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Is our problem scouting, drafting, coaches, players or..........??


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I think our problems as an organization is that we don't look to the future as much as we should. We let star players age because we don't draft players that could one day replace them.  Which is why we end up holding onto them for far to long when they out live there usefulness as a player. Then we end up losing them for nothing. When we lose a key player to an injury we can't call up anyone that can fill the mins, and when we lose someone to free agency we have no one that can replace them In the system. We need to do a better job filling team hole's and adding depth at every position in our system.

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Edmonton drafted best player available what has that done for them over the years. If you have players that are in there early 30's you should be looking to draft there replacement. Something we never do.

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Nashville drafted BPA. Turned Seth Jones and Sam Girard into Ryan Johansen and Kyle Turris.

 

Nashville has the best D core in the league and won't look depleted for years. Especially after scouting Trevor Murphy and signing him as a free agent. He's looked great in Milwaukee. Smallish but still has NHL potential.

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8 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Nashville drafted BPA. Turned Seth Jones and Sam Girard into Ryan Johansen and Kyle Turris.

 

Nashville has the best D core in the league and won't look depleted for years. Especially after scouting Trevor Murphy and signing him as a free agent. He's looked great in Milwaukee. Smallish but still has NHL potential.

 

The Preds are our inverted twin - they show what the Habs would have become with a capable GM.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The Preds are our inverted twin - they show what the Habs would have become with a capable GM.

 

In some ways I can agree that what happened in Nashville is impossible here. Poile has time and patience unlike no other GM because he's the franchise builder. He has also made lots of mistakes and was able to learn from them. There's no guarantee they go all the way but they got three years to find out. The team is about as complete as can be in the league.

 

But there's a lot of things he has done in Nashville that took vision and experience. The Weber trade, the fans might have been on his side, analytics might have agreed with him, but his peers and the players didn't. And he took a lot of hate for trading the captain early last year. But it worked. It wasn't a fluke. It wasn't a coin toss. It was a calculated trade to make the Predators better. He basically won GM of the year on it.

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11 hours ago, Commandant said:

Add to that, what you think are your holes today, and what your holes are by the time the prospect is ready are often different. 

 

BPA...  All day, every day. 

So you're telling me that lets say you need i don't know a center and its your turn to draft you're going to draft a goaltender just because that's the best prospect available when you're drafting???? Even though you don't need a goaltender????

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Yes, and then when he is NHL ready, I'm going to trade that player for the centre i need.


or you know... i could have Jose Theodore, and Cristobal Huet, and Jaroslav halak, and Yan Denis, and still draft  Carey Price.  Kinda like the habs did. 

 

But on your logic, they should have taken the centre.  Now who was the next centre taken immediately after Price?  Oh yeah, it was Gilbert Brule. 

 

 

Thanks for your facts fitting the absolute perfect example for this franchise though, and thats why you draft BPA.

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26 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Yes, and then when he is NHL ready, I'm going to trade that player for the centre i need.


or you know... i could have Jose Theodore, and Cristobal Huet, and Jaroslav halak, and Yan Denis, and still draft  Carey Price.  Kinda like the habs did. 

 

But on your logic, they should have taken the centre.  Now who was the next centre taken immediately after Price?  Oh yeah, it was Gilbert Brule. 

 

 

Thanks for your facts fitting the absolute perfect example for this franchise though, and thats why you draft BPA.

Ok in 05' we didn't need a goaltender, we needed a number 1 center. At 5 if we drafted by need we would of drafted kopitar. Then in the 3rd round if you wanted to take a goaltender quick was there bishop was there.

 

Just like in 03' we needed a number one center, the draft was full of them. What do we do we draft a winger.

 

All I am saying is for an organization that is in desperate need of a number one center we have passed on them in the draft for years. 

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32 minutes ago, Metallica said:

So you're telling me that lets say you need i don't know a center and its your turn to draft you're going to draft a goaltender just because that's the best prospect available when you're drafting???? Even though you don't need a goaltender????

Exactly as Hab did when drafted Price! Yes, is how it works sir.

Gainey asked Timmins who is better, Marc Staal or Price and he basically said flip a coin and Gainey "went off the reservation" and took the goalie, even though Theodore had just won MVP a couple years before.

(Made Doug Mclean freak out, made fun of Gainey's choice and jumped in and grabbed Brule next)

 

If one kid is rated 99 and one is rated 96, who do you choose. Seems pretty obvious doesn't it. 

 

You don't draft for current roster issues! Unless you will get a top prospect who will join club in draft year or +1, then the prospect will spend a couple or several years developing. And by times he is ready the roster could look vastly different and have different holes.

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1 minute ago, Metallica said:

Ok in 05' we didn't need a goaltender, we needed a number 1 center. At 5 if we drafted by need we would of drafted kopitar. Then in the 3rd round if you wanted to take a goaltender quick was there bishop was there.

 

Just like in 03' we needed a number one center, the draft was full of them. What do we do we draft a winger.

 

All I am saying is for an organization that is in desperate need of a number one center we have passed on them in the draft for years. 

You can target a player you may want...but will cost you to move up and grab that player (a la Tinordi...ugg) and unless is a McDavid-type, that kid could still bust.

Is too bad this year is shy on centres in top ten, but with all the 2nd picks could use 1 or 2 and maybe can target a centre later in 1st round. However, as thin as prospect pool is, simply picking 3 2nd rounders might be best way to go?

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25 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Ok in 05' we didn't need a goaltender, we needed a number 1 center. At 5 if we drafted by need we would of drafted kopitar. Then in the 3rd round if you wanted to take a goaltender quick was there bishop was there.

 

Just like in 03' we needed a number one center, the draft was full of them. What do we do we draft a winger.

 

All I am saying is for an organization that is in desperate need of a number one center we have passed on them in the draft for years. 

 

Brule was higher rated than kopitar.  Why do you assume we would have taken him?

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The mistake was their obsession with Kostitsyn in 03, thinking he would be a first overall quality player if they fixed his epilepsy problem. Should have taken Carter. No excuses.

 

2004 was a tough draft. Zajac was clearly better than Chipchura but that guy is a general disappointment. He's Lars Eller with better minutes.

 

2005 the choice was Marc Staal or Carey Price. They chose right. Kopitar was not the choice for four teams after the Habs. I love him but he wasn't on the menu and he doesn't have a Hart Trophy.

 

2006 was one of the biggest busts in Habs history. Pick Giroux and everything changes but they were picking position instead of BPA.

 

2007 if they took a centre we would have had Angelo Esposito. BPA.

 

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Ok so tell me over the last i would say 10 years because its not all on Bergevin, how has this organization address teams needs?????  If they would do a better job addressing team needs in the draft and through trades we wouldn't be in the position we are in now.

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Failing to make the moves to acquire a player doesn't mean that they have to draft a centre. 

 

Again, draft BPA and you can trade for a centre.   Drafting McCarron and De la Rose hasn't helped them to solve the centre issue, now has it.  Its not as simple as just draft centres. 

 

Talent trumps all. 

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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Failing to make the moves to acquire a player doesn't mean that they have to draft a centre

 

Again, draft BPA and you can trade for a centre.   Drafting McCarron and De la Rose hasn't helped them to solve the centre issue, now has it.  Its not as simple as just draft centres. 

 

Talent trumps all. 

How else do they get the center than?? They clone it??? If you can't trade for a center you look within the organization farm system and that's by filling a need by drafting.

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Other GMs can trade for Brayden Schenn, Tyler Seguin, Ryan Johansen, Jason Spezza or a number of other centres who have been traded in the last 6 years. 

 

The reason they could make trades is that they had talent in their system to trade for them... and no they didn't move centres for centres.  They traded talented players to get those guys.

 

If this GM can't make a trade for a centre, fire him and find a GM who can. 

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