HABS @ SENATORS, OCT 30

[lazy26]

17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

 

 

So you base your opinions of who would be a good pick not by your own eyes but what you are told second hand.

 

Sorry if im not going to give you a pat on the back and a good job for regurgitating what others said.  Look at me im so smart i can repeat mckenzie and button and i wanted kreider in 2009.  Sorry not giving you an ego boost cause you were "right" about a prospect you never saw.

 

 

You didn't have to give him a pat on the back, Commandant, but you didn't have to jump down his throat either.  I form a lot of my opinions from sportscasters, hockey magazines etc... and although I acknowledge that doesn't make me an expert, I can still state my case.

 

I just don't want another thread to dissolve into personal attacks, so how about we all play nice, ok? 

[lazy26]

10 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

How did no one see how terrible Leblancs skating was? 

 

Was that before or after his injury?

[Commandant]

10 minutes ago, lazy26 said:

 

You didn't have to give him a pat on the back, Commandant, but you didn't have to jump down his throat either.  I form a lot of my opinions from sportscasters, hockey magazines etc... and although I acknowledge that doesn't make me an expert, I can still state my case.

 

I just don't want another thread to dissolve into personal attacks, so how about we all play nice, ok? 

 

You dont go around with the i told you so.  I dont mind forminf opinion based on others.  Very few people can watch everyone.

 

I object to the ego of i told you we should have drafted this guy.  I knew he was gonna be good. The whole "i wanted him instead of the local boy" line.

 

Thats the difference between most posters... and the ones who play the i told you so card on a player they never saw.

[DON]

1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

I honestly believe he can be 70pts player. 

Why would you believe that? He has already played 350games and his best was 56pts. Likely not very often a guy with that experience all of a sudden takes off, is it?

 

Compared to a Forsberg, who already has 2 60+ and a 58pt season under his belt, in 275games.

Even Plekanec already had a 69 and 70pt season at similar stage.

[lazy26]

14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

You dont go around with the i told you so.  I dont mind forminf opinion based on others.  Very few people can watch everyone.

 

I object to the ego of i told you we should have drafted this guy.  I knew he was gonna be good. The whole "i wanted him instead of the local boy" line.

 

Thats the difference between most posters... and the ones who play the i told you so card on a player they never saw.

 

I can understand the ego thing; that frustrates me at times as well.  In this case, I don't feel that the post that you referred to came off with "I told you so" vibe, but rather with the OP stating his drafting preference at the time.  That's why I thought the response was inappropriate, and I thought I'd try to nip things in the bud.

[Trizzak]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

 

 

So you base your opinions of who would be a good pick not by your own eyes but what you are told second hand.

 

Sorry if im not going to give you a pat on the back and a good job for regurgitating what others said.  Look at me im so smart i can repeat mckenzie and button and i wanted kreider in 2009.  Sorry not giving you an ego boost cause you were "right" about a prospect you never saw.

 

 

Most of us here do. Hell, a lot of GMs do too with scouting reports. 

 

You're being unnecessarily condescending about this. It is not out of the ordinary to hear/read about a 6'3, speedy, power forward and think, "I hope the Habs pick him instead of anyone else projected to go there... he's what we need."

[huzer]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Why would you believe that? He has already played 350games and his best was 56pts. Likely not very often a guy with that experience all of a sudden takes off, is it?

 

Compared to a Forsberg, who already has 2 60+ and a 58pt season under his belt, in 275games.

Even Plekanec already had a 69 and 70pt season at similar stage.

Oh c'mon now, Plex wasn't a regular until he was 24. You can't just base maturity simply on GP. I don't know where Chucky will ultimate fall on the spectrum, but just to say he is what he is at age 23. He produced at a .73PPG clip last year, which would put him right at 60pts had he not been injured.

[Guest Stogey24]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Why would you believe that? He has already played 350games and his best was 56pts. Likely not very often a guy with that experience all of a sudden takes off, is it?

 

Compared to a Forsberg, who already has 2 60+ and a 58pt season under his belt, in 275games.

Even Plekanec already had a 69 and 70pt season at similar stage.

Your acting like Galcenyuak is 30 years old. The kid is 23. His best should be yet to come.

 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Trizzak said:

 

Most of us here do. Hell, a lot of GMs do too with scouting reports. 

 

You're being unnecessarily condescending about this. It is not out of the ordinary to hear/read about a 6'3, speedy, power forward and think, "I hope the Habs pick him instead of anyone else projected to go there... he's what we need."

 

Read my later posts.

 

Its fine to base your opinions on the writings of others. Its the "I told you so" after the fact that turns me off about it.   Its the arrogance after the fact. 

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, DON said:

Why would you believe that? He has already played 350games and his best was 56pts. Likely not very often a guy with that experience all of a sudden takes off, is it?

 

Compared to a Forsberg, who already has 2 60+ and a 58pt season under his belt, in 275games.

Even Plekanec already had a 69 and 70pt season at similar stage.

 

He is 23. 

 

He was on pace for 60 last year (and was even higher before the injury). 

 

Plekanec did not get 69 points until he was 26.  His 70 point season came at 28.   At the same stage Plekanec was still bouncing between Hamilton and Montreal. 

[DON]

1 hour ago, huzer said:

Oh c'mon now, Plex wasn't a regular until he was 24. You can't just base maturity simply on GP. I don't know where Chucky will ultimate fall on the spectrum, but just to say he is what he is at age 23. He produced at a .73PPG clip last year, which would put him right at 60pts had he not been injured.

All players...even Mitchell have hot streaks but most look at longer periods as meaningful, such as full year totals not a bit of one year and a bit of another, so Come on now, cant base his career to date or to come, based on one hot streak.

Why is maturity/production based on age and # of NHL games is irrelevant?

If you don't see Plekanec as comparable...why totally ignore Forsberg #s?

 

Injuries; if #66 wasn't ever injured or had cancer he would of tore up a bunch of #99s records...but injuries are part of the game and a couple knee surgeries already wont help his career.

 

Anyways, all I am getting at, is Galchenyuk may be what we have already seen, a skilled player who just cant shoot as accurately as a Tarasenko or a Forsberg and doesn't go to the front of net or tough areas as a power forward does.

No doubt he may have a 35-40g season, but for now is just wishful thinking and now in his 6th NHL season...maybe we all should lower our expectations.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's definitely not a linear connection between age and success. Some players are late bloomers. Others, though, have promising starts and then peter out: think Andrei Kostitsyn or Cody Hodgson. And then - maybe the most rare - there's the Chris Higginses of the world, who start strong, inexplicably collapse, and then claw their way back into a 'second act' of their career marked by lowered expectations.

 

Something has happened with Galchenyuk. A tolerably linear upwards progression suddenly plunged in the other direction and it's been that way for quite a stretch. It is strange to see a veteran player - because that's what he is, even if he remains young  - collapse like that. And even though he's now scoring again, the coach's usage suggests that he thinks of Galy as a 'specialty' player whose ice time and match-ups need to be carefully handled. This is not encouraging...it looks to me like a big red flag in terms of our expectations of what he can achieve, at least in a Habs' jersey.

 

 

[huzer]

1 hour ago, DON said:

All players...even Mitchell have hot streaks but most look at longer periods as meaningful, such as full year totals not a bit of one year and a bit of another, so Come on now, cant base his career to date or to come, based on one hot streak.

Why is maturity/production based on age and # of NHL games is irrelevant?

If you don't see Plekanec as comparable...why totally ignore Forsberg #s?

 

I didn’t ignore Forsberg, I think he’s a better player. I disagreed on Plekanec production and it what age he was a consistent scorer. At this point, if Galchenyuk is a consistent 60pt 30/30 type player, I don’t think that’s bad. I’ve never thought he was going to be an elite player that could carry the team.

[Habsfan]

3 hours ago, DON said:

All players...even Mitchell have hot streaks but most look at longer periods as meaningful, such as full year totals not a bit of one year and a bit of another, so Come on now, cant base his career to date or to come, based on one hot streak.

Why is maturity/production based on age and # of NHL games is irrelevant?

If you don't see Plekanec as comparable...why totally ignore Forsberg #s?

 

Injuries; if #66 wasn't ever injured or had cancer he would of tore up a bunch of #99s records...but injuries are part of the game and a couple knee surgeries already wont help his career.

 

Anyways, all I am getting at, is Galchenyuk may be what we have already seen, a skilled player who just cant shoot as accurately as a Tarasenko or a Forsberg and doesn't go to the front of net or tough areas as a power forward does.

No doubt he may have a 35-40g season, but for now is just wishful thinking and now in his 6th NHL season...maybe we all should lower our expectations.

The truth of the matter is that none of us can actually predict what Chucky's career will be like over the next 3-5 seasons. My argument for not trading him is that his value is at its lowest point since he was drafted. Let's be patient and let him get his confidence come back. Trading him right now would be a mistake because we won't get anything good in return!

[Toronthab]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It's definitely not a linear connection between age and success. Some players are late bloomers. Others, though, have promising starts and then peter out: think Andrei Kostitsyn or Cody Hodgson. And then - maybe the most rare - there's the Chris Higginses of the world, who start strong, inexplicably collapse, and then claw their way back into a 'second act' of their career marked by lowered expectations.

 

Something has happened with Galchenyuk. A tolerably linear upwards progression suddenly plunged in the other direction and it's been that way for quite a stretch. It is strange to see a veteran player - because that's what he is, even if he remains young  - collapse like that. And even though he's now scoring again, the coach's usage suggests that he thinks of Galy as a 'specialty' player whose ice time and match-ups need to be carefully handled. This is not encouraging...it looks to me like a big red flag in terms of our expectations of what he can achieve, at least in a Habs' jersey.

 

 

Who told you about my late bloomers. Did you hear how they died? 

 

It wasn't pretty...

[Guest Stogey24]

13 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It's definitely not a linear connection between age and success. Some players are late bloomers. Others, though, have promising starts and then peter out: think Andrei Kostitsyn or Cody Hodgson. And then - maybe the most rare - there's the Chris Higginses of the world, who start strong, inexplicably collapse, and then claw their way back into a 'second act' of their career marked by lowered expectations.

 

Something has happened with Galchenyuk. A tolerably linear upwards progression suddenly plunged in the other direction and it's been that way for quite a stretch. It is strange to see a veteran player - because that's what he is, even if he remains young  - collapse like that. And even though he's now scoring again, the coach's usage suggests that he thinks of Galy as a 'specialty' player whose ice time and match-ups need to be carefully handled. This is not encouraging...it looks to me like a big red flag in terms of our expectations of what he can achieve, at least in a Habs' jersey.

 

 

Bergevin and Julien are one in the same. Talent takes a backseat to a hard nosed blue collar player. 

 

How is Galchenyuk suppose to progress when he's stapled with 2 fringe nhlers. 

[Guest Stogey24]

"Andrew Shaw wasn’t on the ice when the Canadiens practised Wednesday morning in Brossard because of the flu.

That opened a spot on the second line, but it didn’t mean a promotion for Alex Galchenyuk from the fourth line. Instead, Jacob De La Rose — a healthy scratch for the last four games — slotted in at right wing with Phillip Danault at centre and Max Pacioretty on the left"

 

Am I missing something here or?

[DON]

49 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

"Andrew Shaw wasn’t on the ice when the Canadiens practised Wednesday morning in Brossard because of the flu.

That opened a spot on the second line, but it didn’t mean a promotion for Alex Galchenyuk from the fourth line. Instead, Jacob De La Rose — a healthy scratch for the last four games — slotted in at right wing with Phillip Danault at centre and Max Pacioretty on the left"

 

Am I missing something here or?

You just needed to keep reading;

 

“He’s been getting better,” Julien said after the game about Galchenyuk. “You can see his confidence, you can see his game’s starting to come around. So I have to find him a little bit more ice. It’s not always easy when everybody on the other lines are playing well and they’re scoring. For example, tonight (Artturi) Lehkonen, (Charles) Hudon got two goals each on the left side. You got Pacioretty, whose got a goal.

“You put him on the right at times and you try and spot him,” the coach added about Galchenyuk. “Slowly but surely, as long as he keeps working hard like that we’re going to help him through. But as we speak, he’s having success, so I think we’re doing the right thing with him and we just got to keep working with him so that he can get even more ice time.”

[Guest Stogey24]

I read it. Julien is treating this kid like he's an 18 year old rookie 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

He's treating him like he treated Seguin. 

[DON]

7 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

He's treating him like he treated Seguin. 

And how did Seguin turn out? He was 'supposed' to be a bit of a goof ball to begin with and Neely didn't like that at all.

[DON]

18 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

I read it. Julien is treating this kid like he's an 18 year old rookie 

Glad you know the inner workings of team, any other tidbits you can share with your inside knowledge?

[Guest Stogey24]

23 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

He's treating him like he treated Seguin. 

The writing is on the wall here. 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

"Andrew Shaw wasn’t on the ice when the Canadiens practised Wednesday morning in Brossard because of the flu.

That opened a spot on the second line, but it didn’t mean a promotion for Alex Galchenyuk from the fourth line. Instead, Jacob De La Rose — a healthy scratch for the last four games — slotted in at right wing with Phillip Danault at centre and Max Pacioretty on the left"

 

Am I missing something here or?

 

 

The only thing is that shaw is still expected to play today.  So they put in a place holder so as not to juggle the other lines.

[DON]

29 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

The writing is on the wall here. 

So why do you drone on about where he plays then?