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Bergevin......

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Trizzak    527
36 minutes ago, DON said:

But, is history Joseph, your daydreaming about a younger Markov from the past, time to move on. 

 

Literally everyone acknowledges Markov would have slowed down this season, but most of us acknowledge the Habs would still be a better team with him than without him.

 

The only one who isn't clearheaded about Markov here is the guy posting his top-ten-among-KHL-defenseman stats and concluding, "glad we didn't re-sign THAT guy to our offense-starved team, amirite!"

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Toronthab    346
On 1/6/2018 at 0:33 PM, sbhatt said:

" I’m not going down that road today, but Subban is lighting it up in Nashville because Bergevin couldn’t live with Subban’s big personality. In the cases of Markov and Radu, they’re gone because Bergevin didn’t treat them with any respect. Markov said exactly that and Radulov has hinted at that."

 

That's actually what I thought was going on. No love. 

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Toronthab    346

" I’m not going down that road today, but Subban is lighting it up in Nashville because Bergevin couldn’t live with Subban’s big personality. In the cases of Markov and Radu, they’re gone because Bergevin didn’t treat them with any respect. Markov said exactly that and Radulov has hinted at that."

 

This is exactly what I thought might well be going on. Markov outright said it. He and Subban are still close. Radulov would have to ask himself..who'd want to play here.... Subby was our soul man. 

 

This is why we're a collection and not a team. A team is a unit. Its transpersonal. It's love and friendship. 

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Commandant    669
14 hours ago, Trizzak said:

 

Literally everyone acknowledges Markov would have slowed down this season, but most of us acknowledge the Habs would still be a better team with him than without him.

 

The only one who isn't clearheaded about Markov here is the guy posting his top-ten-among-KHL-defenseman stats and concluding, "glad we didn't re-sign THAT guy to our offense-starved team, amirite!"

 

The idea that the team would not be better today with Markov instead of unused cap space is absolutely asinine. 

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13 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

The idea that the team would not be better today with Markov instead of unused cap space is absolutely asinine. 

 

True. And the wider issue, as DON has repeatedly pointed out, is the complete absence of any succession plan for Markov. Even assuming his game has dropped off another notch (and who knows, he may be less motivated in the KHL, just playing for a paycheck) it is not as though his decline was an unexpected surprise - we've been talking about the need to replace Markov for, like, a half-decade now. The idiot in the GM's chair traded the succession plan away without the slightest clue about how to replace it.

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DON    38
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

True. And the wider issue, as DON has repeatedly pointed out, is the complete absence of any succession plan for Markov. Even assuming his game has dropped off another notch (and who knows, he may be less motivated in the KHL, just playing for a paycheck) it is not as though his decline was an unexpected surprise - we've been talking about the need to replace Markov for, like, a half-decade now. The idiot in the GM's chair traded the succession plan away without the slightest clue about how to replace it.

Cant disagree.

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huzer    67

ESPN article on GMs on the hot seat.

 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/22023211/nhl-general-managers-hot-seat-midpoint-2017-18-season

Quote

 

Marc Bergevin, Montreal Canadiens

GM since: May 2012

Why his seat is hot: Because the Canadiens are one of the NHL's biggest disappointments, and Bergevin has made a series of moves that made them one -- and have potentially ensured that they'll remain one. It started with the still-controversial deal that flipped P.K. Subban for Shea Weber. It continued when he didn't have a suitable plan B for the departures of Alexander Radulov and Andrei Markov last summer, and when he used the organization's best trade asset -- rookie defenseman Mikhail Sergachev -- in a trade for Jonathan Drouin, who is a tremendous player, but not the center who should have been acquired for such a prospect.

Does he deserve it? More than anyone else on the list. Bergevin has been rightfully pilloried for the Canadiens' failures this season, as they're 18-20-4 and seven points out of a wild-card spot. He's lost the faith of the fans and lost the benefit of the doubt from the media, which is now issuing outright calls for his removal. From the Montreal Gazette: "But the real reason [Canadiens owner] Geoff Molson has to bite the bullet and give Bergevin his walking papers is because the time has come to radically reinvent this team and given his track record, the last guy you want helming that re-invention is Bergevin."

 

Final seat temperature: Have you ever been on the surface of the sun? Picture that, but hotter.

 

 

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DON    38

Hey Bergy;

 

Image result for comical sale image

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Link67    126
On 1/9/2018 at 3:33 PM, DON said:

Back at ya, How does it matter since that player will not be playing for Habs ever again?

 

I didn't say Beregvin's plan B on defense wasn't a 'bit' lacking, simply that Markov is near end of career.

 

Also, arnt people complaining that Habs defense is too slow, but still want to add an even slower older guy.

 

 

DON, it isn't Markov's speed we are wanting, its his Eyes and his Brain that we are wanting, and that my friend, is something not one single player on this D can replace. His vision and smarts created offense on the rush, he created offense on the PP, he kept things simple with his positioning, but made quality plays with the puck almost every shift.You think the players don't notice when skating up the Neutral zone at a good speed the difference between when Markov was there feeding them outlet passes for 21 min a night, and what they are getting today?

 

Besides, this Defense is not "Too Slow" it is actually too old school, it is out of date, and not flowing with the current NHL game. A guy like Markov, for as old as he is, still practiced a very new age style game, one that gets the job done in his own zone for the most part while complimenting his forward group, and driving offense. Make no mistake we can look blatantly at Radulov being removed from the top 6 and 9 million in cap space sitting there instead of an adequate replacement as a major contributing factor to these offensive woes . But Markov's loss has a very real and underrated effect on the overall offense generated by this forward group. His age and skating mean very little to me compared to his irreplaceable vision and skill, that even at 40 years old, no Dman on this team can do the way he did.

 

 

Your presence is missed more and more each day General Markov 

 

SickMellowChanticleer-size_restricted.gi

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DON    38
10 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

 

DON, it isn't Markov's speed we are wanting, its his Eyes and his Brain that we are wanting, and that my friend, is something not one single player on this D can replace. His vision and smarts created offense on the rush, he created offense on the PP (Habs PP sucked with Markov for years)

 

he kept things simple with his positioning, but made quality plays with the puck almost every shift (Rose Coloured glasses).You think the players don't notice when skating up the Neutral zone at a good speed the difference between when Markov was there feeding them outlet passes for 21 min a night (would be 19 or 20 this year if trend continued), and what they are getting today?

 

Besides, this Defense is not "Too Slow" (I didnt say it was, many do though) it is actually too old school, it is out of date, and not flowing with the current NHL game. A guy like Markov, for as old as he is, still practiced a very new age style game (have you had the vaporizer out today?:P),

His age and skating mean very little to me compared to his irreplaceable vision and skill, that even at 40 years old, no Dman on this team can do the way he did (agree but think you are living in the past, when he put up 50+points).

 

 

Your presence is missed more and more each day General Markov. Cant get any worse so, time to look forward. 

 

 

 

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Toronthab    346
51 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

 

DON, it isn't Markov's speed we are wanting, its his Eyes and his Brain that we are wanting, and that my friend, is something not one single player on this D can replace. His vision and smarts created offense on the rush, he created offense on the PP, he kept things simple with his positioning, but made quality plays with the puck almost every shift.You think the players don't notice when skating up the Neutral zone at a good speed the difference between when Markov was there feeding them outlet passes for 21 min a night, and what they are getting today?

 

Besides, this Defense is not "Too Slow" it is actually too old school, it is out of date, and not flowing with the current NHL game. A guy like Markov, for as old as he is, still practiced a very new age style game, one that gets the job done in his own zone for the most part while complimenting his forward group, and driving offense. Make no mistake we can look blatantly at Radulov being removed from the top 6 and 9 million in cap space sitting there instead of an adequate replacement as a major contributing factor to these offensive woes . But Markov's loss has a very real and underrated effect on the overall offense generated by this forward group. His age and skating mean very little to me compared to his irreplaceable vision and skill, that even at 40 years old, no Dman on this team can do the way he did.

 

 

Your presence is missed more and more each day General Markov 

 

SickMellowChanticleer-size_restricted.gi

 

Wow.. Paul Newman missed him too.. sheesh.. well that proves it... 

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Toronthab    346

Imagine turning on the TV... PK Subban...Markov , Mikhail Sergachov, Petry.. Radulov. and a new acquisition to help the gang up front. 

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4 hours ago, Toronthab said:

Imagine turning on the TV... PK Subban...Markov , Mikhail Sergachov, Petry.. Radulov. and a new acquisition to help the gang up front. 

 

Yer killin' me.

10 hours ago, huzer said:

 

That's an excellent, to-the-point piece. Can't disagree with a word of it, except perhaps its confidence that Bergevin is in deep trouble. I still worry about Molson doing the right thing.

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Dalhabs    82

I expect us to win almost all game up to the allstar break or MB is gone.

If not we need a new owner just as much as a new GM.

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Toronthab    346
18 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yer killin' me.

 

That's an excellent, to-the-point piece. Can't disagree with a word of it, except perhaps its confidence that Bergevin is in deep trouble. I still worry about Molson doing the right thing.

Actually I don't think the review went deep enough which is understandable given the scope of the whole article. I'm pretty sure he turned these heroes off. I think all would have signed with a Bob Gainey or some other GM. I must admit I have no idea of what was behind the Subban export , good as Shea Weber is.. but this was dumping Soulman. Unless I'm really missing something significant here... not that that would be the first time.. but.. er.. never mind...:huh:

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DON    38
1 hour ago, Toronthab said:

 but this was dumping Soulman.

 

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CoRvInA    1

Hi fellas long time no... well nothing

I'm willing to accept Bergevin ####ed up with Markov And that boat has sailed.... Unless talks during summer with the KHL team.  But thats another story.

Secondly I'm "kind of" ok that Bergevin lost Radulov.... But what Im not ok with is that this season ends and we don't at least finish with that number one centre.

When the Habs officially are out of the playoffs AND if Bergevin wants  to save his arse - he has to either finish the season with a bonified number one centre via trade. OR damn well convince Molson that in the offseason Tavares is coming to Mtl.  

If Marc  isnt sure he will get that Centreman in the off season.... then he will have to get him before the deadline. Which I believe will be via that 9 million surplus. in the form of absorbing one or more sub par players' contracts - possibly via a three way trade.   Question is will he do it regardless if what he gets in return is a future Gomez or a Radek Bonk...

 

What scenarios come to mind to you guys?  just an example of what im saying-- not that its possible-  would say the senators or another team accept Pax for an underachieving top centre like Duchene and a deadwight contract say Phaneuf?  And would US (you) be ok with that?

 

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Trizzak    527
5 hours ago, CoRvInA said:

Hi fellas long time no... well nothing

I'm willing to accept Bergevin ####ed up with Markov And that boat has sailed.... Unless talks during summer with the KHL team.  But thats another story.

Secondly I'm "kind of" ok that Bergevin lost Radulov.... But what Im not ok with is that this season ends and we don't at least finish with that number one centre.

When the Habs officially are out of the playoffs AND if Bergevin wants  to save his arse - he has to either finish the season with a bonified number one centre via trade. OR damn well convince Molson that in the offseason Tavares is coming to Mtl.  

If Marc  isnt sure he will get that Centreman in the off season.... then he will have to get him before the deadline. Which I believe will be via that 9 million surplus. in the form of absorbing one or more sub par players' contracts - possibly via a three way trade.   Question is will he do it regardless if what he gets in return is a future Gomez or a Radek Bonk...

 

What scenarios come to mind to you guys?  just an example of what im saying-- not that its possible-  would say the senators or another team accept Pax for an underachieving top centre like Duchene and a deadwight contract say Phaneuf?  And would US (you) be ok with that?

 

 

Can't say I've ever had strong enough feelings about Radek Bonk to lump him into the same category as Scott Gomez...

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CoRvInA    1

Ha of course Gomez is beyond any par... but remember Bonk was also a Gainey (was it Bob?) gamble for a top centre - albeit for a season or two- that never worked

just now Reminded me of M. Bergeron ..Le Bergy who couldnt stand Bonk bonkers

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Trizzak    527
8 minutes ago, CoRvInA said:

Ha of course Gomez is beyond any par... but remember Bonk was also a Gainey (was it Bob?) gamble for a top centre - albeit for a season or two- that never worked

just now Reminded me of M. Bergeron ..Le Bergy who couldnt stand Bonk bonkers

 

I mean... it cost him Mathieu Garon and a 3rd round pick to get Cristolbal Huet and Radek Bonk, and I don't remember Bonk being used as anything but a 3rd line center...

 

Totally worthwhile trade, imo. 

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CoRvInA    1

Totally was a third line centre and great checking centre at that. But I clearly remember Carbo trying him with the Kostys and others snipers hoping for a top 6 centre

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Between Bonk, Pleks, Ribeiro, and Koivu (not to mention Grabovsk and Lang) the Gainey era was surprisingly well-endowed at C. Too bad he threw away Ribs. But even so, compared to the current era of forcing a W to try to play C, forcing a C to play W, and pretending that Danault and/or Old Man Pleks are top-6 pivots, that was a golden age. 

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On 1/13/2018 at 0:38 AM, Trizzak said:

 

I mean... it cost him Mathieu Garon and a 3rd round pick to get Cristolbal Huet and Radek Bonk, and I don't remember Bonk being used as anything but a 3rd line center...

 

Totally worthwhile trade, imo. 

 

At the time it was considered a risk. People were very high on Garon, so high in fact that a deal trading Ilya Kovalchuk to Montreal broke down because the Habs wanted to part with Theodore instead of Garon (this was before Kovalchuk was drafted), so when they traded Garon, people thought they didn't get enough for him. The Kings just got Bonk for a third, and were now trading him to Montreal for a third, who were getting Huet back. Huet was older by two years and nothing special in his platoon year with the Kings. In the lockout year, Garon was great with the Monarchs and people thought the Habs could regret the trade. But Garon was no starter and couldn't handle the role on the Kings (not that they had a good team) and Huet at least provided some decent starting after Theodore flamed out. Good enough to get a second rounder out of him, so overall the trade worked out.

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Trizzak    527
8 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

At the time it was considered a risk. People were very high on Garon, so high in fact that a deal trading Ilya Kovalchuk to Montreal broke down because the Habs wanted to part with Theodore instead of Garon (this was before Kovalchuk was drafted), so when they traded Garon, people thought they didn't get enough for him. The Kings just got Bonk for a third, and were now trading him to Montreal for a third, who were getting Huet back. Huet was older by two years and nothing special in his platoon year with the Kings. In the lockout year, Garon was great with the Monarchs and people thought the Habs could regret the trade. But Garon was no starter and couldn't handle the role on the Kings (not that they had a good team) and Huet at least provided some decent starting after Theodore flamed out. Good enough to get a second rounder out of him, so overall the trade worked out.

 

I'll take your word on Garon's worth, but as for Bonk's worth... this sounds like Ottawa wasn't willing to trade Bonk to a division rival, and Gainey used LA as a sneaky go-between.

 

And while luck may have a lot to do with it, the Habs did end up with the 2 best players in the transaction.

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9 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

 

I'll take your word on Garon's worth, but as for Bonk's worth... this sounds like Ottawa wasn't willing to trade Bonk to a division rival, and Gainey used LA as a sneaky go-between.

 

And while luck may have a lot to do with it, the Habs did end up with the 2 best players in the transaction.

 

Here's an article from 2008 quoting some of the early analytics guys both complimenting and criticizing him. He had a lot of supporters back in the day, but in the end he just couldn't put it together, and suffered from what a lot of left handed goalies do: they start hot and cool down quick when figured out.

 

People really thought he was gonna be at least a regular starter.

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