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Bergevin......

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Metallica    4
3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't even know what you are arguing. 


CC and I were discussing WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID, and whether or not what he said in his press conference is the right approach or not given the current season. 

 

You've added in a bunch of shit that Bergevin never said and now you are arguing against it. 

You also indicated he has traded the future twice?  Trading a 27 year old Subban might be a mistake, but I don't call it trading the future.  Its not moving a prospect and draft picks. 

 

So he's only moved one piece in Sergachev, and that trade was for a 22 year old, and I don't know that half a season is enough time to proclaim whether that trade was good or bad yet.  Sergachev is playing well offensively, but he's still far from a finished product in his own end, and is playing on the league's best offensive team. 

If he made a trade in dec for help things wouldn't be this bad. But he didn't. I am pointing out that they're players that can help, he just doesn't have the pieces to pull off a trade.

Now with the future point, he traded away a big core piece of this team in Subban and got burned on it because he could of gotten that #1c for him.

Then he trades a young top 2 d prospect for what he called was our #1c, but now he is saying that he is best fit for wing. Thats two trades of your teams future and best trading chips And he got  burned.

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Commandant    674

You wanted him to trade draft picks and prospects in December?

 

That would have been a huge mistake. 

 

Do we forget this team started at 1-6-1 and have never fully pulled themselves back from that yet. 

 

Even when they were third in the division it was by one point, and Boston had 4 games in hand. 

 

The 5 game win streak was fun, but it was never followed up on.  Trading away future pieces in this season has never been the correct move. 

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Metallica    4
8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

He doesn't want to trade core guys?  I don't think that has been an issue in the past (Subban), and I'm not sure its an issue now (we are hearing from Friedmann that Pacioretty is on the market). He may have made some bad trades, and there is lots i can criticize Bergevin for.  Being trigger shy to make a big trade isn't really a fair criticism.  He's made a number of big trades including Subban for Weber, Sergachev for Drouin, Petry, Vanek, Cole for Ryder, etc...  Most teams have not made this many big trades in Bergy's tenure. 

Understand what he was saying in the press conference, he believes in this core,  he thinks they're still a playoff team....... that means he isn't trading anyone from its core that includes Pacioretty, Gallagher and galchenyuk.

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Metallica    4
9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

You wanted him to trade draft picks and prospects in December?

 

That would have been a huge mistake. 

 

Do we forget this team started at 1-6-1 and have never fully pulled themselves back from that yet. 

 

Even when they were third in the division it was by one point, and Boston had 4 games in hand. 

 

The 5 game win streak was fun, but it was never followed up on.  Trading away future pieces in this season has never been the correct move. 

 

You're trying to defend a GM who went into the off season knowing he needed to add scoring but instead just added an unproven player and lost rad and didn't resign Markov. Then did nothing to make up for there lose. There's a reason why the team start 1-6-1, that reason is the GM.

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Commandant    674
4 minutes ago, Metallica said:

 

You're trying to defend a GM who went into the off season knowing he needed to add scoring but instead just added an unproven player and lost rad and didn't resign Markov. Then did nothing to make up for there lose. There's a reason why the team start 1-6-1, that reason is the GM.

 

You're wrong... I'm not defending the GM and I want him fired.  I've said so many times. 

 

I'm just not willing to make up things he didn't say to attack him.

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Metallica    4
17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

You're wrong... I'm not defending the GM and I want him fired.  I've said so many times. 

 

I'm just not willing to make up things he didn't say to attack him.

Whos making up things? I just pointing things out. Its called reading in between the lines.

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Link67    128

 Imo, all UFAs must be shopped, and anyone over the age of 26 should be available for the right return.

 

We have established a young group made up of Drouin, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Hudon, and Mete to move forward with. We have an Elite goalie who can back them up for years to come. Lets re-tool the players around them the best that we can and fill some very glaring holes in the process.

 

Bergevin is likely not the man to put such a plan in motion, I just hope he doesn't botch anything for the next guy in the mean time

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Metallica    4
38 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

You're wrong... I'm not defending the GM and I want him fired.  I've said so many times. 

 

I'm just not willing to make up things he didn't say to attack him.

I think we are misunderstanding each other because of this..... If Bergevin trades players a player  like Pacioretty ,Gallagher, or galchenyuk  he could probably get a #1c and I do agree.

 

But in his press conference he said he isn't trading his core group that means Pacioretty, Gallagher, galchenyuk aren't going anywhere.

 

Thats why he can't make a trade because without those guys being included in any trades for a #1c he doesn't have the pieces to pull off a trade.

 

I hope wording it this makes more sense.

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DON    38
1 hour ago, Metallica said:

 Try and understand👌

Was this supposed to be sarcastic? If so why, don't get it?:huh:

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DON    38
36 minutes ago, Link67 said:

and anyone over the age of 26 should be available for the right return.

Or simply anyone, from Poehling to Price are simply assets and are expendable.

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Commandant    674
5 hours ago, Metallica said:

I think we are misunderstanding each other because of this..... If Bergevin trades players a player  like Pacioretty ,Gallagher, or galchenyuk  he could probably get a #1c and I do agree.

 

But in his press conference he said he isn't trading his core group that means Pacioretty, Gallagher, galchenyuk aren't going anywhere.

 

Thats why he can't make a trade because without those guys being included in any trades for a #1c he doesn't have the pieces to pull off a trade.

 

I hope wording it this makes more sense.

 

That wasn't what he said at all. 

He said he will make any trade that makes sense for the future. 

 

Again, you are changing his words and then attacking him for things he didn't say. 

 

You are also "reading between the lines" to say the GM won't trade those players... when this is the same GM who said explicitly that he wasn't trading sergachev last year, and said explicitly that he wasn't shopping Subban the year before.  Both turned out false at worst, and subject to change at best. 

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The gist of what he said is that he is not making risky trades to help us make the playoffs this year but he will make trades to help us long term. That might mean Patches as part of a package for a young centre prospect for example. Where a risky trade to help now might have been Mete, Hudon, Galchenyuk and two firsts for Duchene.

 

What he said about trades was reasonable and sane.

 

He screwed the team last off season when he played hardball with Markov and Radu. Can you imagine how different this team would be today if we had both those guys here? Not to mention that the Drouin trade would have made sense as an all in, we are going to win now trade. We wouldn't have signed alzner and we would have some serious power up front despite having centre issues.

 

I wonder how many Habs texted or called Markov and said, "WHAT! You aren't coming back"? Just to hear how MB treated him like shit during the negotiations, how he wanted to come back, how he was willing to take a one year deal, how much of an asshat MB is...Did that conversation have any effect on anyone? I know they are professionals but if a coach can loose a room surely a GM can as well.

 

MB has not only failed to get us that centre (other teams have traded for them) in his term here but he royally screwed this team  and we are in this mess purely because he screwed up.

 

 

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DON    38

Looking at Markov's whooping 4 goals at 39 years of age this year in KHL, got zero problem not resigning him...but no Plan B other than Strait seems pretty poor management.

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Metallica    4
2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

The gist of what he said is that he is not making risky trades to help us make the playoffs this year but he will make trades to help us long term. That might mean Patches as part of a package for a young centre prospect for example. Where a risky trade to help now might have been Mete, Hudon, Galchenyuk and two firsts for Duchene.

 

What he said about trades was reasonable and sane.

 

He screwed the team last off season when he played hardball with Markov and Radu. Can you imagine how different this team would be today if we had both those guys here? Not to mention that the Drouin trade would have made sense as an all in, we are going to win now trade. We wouldn't have signed alzner and we would have some serious power up front despite having centre issues.

 

I wonder how many Habs texted or called Markov and said, "WHAT! You aren't coming back"? Just to hear how MB treated him like shit during the negotiations, how he wanted to come back, how he was willing to take a one year deal, how much of an asshat MB is...Did that conversation have any effect on anyone? I know they are professionals but if a coach can loose a room surely a GM can as well.

 

MB has not only failed to get us that centre (other teams have traded for them) in his term here but he royally screwed this team  and we are in this mess purely because he screwed up.

 

 

 totally agree with you. He took on a team that was 2 top 6 players away from possibly winning the cup, and turned it into what it is now in his 5 years here.

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DON    38
8 minutes ago, Metallica said:

 totally agree with you. He took on a team that was 2 top 6 players away from possibly winning the cup, and turned it into what it is now in his 5 years here.

Now teams needs 1 top six centre and 1 top pairing d-man.

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Metallica    4
16 minutes ago, DON said:

Now teams needs 1 top six centre and 1 top pairing d-man.

 sorry to say but the team needs more than that.

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mineral    6
2 hours ago, DON said:

Looking at Markov's whooping 4 goals at 39 years of age this year in KHL, got zero problem not resigning him...but no Plan B other than Strait seems pretty poor management.

 

... and 20 assists, which puts him in a 3-way tie for top 10 in points for a defenseman. Not bad for a 39 year old. 0.5pts/game isn't too shabby.

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DON    38
1 hour ago, mineral said:

 

... and 20 assists, which puts him in a 3-way tie for top 10 in points for a defenseman. Not bad for a 39 year old. 0.5pts/game isn't too shabby.

Yah, he is tied with some top quality d-men alright. :sarcasm_on:Fine for KHL, not so much for $6m/yr or trying to keep up in NHL when he has been slowing down and having his icetime cut every year for several years.

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JoeLassister    292
38 minutes ago, DON said:

Yah, he is tied with some top quality d-men alright. :sarcasm_on:Fine for KHL, not so much for $6m/yr or trying to keep up in NHL when he has been slowing down and having his icetime cut every year for several years.

How does it matter if the 6M$ is not spent on anybody else as it is right now ?

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Metallica    4
50 minutes ago, DON said:

Yah, he is tied with some top quality d-men alright. :sarcasm_on:Fine for KHL, not so much for $6m/yr or trying to keep up in NHL when he has been slowing down and having his icetime cut every year for several years.

You can say the same about Plekenec but he gave him a 2 year 6mil deal without blinking.

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DON    38
1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

How does it matter if the 6M$ is not spent on anybody else as it is right now ?

Back at ya, How does it matter since that player will not be playing for Habs ever again?

 

I didn't say Beregvin's plan B on defense wasn't a 'bit' lacking, simply that Markov is near end of career.

 

Also, arnt people complaining that Habs defense is too slow, but still want to add an even slower older guy.

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JoeLassister    292
1 hour ago, DON said:

Back at ya, How does it matter since that player will not be playing for Habs ever again?

 

I didn't say Beregvin's plan B on defense wasn't a 'bit' lacking, simply that Markov is near end of career.

 

Also, arnt people complaining that Habs defense is too slow, but still want to add an even slower older guy.

It matters to me because IMO, Markov with his actual speed  and 2M$ of capspace is still better than Joe Morrow and 8M$ of capspace.

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DON    38
1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

It matters to me because IMO, Markov with his actual speed  and 2M$ of capspace is still better than Joe Morrow and 8M$ of capspace.

But, is history Joseph, your daydreaming about a younger Markov from the past, time to move on. 

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xXx..CK..xXx    186
51 minutes ago, DON said:

But, is history Joseph, your daydreaming about a younger Markov from the past, time to move on. 

Your point is that the smartest thing to do was to have a replacement for Markov. Who would have been some available replacements for Bergevin? 

 

If there are none that come to mind, then it would still have been better to have Markov than nothing.

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