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Bergevin......

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xXx..CK..xXx    162
16 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Whom the Habs contacted for interview but went with Julien when Julien became available.

 

Despite the fact Gallant cannot speak French, they still contacted him.

That could just be to say they did. It doesn’t matter since he wasn’t hired. 

 

As for best coach available, I’d say Paul MacLean but he WAS born in France. :lol:

 

It’s hard to compare any coach to Julien and say they are better since he has won a cup in the NHL but let’s not kid ourselves in thinking that we didn’t hire him because he also speaks French. We’ve had him, and fired him before. He truly did not feel like a “new voice” for the organization, which is what we needed. 

 

Coaches like Ralph Krueger, Dallas Eakins and Dave Tippett will never get a sniff of a chance in Montreal and it wouldn’t matter if they were in the upper echelon.

 

All that aside, I’m not one that thinks coaching is our main issue even though I don’t love Julien.

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3 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

That could just be to say they did. It doesn’t matter since he wasn’t hired. 

 

I love how anyone who rants about the French Canadian culture situation just dismisses when the Habs contact someone who doesn't speak French.

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DON    37
9 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I love how anyone who rants about the French Canadian culture situation just dismisses when the Habs contact someone who doesn't speak French.

'Contact' does not equal running the team and likely cost little to interview a couple token English guys.

And if you don't think the language and contracting laws as well as the 19th century culture insecurity dosent deserve a rant or three, not sure what to say. 

 

 

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xXx..CK..xXx    162

And I love how someone arguing that the French language situation isn't an issue when it comes to our hiring of coaches brings up something that hypothetically happened behind closed doors over a phone.

 

Let's see the article where it says the Habs contacted Gallant, or do I need to talk to one of your close buddies?

 

Having hired Cunneyworth temporarily is a better example than some brief talk the Habs apparently had with Gallant. 

 

Then we have your argument that we aren't apparently hiring the best French candidates available anyway and yet you don't think there were any English speaking candidates who were better than Julien? Or is your argument only specific to the AHL where apparently the best AHL coach is Tampa's AHL coach? 

 

I don't understand your point. Just because we have a limitation when it comes to the language our coach speaks, this does not guarantee that we should be a shoe in for every "best available" French speaking individual, for every position in the organization. This only furthers the point that there is an issue. 

 

If you can have English speaking coaches on your team, then we can decide, do we want the best available English speaking coach or the best French speaking coach? "Who's the better candidate?" If  you think the Habs had a chance at hiring Babcock if they wanted to when he was available, okay keep thinking that. I'm sure the Habs reached out but couldn't afford him. As it stands, we are limited to the French contingent, and well, that doesn't make us any more special than any other team when it comes to hiring them either. All 29 other teams might want that "best available" French speaking coach. Tampa Bay is just as much allowed to have that AHL coach as the Habs are, and so is every other team. 

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Stogey24    280

So what Gallant went for an interview. They hired a French coach at the end of the day 

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Stogey24    280
1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

And I love how someone arguing that the French language situation isn't an issue when it comes to our hiring of coaches brings up something that hypothetically happened behind closed doors over a phone.

 

Let's see the article where it says the Habs contacted Gallant, or do I need to talk to one of your close buddies?

 

Having hired Cunneyworth temporarily is a better example than some brief talk the Habs apparently had with Gallant. 

 

Then we have your argument that we aren't apparently hiring the best French candidates available anyway and yet you don't think there were any English speaking candidates who were better than Julien? Or is your argument only specific to the AHL where apparently the best AHL coach is Tampa's AHL coach? 

 

I don't understand your point. Just because we have a limitation when it comes to the language our coach speaks, this does not guarantee that we should be a shoe in for every "best available" French speaking individual, for every position in the organization. This only furthers the point that there is an issue. 

 

If you can have English speaking coaches on your team, then we can decide, do we want the best available English speaking coach or the best French speaking coach? "Who's the better candidate?" If  you think the Habs had a chance at hiring Babcock if they wanted to when he was available, okay keep thinking that. I'm sure the Habs reached out but couldn't afford him. As it stands, we are limited to the French contingent, and well, that doesn't make us any more special than any other team when it comes to hiring them either. All 29 other teams might want that "best available" French speaking coach. Tampa Bay is just as much allowed to have that AHL coach as the Habs are, and so is every other team. 

So true

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I'm not super-crazy about Julien, but do we really believe that he is the problem? 

 

I come back to my standard theory: apart from a handful of maybe five elite coaches and a couple of duds, most NHL coaches are basically interchangeable. 

 

I'd also note that the Habs won two Cups and reached a third Final with three different coaches in the Serge Savard era: the incompetent Jean Peron, the formidable Pat Burns, and the gutsy Jacques Demers. Funny how the 'bilingual coach' requirement didn't stop those teams from contending. Oh yeah, that's right - those teams actually had good players. Imagine.

 

The real issue with our coaching is that we clung to Therrien several months after we should have dumped him. This is symptomatic of the smug complacency and self-protective lack of accountability in the MB regime. 

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DON    37
4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I'm not super-crazy about Julien, but do we really believe that he is the problem? 

 

I come back to my standard theory: apart from a handful of maybe five elite coaches and a couple of duds, most NHL coaches are basically interchangeable. 

 

I'd also note that the Habs won two Cups and reached a third Final with three different coaches in the Serge Savard era: the incompetent Jean Peron, the formidable Pat Burns, and the gutsy Jacques Demers. Funny how the 'bilingual coach' requirement didn't stop those teams from contending. Oh yeah, that's right - those teams actually had good players. Imagine.

 

The real issue with our coaching is that we clung to Therrien several months after we should have dumped him. This is symptomatic of the smug complacency and self-protective lack of accountability in the MB regime. 

How many hall of famers were on the 86-89-93 Habs teams?

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hab29RETIRED    174
28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I'm not super-crazy about Julien, but do we really believe that he is the problem? 

 

I come back to my standard theory: apart from a handful of maybe five elite coaches and a couple of duds, most NHL coaches are basically interchangeable. 

 

I'd also note that the Habs won two Cups and reached a third Final with three different coaches in the Serge Savard era: the incompetent Jean Peron, the formidable Pat Burns, and the gutsy Jacques Demers. Funny how the 'bilingual coach' requirement didn't stop those teams from contending. Oh yeah, that's right - those teams actually had good players. Imagine.

 

The real issue with our coaching is that we clung to Therrien several months after we should have dumped him. This is symptomatic of the smug complacency and self-protective lack of accountability in the MB regime. 

He is the problem when he relegates galchenyuk to the 4th line on a team that can’t score in the playoffs and if it eventually reaults in a seguin type trade.

 

a coach constantly focusing on the negatives of a player that should be one of the stars on the team isn’t doing the player or the team any good.

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

He is the problem when he relegates galchenyuk to the 4th line and eventually ends up results in a seguin type trade.

 

Yeah, I agree with that. But I think the wider point made in my post stands. The fundamental issue is management and the players it has assembled. Coaching is just shuffling deck chairs at this point. 

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DON    37
38 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Your point being - ?

Just a question.

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Stogey24    280
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah, I agree with that. But I think the wider point made in my post stands. The fundamental issue is management and the players it has assembled. Coaching is just shuffling deck chairs at this point. 

I personally think if you're getting rid of Bergevin, Julien should be packing too. 

 

Why are players regressing under Julien?  Maybe that's a little unfair to say, but Pacioretty and Galchenyuk have both looked out of sorts 

 

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3 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

I personally think if you're getting rid of Bergevin, Julien should be packing too. 

 

 

 

I don't care what happens to Julien either way. But I think the likeliest scenario may be that, were MB to be fired, the new GM would agree to keep him around for a while, if for no other reason than to save Molson some dough. Julien has a lot of 'cred' so an incoming GM would probably be willing to do that.

 

The issue with Galy is a ricochet off the underlying error of not firing MT after the 2015-16 season. Had we done what any normal organization would have done and fired him after that debacle, we could have had a new coach come in in the fall of 2016 and offer a comprehensive re-assessment of the players assembled under the Bergevin 'rebuild.' We then could have acted at last year's trade deadline in a fashion informed by that assessment. Instead, we traded PK Subban for no discernable reason other than to please a coach who ended up getting fired soon after, and now we are 98% likely to be dumping Galy at his lowest possible value in order to please that coach's replacement; meanwhile we wasted yet another prime year of the Price/Patches era in 2016-17 to the ensuing chaos. All this, because Bergevin does everything he can to shield his bum-buddies from accountability.  Like I say, it's all a symptom of this underlying problem.

 

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xXx..CK..xXx    162
3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't care what happens to Julien either way. But I think the likeliest scenario may be that, were MB to be fired, the new GM would agree to keep him around for a while, if for no other reason than to save Molson some dough. Julien has a lot of 'cred' so an incoming GM would probably be willing to do that.

 

The issue with Galy is a ricochet off the underlying error of not firing MT after the 2015-16 season. Had we done what any normal organization would have done and fired him after that debacle, we could have had a new coach come in in the fall of 2016 and offer a comprehensive re-assessment of the players assembled under the Bergevin 'rebuild.' We then could have acted at last year's trade deadline in a fashion informed by that assessment. Instead, we traded PK Subban for no discernable reason other than to please a coach who ended up getting fired soon after, and now we are 98% likely to be dumping Galy at his lowest possible value in order to please that coach's replacement; meanwhile we wasted yet another prime year of the Price/Patches era in 2016-17 to these ensuing chaos. All this, because Bergevin does everything he can to shield his bum-buddies from accountability.  Like I say, it's all a symptom of this underlying problem.

 

With this specific team, coaching is not the number one issue. Personally, I even stated that in one of my posts. 

 

When you proceed to talk about how the real underlying issue is not having fired Therrien at a convenient time, this is in effect (potentially) a by-product of having a limited pool of options to replace him with. That's where coaching becomes an issue within the organization. I find it to be no coincidence that Therrien got fired when a coach of Julien's pedigree became available. The issue? We had to keep Therrien for longer than he was welcome (although I slightly liked him). 

 

Some argue that "Therrien was chosen over player x" and others state that Therrien was simply Bergevin's "rear-end buddy" (I hadn't even noticed you did as well) but perhaps a coach like Therrien gets a longer leash within an organization that hires only French speaking coaches. 

 

If it’s hard enough to find a competent coach in general, it’s sure as heck hard to find a competent French speaking one with perfect timing.

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DON    37
3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

With this specific team, coaching is not the number one issue. Personally, I even stated that in one of my posts. 

 

When you proceed to talk about how the real underlying issue is not having fired Therrien at a convenient time, this is in effect (potentially) a by-product of having a limited pool of options to replace him with. That's where coaching becomes an issue within the organization. I find it to be no coincidence that Therrien got fired when a coach of Julien's pedigree became available. The issue? We had to keep Therrien for longer than he was welcome (although I slightly liked him). 

 

Some argue that "Therrien was chosen over player x" and others state that Therrien was simply Bergevin's "rear-end buddy" (I hadn't even noticed you did as well) but perhaps a coach like Therrien gets a longer leash within an organization that hires only French speaking coaches. 

 

If it’s hard enough to find a competent coach in general, it’s sure as heck hard to find a competent French speaking one with perfect timing.

Therrien 2.0, Julien 2.0...so we all can see it coming and Vigneault 2.0 will be next retread.

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