for goals, they need to get this kid going. Fourth line duty is not the answer 

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Commandant    610
16 minutes ago, DON said:

Sure, but is just one of a hundred different combos that 'may' help Galchenyuk. How bout Gallagher-Galchenyuk-Lehkonen.

 

Gallagher is not near as good defensively as Byron and I also don't have him playing out of position. 

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Toronthab    300

I still think he's part of a marijuana sales pitch demonstrating that mind altering drugs taken during the day have no serious effects on intelligence, competence and drive. 

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