Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
REV-G

Bergevin......

Recommended Posts

The main things are

 

1. to get rid of Bergevin, who has proven himself incompetent

2. to avoid obviously catastrophic choices, by which I mean circus ring-masters like Patrick Roy or Pierre McGuire.

 

It's rather hard to say much beyond that, because there is no real telling how a guy will do once he's installed in the GM's chair. Marc Bergevin seemed to be a terrifically well-qualified choice who ticked all the boxes. Turns out he is a buffoon. Gauthier brought vast experience, yet was a total disaster. Then you get people with track records as GMs, whose results in a new organization do not mirror past performance. Gainey built a Cup winner in Dallas and transparently failed to do so here. Poile seems to have been a merely adequate GM in Washington and yet has been the class of the league in Nashville.

 

And just as having what looks like the perfect c.v. is no guarantee of excellence, I wouldn't rule out a scenario in which a guy is hired who does not tick all the boxes, and yet ends up excelling despite this.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    38
2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

And just as having what looks like the perfect c.v. is no guarantee of excellence, I wouldn't rule out a scenario in which a guy is hired who does not tick all the boxes, and yet ends up excelling despite this.

I think might depend on how they lose. If they can avoid any long losing streaks, still miss playoffs obviously, then Bergevin may still survive. But, I think one long losing streak pressure would for sure cause Molson to pull the trigger and get Dudley or someone to finish year.

And gotta hope are several other good options for GM out three, that hit the mandatory French tick box, than seemingly just Brisbois.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DON said:

I think might depend on how they lose. If they can avoid any long losing streaks, still miss playoffs obviously, then Bergevin may still survive. But, I think one long losing streak pressure would for sure cause Molson to pull the trigger and get Dudley or someone to finish year.

And gotta hope are several other good options for GM out three, that hit the mandatory French tick box, than seemingly just Brisbois.

 

Is it official that the GM absolutely has to be bilingual? That is now mandatory?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    38
21 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Is it official that the GM absolutely has to be bilingual? That is now mandatory?

Yes, its official.

 

Who the last English-only speaking GM of the Habs, Selke maybe in 50-60s (just guessing)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Is it official that the GM absolutely has to be bilingual? That is now mandatory?

 

No. Montreal tried to interview Jim Nill for the position but he said no.

 

I've long maintained if there's two equal candidates, the francophone will get the interview. But if someone is exceptional and anglo, they will get a call. Nill was considered the best guy without a GM job, which is why he got a call. If the Canadiens go GM searching without a top candidate, I bet Paul Fenton in Nashville gets a call and he's a Boston boy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

No. Montreal tried to interview Jim Nill for the position but he said no.

 

I've long maintained if there's two equal candidates, the francophone will get the interview. But if someone is exceptional and anglo, they will get a call. Nill was considered the best guy without a GM job, which is why he got a call. If the Canadiens go GM searching without a top candidate, I bet Paul Fenton in Nashville gets a call and he's a Boston boy.

 

I hope you're right. The philosophy you describe was the one that routinely used to be cited by Montreal Canadiens management ("if it's a tie, we go with the francophone") and is completely unobjectionable. But while I'm OK with the "affirmative action" approach to coaching, the more the organization restricts itself to bilingual applicants throughout, the more it is handcuffing itself.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I hope you're right. The philosophy you describe was the one that routinely used to be cited by Montreal Canadiens management ("if it's a tie, we go with the francophone") and is completely unobjectionable. But while I'm OK with the "affirmative action" approach to coaching, the more the organization restricts itself to bilingual applicants throughout, the more it is handcuffing itself.

 

2012 was a bad time to find a GM and coach.

 

Bergevin was hired in 2012. 9 GMs have had jobs prior to him (Bob Murray in Anaheim, Stan Bowman in Chicago, Ken Holland in Detroit, Chuck Fletcher in Minnesota, David Poile in Nashville, Garth Snow in Brooklyn, Doug Wilson in San Jose, Doug Armstrong in St. Louis, Steve Yzerman in Tampa, and Kevin Cheveldayoff in Winnipeg) while every other team has since fired their GM and replaced him. 14 of the GMs hired after 2012 were brand new. The rest had been GMs in the past (Lou Lammorello, George McPhee, Ray Shero, Peter Chiarreli, and Dale Tallon). 

 

If the Habs try to hire a francophone who say gets recently fired they are looking at Stan Bowman, Chuck Fletcher, Ron Hextall, and Dale Tallon. I've heard Doug Wilson speaks French. Otherwise it's somebody new, or someone that's an anglophone. Sadly, much like 2012, the only guy I can think of who would be sort of a, "You gotta get this guy" is Paul Fenton. After that is probably Julien BriseBois, who Commandant will be sure to tell us hasn't done anything and is fool's gold. So there's that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    38

 

from Salim Valji:

DS4SJo6XcAE_L1c.jpg:large

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669



Why i say Brook is a blue chipper. He's performed better than most of the D taken in the first round right now. 

 

Its little things like this play... so subtle, so exceptionally smart. 

 

Add to that near flawless defence in his own end. 

If i had to re-rank players today for the 2017 draft, I'm putting him in the top 15.

At the rate he is going, he will be my top Habs prospect this summer (or 2nd depending how high a draft pick we get in June). 

I love Poehling and Mete, but he is passing them.... He looks special.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2018 at 0:33 PM, sbhatt said:

 

That was a great article that sums up what a terrible GM he is. Made my blood boil...What this team could have been...

 

Yesterday he admits that Drouin is a winger not a centre. So he trades away a potential franchise defenseman for a top six winger. Trades our best prospect and possibly one of the best Dmen (future) in the league and still doesn't address our needs.

 

He needs to be fired ASAP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

That was a great article that sums up what a terrible GM he is. Made my blood boil...What this team could have been...

 

Yesterday he admits that Drouin is a winger not a centre. So he trades away a potential franchise defenseman for a top six winger. Trades our best prospect and possibly one of the best Dmen (future) in the league and still doesn't address our needs.

 

He needs to be fired ASAP

 

Amen, Prime Minister. Amen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669

The only thing is that Brendan Kelly is writing satire. 

 

I wish it would lead to Bergevin's firing, but the org is going to slog it off as not a serious piece. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Commandant said:

The only thing is that Brendan Kelly is writing satire. 

 

I wish it would lead to Bergevin's firing, but the org is going to slog it off as not a serious piece. 

 

Stu Cowan basically says the same thing more discreetly here: http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-marc-bergevin-is-the-man-to-blame-for-canadiens-poor-first-half

 

And Carbo was on RDS a couple of weeks ago regretfully saying that he thinks MB will be fired, and effectively noting that it's hard to make a case for him.

 

The thing with the general beat reporters is, they are close to the team and to some degree dependent upon it for serious access. This tends, with some exceptions, to lead to caution in attacking the organization. This is not to say that "fire 'em all" fans and bloggers are always right either. It's just to say that the "fire Bergevin" sentiment is less likely to be expressed by the "serious" journalists you invoke, and for reasons having little to do with Bergevin's merits or demerits.

 

As for Bergevin's presser, I thought his messaging was pretty obvious: "we're responsible managers who are not going to compromise the future to save the present." I agree with the principle, but he is basically pretending that he is in Year One of a rebuild rather than Year Six. That's undoubtedly the B.S. he is selling Molson: hey, I'm a responsible caretaker of the organization's future. It's a ludicrous message, but who knows, maybe Molson is too stupid to see through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669

He said the right things in his approach to the team right now. 

1) I'm not trading prospects and draft picks for quick fixes on the team.  (Thats the right answer today, there is no reason to deal prospects and picks for rentals now). 

2) I haven't given up on the playoffs.  (Three of the next six are against Boston, at the end of that stretch this season either has a glimmer of hope or is completely lost.  Anything less than 5 points in those three games, and you have to start moving the Plekanec, Delauriers, and other UFAs off this team, but you can wait for those 6 games to play out first).

 

He said some wrong things too.  Such as Drouin being a winger and only playing there cause we can't find a centre.  if that is the case, why isn't Chucky tried there as well?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Metallica    3
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

He said the right things in his approach to the team right now. 

1) I'm not trading prospects and draft picks for quick fixes on the team.  (Thats the right answer today, there is no reason to deal prospects and picks for rentals now). 

2) I haven't given up on the playoffs.  (Three of the next six are against Boston, at the end of that stretch this season either has a glimmer of hope or is completely lost.  Anything less than 5 points in those three games, and you have to start moving the Plekanec, Delauriers, and other UFAs off this team, but you can wait for those 6 games to play out first).

 

He said some wrong things too.  Such as Drouin being a winger and only playing there cause we can't find a centre.  if that is the case, why isn't Chucky tried there as well?

 

He said he's not trading prospects because our prospects can't get him that #1c we need. Not trading picks because he doesn't know where we will finish. If we were first in the division and in a playoff spot he would trade the picks.

 

He knows were not going to make the playoffs, but to save face and not have to hear the fans and media he's not going to come out and say it.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669
23 minutes ago, Metallica said:

He said he's not trading prospects because our prospects can't get him that #1c we need. Not trading picks because he doesn't know where we will finish. If we were first in the division and in a playoff spot he would trade the picks.

 

He knows were not going to make the playoffs, but to save face and not have to hear the fans and media he's not going to come out and say it.


You are wrong, he said that there is no one who can turn this thing around and that he is not sacrificing the future to save this season. In fact, here is his exact quote. 
 

“In the perfect world, would I love to add a piece to help them? Of course,” the GM said. “But to sacrifice the future and be taking a major risk to hurt the organization for the long term? I’m not ready to do that. And to be honest with you, the short-term solution, there’s nobody out there that I’m aware of that’s going to come and turn this thing around.”

 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Metallica    3

There are players out there that can help he just doesn't have the pieces to make the trades.

 

He has trade the future twice and both times got burned🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    38
2 hours ago, Commandant said:


You are wrong, he said that there is no one who can turn this thing around and that he is not sacrificing the future to save this season. In fact, here is his exact quote. 
 

“In the perfect world, would I love to add a piece to help them? Of course,” the GM said. “But to sacrifice the future and be taking a major risk to hurt the organization for the long term? I’m not ready to do that. And to be honest with you, the short-term solution, there’s nobody out there that I’m aware of that’s going to come and turn this thing around.”

 

(or Molson has trading to improve this year handcuffs on Bergy already)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    38
3 hours ago, Metallica said:

He said he's not trading prospects because our prospects can't get him that #1c we need. Not trading picks because he doesn't know where we will finish. If we were first in the division and in a playoff spot he would trade the picks.

 

He knows were not going to make the playoffs, but to save face and not have to hear the fans and media he's not going to come out and say it.

Looks like downvoting bandit at work again?

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DON    38
2 hours ago, Metallica said:

There are players out there that can help he just doesn't have the pieces to make the trades.

With Gallagher, Pacioretty, Galchneyuk of course he has the pieces to trade for a C.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Metallica    3
10 minutes ago, DON said:

With Gallagher, Pacioretty, Galchneyuk of course he has the pieces to trade for a C.

 

Thats if he wants to trade his core guys which he doesn't. He is trying to get a number 1c without taking away from the teams core and/or top prospects. Its never going to happen. Which is why he can't make any trades. Try and understand👌

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669
27 minutes ago, DON said:

(or Molson has trading to improve this year handcuffs on Bergy already)

 

I don't believe that to be true. 

 

If the owner is going to handcuff the GM, he might as well fire him now and replace with an interim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669
2 hours ago, Metallica said:

There are players out there that can help he just doesn't have the pieces to make the trades.

 

He has trade the future twice and both times got burned🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥.

1

 

I don't even know what you are arguing. 


CC and I were discussing WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID, and whether or not what he said in his press conference is the right approach or not given the current season. 

 

You've added in a bunch of shit that Bergevin never said and now you are arguing against it. 

 

Basically you are building a strawman of saying he doesn't have the pieces to make trades, and then getting angry at him for saying this.  Only its not something he said. 

 

He said that he wasn't mortgaging the future to improve this year's team right now. 

 

 

 



You also indicated he has traded the future twice?  Trading a 27 year old Subban might be a mistake, but I don't call it trading the future.  Its not moving a prospect and draft picks. 

 

So he's only moved one piece in Sergachev, and that trade was for a 22 year old, and I don't know that half a season is enough time to proclaim whether that trade was good or bad yet.  Sergachev is playing well offensively, but he's still far from a finished product in his own end, and is playing on the league's best offensive team. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Commandant    669
19 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Thats if he wants to trade his core guys which he doesn't. He is trying to get a number 1c without taking away from the teams core and/or top prospects. Its never going to happen. Which is why he can't make any trades. Try and understand👌

 

He doesn't want to trade core guys?  I don't think that has been an issue in the past (Subban), and I'm not sure its an issue now (we are hearing from Friedmann that Pacioretty is on the market). He may have made some bad trades, and there is lots i can criticize Bergevin for.  Being trigger shy to make a big trade isn't really a fair criticism.  He's made a number of big trades including Subban for Weber, Sergachev for Drouin, Petry, Vanek, Cole for Ryder, etc...  Most teams have not made this many big trades in Bergy's tenure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×