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Bergevin......


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2 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Well you just said "two contracts screw a team?"

 

Two contracts Can easily screw a team. Look at what Edmonton has tied up in two players 

 

In Montreal's case, it's not Alzner that I care so much about, but paying Weber almost 8 million until he's 40 and Price 10.5 million until he's 39. That's going to cause problems at some point. 18.3 million dollars tied up in two players.

Price wasn't part of buddy's beef, so irrelevant.

And Weber's is paid SFA in last 4 years

 

What is the matter with Oilers paying up for star players? Is commonly done when have 2 of best players in NHL.

 

Do I like extra long contracts, no. Are they simply a cost of doing business for every team, yes.

 

I thought many here were fine offering Radulov whatever he wanted in salary and term and now are endlessly criticizing that Bergy didn't just toss a boatload of $$ or blank cheque at him? Now you are arguing the opposite? Cant have cake and eat it as well sir, gotta pick your poison.

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1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

You just said two contracts can't screw a team. I'm simply explaining how they can. 

You didn't explain anything, you basically quoted a salary figure that many teams deal with. And you do know Habs could fit another all-star quality player with spare change they have under the cap, so if you can, please dumb it down and tell me how 2 salaries have screwed this team? 

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21 hours ago, DON said:

How would you rate Nick Carriere's coaching, I assume the Rocket's GM is happy with his work.:flaming:

 

He's the coach for the forwards with Dufresne handling the defence.  Considering this team can't score unless the front line carries them (see last night's game), he can't get too high of a grade. 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

You didn't explain anything, you basically quoted a salary figure that many teams deal with. And you do know Habs could fit another all-star quality player with spare change they have under the cap, so if you can, please dumb it down and tell me how 2 salaries have screwed this team? 

Seems like I constanly need to dumb it down for you  

 

You literally said two contracts can't screw over a team. I'm not specifically referencing Montreal of having this issue, but I'm saying two players taking up 18.3 milion in cap space, when they're 35+, could turn into an issue. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

Seems like I constanly need to dumb it down for you  (was a gimmie for you)

 

You literally said two contracts can't screw over a team. I'm not specifically referencing Montreal of having this issue, but I'm saying two players taking up 18.3 milion in cap space, when they're 35+, could turn into an issue. 

 

 

Could turn into an 'issue', is not same as screwing a team to re-build, it handcuffs a Bowman but he isn't screwed and manages (likely much smarter than average GM of course). Again I don't 100% disagree, but Alzner's contract....come on!:surrender:

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4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

I seriously dis like Alzner. 5 years was just a dumb move 

 

All of the dumb moves involve our D core. 

 

I cant help think this is the result of a former forward position player who didn’t understand the D position then and has taken no steps to understand it now.

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6 minutes ago, zumpano21 said:

 

All of the dumb moves involve our D core. 

 

I cant help think this is the result of a former forward position player who didn’t understand the D position then and has taken no steps to understand it now.

1

 

Bergevin was a defenceman.

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On 20/12/2017 at 4:57 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Here is yet another problem with the Bergevin regime. It used to be the case that the Habs' AHL team was a proving-ground for bilingual NHL coaches. That's where Pat Burns, Claude Julien, and Guy Boucher came from. And this makes a lot of sense. If you have a language requirement, then it pays to invest in such coaches so you have them ready to hand when it's time to make a switch.

 

Bergevin has Sylvain Lefebvre in place down there. Sounded good five years ago. Problem is, after all this time, nobody on planet earth seems to think Lefebvre is a credible NHL coaching candidate. What does Accountability Marc do? Does he fire the bum and replace him with someone who might actually become a quality NHL head coach? No. He leaves him there, despite his track record of failure - and thus leaves the organization with one fewer option when it comes to hiring a new coach. It's all of a piece with Bergevin's general refusal to demand accountability of his own loyal bum-buddies, and as with other manifestations of that phenomenon, it hurts the organization.

Agreed! I can't believe Lefebvre is still the coach in the AHL. His track record us aweful. How he's managed to stay the coach for so long baffles me!

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Sell: Plekanec, Shaw, Schlemko, Benn & Fucale

Shop: Pacioretty, Weber, Galchenyuk & Lindgren

Waive: Morrow

 

Rest of the season, if must:

 

Drouin Danault Gallagher

Byron JDLR Lehkonen

Hudon McCarron Scherbak

Carr Froese Deslauriers

 

Mete Petry

Alzner Juulsen

Jerabek Lernout

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Metallica said:

I don't understand how MB could take a team that was just 2 key players away from a possible Stanley cup win, and turning it into what it is now. 

Stubborn negotiating with stars and overpaying role players. 

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12 hours ago, Metallica said:

I don't understand how MB could take a team that was just 2 key players away from a possible Stanley cup win, and turning it into what it is now. 

 

It is a remarkable 'achievement.' The guy turned chicken salad into chicken sh*t.

 

And there are still doubts as to whether he will be fired....:bonk:

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The doubts about whether or not he will be fired or not simply indicate that we have a bigger organizational problem; namely, Geoff Molson needs to appoint a real hockey lifer( although one with a handle on the pulse of the NHL in 2018) as president.  It seems to me that, gasp, horror, we need to follow the model of other teams like the Leafs or Tampa 

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1 hour ago, PMAC said:

The doubts about whether or not he will be fired or not simply indicate that we have a bigger organizational problem; namely, Geoff Molson needs to appoint a real hockey lifer( although one with a handle on the pulse of the NHL in 2018) as president.  It seems to me that, gasp, horror, we need to follow the model of other teams like the Leafs or Tampa 

 

100%. It is more than possible that Molson is the real underlying problem here - which means we may never turn this ship around as long as he is in charge. Still, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and see how he responds to a pretty obviously unacceptable situation.

 

As for MB's replacement and GMing in general, I found this piece to be interesting: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/how-the-vegas-golden-knights-bunch-of-bad-ideas-became-a-miracle-in-the-desert/article37471738/ There's certain de-mythologizing of sports management here, combined with the observation that the Golden Knights' ridiculous success just exposes the depths of incompetence in more established organizations like Montreal.

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23 minutes ago, illWill said:

Nicolas Deslauriers wins the Molson Cup for December. Things are so bad in Hab land that a 4th liner who was scratched last game was deemed the best player of the month

I surely hope Molson/Bergevin see the writing on the wall for this season and arnt looking to patch up roster for some kind of playoff run. 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

I surely hope Molson/Bergevin see the writing on the wall for this season and arnt looking to patch up roster for some kind of playoff run. 

 

I agree totally. Let's hope that Geoff Molson doesn't bite on what Bergevin is probably offering these days in order to save his job. Something like, we'll use the money in the bak that we saved on Markov and Radulov and we'll sign [overpay] one or two rentals and we'll get into the playoffs where we all know anything can happen.

 

We have to hope that Molson doesn't agree to do what the Leafs did for so many years and either sneek into the playoffs or just miss getting in and in the process brilliantly moved themselves out of a desired [possibly lottery draft] position.  

 

If this were any other business, and entering their 6th year of running the show, and seeing where we have digressed to, I have no doubt that heads would already be rolling, in a properly run business.  So it's fair to ask, "Geoff, what are you waiting for? What more evidence do you need? Would you run Molson Breweries this way, with these kind of results? If other beer companies were soaring past you in sales would you put up with it?" No scoring, lousy defence, last or near the bottom of the league in many stats, almost certainly going to miss the playoffs, becoming a laughing stock in the league, terrible moves [two 2nds for Andrew Shaw], still no centre, losing the two Russians for nothing with no replacements, signing Mark Streit and Ales Hemsky....do we not have any scouts who told MB not to sign those two?? We are terrible at developing players. Bergevin has kept coaches at the NHL and AHL level where the results just aren't there. 

 

So when Don said that he hopes Molson/Bergevin aren't trying to add a few players for a playoff run....I think we should assume that Bergevin will, so Geoff Molson has to be the one to say...Ok, enough is enough...it's time for change!   

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These comments are way too premature. There’s no reason we should “assume” that Bergevin will make moves to “save his job” at the deadline if the Habs are clearly out of the picture. By the time the deadline comes around, the picture will be crystal clear as to whether the organization should be buyers or sellers. Buying pieces for a playoff run won’t be helpful in any form if the Habs don’t make the playoffs and so it wouldn’t save his job anyway. 

 

While I’ve questioned Bergevin at times myself, it becomes tiresome to see fans worrying about things that won’t actually happen. Bergevin will not trade Pacioretty for Lucic, Galchenyuk for Sam Garner and Bergevin will not be a buyer if the Habs are completely out of the picture. The most likely thing to happen, in my mind would be a player like Plekanec shipped out. 

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8 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

These comments are way too premature. There’s no reason we should “assume” that Bergevin will make moves to “save his job” at the deadline if the Habs are clearly out of the picture. By the time the deadline comes around, the picture will be crystal clear as to whether the organization should be buyers or sellers. Buying pieces for a playoff run won’t be helpful in any form if the Habs don’t make the playoffs and so it wouldn’t save his job anyway. 

 

While I’ve questioned Bergevin at times myself, it becomes tiresome to see fans worrying about things that won’t actually happen. Bergevin will not trade Pacioretty for Lucic, Galchenyuk for Sam Garner and Bergevin will not be a buyer if the Habs are completely out of the picture. The most likely thing to happen, in my mind would be a player like Plekanec shipped out. 

Those are surprising comments when you look at the evidence of what MB has done and where our team is right now. During his watch we have signed terrible players [Streit and Hemsky to name just two] when he should have know better. He lost players we desperately needed. He signed Carl Alzner and now we know why he was available. He traded two second round picks for Shaw. Under his watch we are currently either the worst or close to it compared to the teams I have watched for over 50 years. He has picked up some good depth players, but has done nothing to improve our top 6 forward or top 2 defence. If we kept the defencemen he has traded away or let go we would be far better on D than we are today. I personally think the players are really finding this hard. It is on Bergevin. He assembled this team.

 

You think these comments are premature?? We are trying to make a noice so they don't do what we're all afraid they will do and damage us even further. At this point I have zero confidence in Bergevin and unless Molson does something to prevent us from falling any further I will lose what confidence I still have in him. We have fallen from the top to just about the bottom. If you want to wait until the ship has totally sunk to say something, it will be too late. We're in big trouble right now!! We need new leadership!! Five to six years is more than an appropriate sample size. I don't need to see any more or endure any more seasons like this. I'll say it again. Molson would never run his beer company like this. People would have been fired a long time ago. It's time for change!! 

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I think the comments are premature because I still hold hope we can turn the season around. If the comments weren’t premature, I’d think they were completely incorrect altogether. If we are out of the playoff picture by the deadline, we will be sellers and if we are in the picture approaching the deadline, there’s nothing wrong with adding to the team. 

 

We will not be adding players to our roster if we are out of the picture. Considering we are out of the picture right now, I find very little reason to assume that Bergevin WILL make moves for a playoff run. 

 

The main comment I was referring to was the statement that we should assume Bergevin will add players for a playoff run. There’s no reason that he will do that, if the Habs are clearly out of the playoffs. That type of move would do little to save his job because the Habs wouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway. 

 

While Bergevin has made bad decisions, the level of incompetence that some people attribute to him doesn’t even make sense. There is a fear about his moves but many are actually not likely to happen. No one “feared” Subban was going to be traded for Weber. No one “feared” that Sergachev would be traded for Drouin. 

 

People feared we wouldn’t resign Radulov and people worried Markov would be let go. Those are off season free agent signings and nothing involving mid season moves. 

 

People also fear things like Galchenyuk being traded for Kevin Bieksa, or Pacioretty being traded for Lucic, and those moves also will not happen.

 

Some people loved the trades made, others disliked them. The types of trades that are often proposed in hypothetical fashion in relation to Bergevin, I view as unlikely most of the time. There is a dissociation between reality and imaginative thought when it comes to some of those who dislike Bergevin. I say that despite his previous moves all the while being fine with him being shown the door. 

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8 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I think the comments are premature because I still hold hope we can turn the season around. 

Currently sitting with a 2% chance of making playoffs, not sure that is premature?

Simply because anyone hopes they can turn season around doesn't mean much, sorry to say.

If the team was still showing signs of life I might hold out hope; but to repeat myself, they are in a deep hole, still digging and really with zero signs of turning anything around. 

 

And to top it off, if they sneak into playoffs, does anyone think they can beat Tampa or even the Leafs, then Caps etc.

 

Oh well, see how they match-up vs SJ today and hope for a entertaining game at least.

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