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Metallica

Who blinks first Molson or Bergevin???

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I think Molson and Bergevin are in a stair down contest to see who blinks first. So I ask habs fans does Molson blink first and Bergevin actually make a trade to try and improve his team???? Or does Bergevin blink first and molson cleans house.

Edited by Metallica

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I think MB has already hung himself with the rope Molson gave him right after the PK trade but what do I know 

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Not really seeing the "stare down" metaphor, myself. Molson has all the cards. Not a single person in the media or the fanbase would be upset to see MB fired. What leverage does MB have? If Molson is waiting, it's not because Moron Marc is staring him down, but because he wants to wait, period.

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3 hours ago, Habopotamus said:

The only way to improve this team at this point is with draft picks 

And waiting several to numerous years for those prospects to develop? What does team do, twiddle thumbs and tank every year?

If that is the plan, Molson best up his security by hiring these guys to watch his back.

Rock machine mc.jpg

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Yeah I don't see their relationship like that at all.

 

I think Molson's only direction is to make the playoffs. I also think that MB lays out his ideas to Molson and Molson accepts them at face value.

 

If Molson was truly involved or had any hockey inclination at all the Subban trade would never have happened.

 

I don't see MB being fired and this relationship will continue as it is.

 

If Molson cared about winning the way the fans do then he would hire a great hockey mind to run this team. As long as Molson is president I don't think anything will change.

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

If Molson was truly involved or had any hockey inclination at all the Subban trade would never have happened.

Why? And you don't think Molson OKed the Subban trade?

 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Why? And you don't think Molson OKed the Subban trade?

 

 

Of course he OK'd that trade. In a way, that's a good thing; owners should defer to their GMs on hockey matters. Sure, the trade was asinine, but I'd rather have a GM make mistakes than have an owner calling the shots on hockey moves.

 

If, however, the owner cannot see that Moron Marc has led this team from almost making the Finals in 2014 to complete disaster, then he is an incompetent or irresponsible owner in a different way - i.e., he doesn't care about winning anything.

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:24 PM, Habopotamus said:

The only way to improve this team at this point is with draft picks 

Then you better be prepared to trade Price.  He re-signed early without testing free agency, so you can bet that he was promised that there would be no rebuilding, only a re-tooling.  If you're going to trade for picks, you better be getting 1st rounders, preferably in the top half of the draft.  And there's not a lot of pieces on this roster who are gonna get 1st rounders.  So failing that, you better get prospects that are one or two seasons away from making an NHL roster.

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When are people going to start saying that Bergevin should have not hired Claude Julien as head coach? 

Recycling past coaches never works for any team! 

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Doesnt matter if Bergevin is fired or not what matters is that the season 2018-19 starts with the Habs having a REAL number one centre and a partner for Weber OR a another pair of top 2 dmen. ALL of Molson's advisors are telling him his team needs this fixed. ASAP AND before the next season starts. I don't think another GM guarantees this. Granted if this isnt fixed by the time of the draft/ July first... then yes Bergevin is gone. But I just cant believe this problem isnt fixed .. with how the Habs are right now.  It would be at least Bergevin's legacy as he is thanked and kicked to the curve.  Marc got the Habs a bonified number one Centreman.  I can't see this not happening... its really not possible.  THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS the price!

The price Marc pays for the fixup is what determines if he has a chance at saving his job. If An O'Reilly like Centre costs us Pacioretty plus a number one pick AND prospect Like say Mete ? then he's lost his Job. Because tell me how not getting a centreman not (at least in appearance) seem to resolve everything,

 

Please tell me if im wrong .... and i mean it as i want to learn more about what value the players have....  These are what to me are examples of over paying-  and at the same time how could this not get us almost any player

 

Pacioretty + 1or more  roster player (Galliger or SHaw or Galchy) + Prospect (e.g. Mete) + Second or First round Pick ....AND retaining Salary  Would not get us A GUARANTEED No 1 centreman?  
so my question what would be a more realistic trade for a guaranteed no 1?

 

 

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And in my incredulous belief of Marc not being able to land a centre by deadline ...  raises my hopes that he somehow believes he has a shot at Tavares... But I really dont see that happening ... WHy would a Free agent of the level of Tavares wanna play for a team in reconstruction. Unless .... Marc si expecting to have a complete team ready for a Tavares come July first.... but that should have been the case by October 2017 not still up in the air at this juncture... gosh this is frustrating

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On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎05 at 3:57 AM, l

When are people going to start saying that Bergevin should have not hired Claude Julien as head coach? 

Recycling past coaches never works for any team! 

Sounds like you may have several examples, other than the two obvious ones. Recycling the two coaches may show how shallow French coaching pool is, or Bergevin's lack of will to go with a more inexperienced young guy.

But, seems vast majority were very happy 1 year ago when he was named coach, they cant have written him off already have they? Give Julien a higher scoring (more skilled) forward group and a deeper back end and he may 'become' a very good coach overnight.

Edited by DON
correction

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Neither.. unlike most people, I think MB is safe this year and next.. not that I agree with it, but he's got years left on his contract and no business man, Molson included, wants to pay him to sit at home plus the price of the next GM. 

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2 hours ago, CoRvInA said:

Doesnt matter if Bergevin is fired or not what matters is that the season 2018-19 starts with the Habs having a REAL number one centre and a partner for Weber OR a another pair of top 2 dmen. ALL of Molson's advisors are telling him his team needs this fixed. ASAP AND before the next season starts. I don't think another GM guarantees this. Granted if this isnt fixed by the time of the draft/ July first... then yes Bergevin is gone. But I just cant believe this problem isnt fixed .. with how the Habs are right now.  It would be at least Bergevin's legacy as he is thanked and kicked to the curve.  Marc got the Habs a bonified number one Centreman.  I can't see this not happening... its really not possible.  THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS the price!

The price Marc pays for the fixup is what determines if he has a chance at saving his job. If An O'Reilly like Centre costs us Pacioretty plus a number one pick AND prospect Like say Mete ? then he's lost his Job. Because tell me how not getting a centreman not (at least in appearance) seem to resolve everything,

 

Please tell me if im wrong .... and i mean it as i want to learn more about what value the players have....  These are what to me are examples of over paying-  and at the same time how could this not get us almost any player

 

Pacioretty + 1or more  roster player (Galliger or SHaw or Galchy) + Prospect (e.g. Mete) + Second or First round Pick ....AND retaining Salary  Would not get us A GUARANTEED No 1 centreman?  
so my question what would be a more realistic trade for a guaranteed no 1?

 

 

Why would the sabres trade O’Reily for maxpac+ when maxpac only has one year left on his contract?  Maxpac+galchenyuk IMO is too much

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Why would the sabres trade O’Reily for maxpac+ when maxpac only has one year left on his contract?  Maxpac+galchenyuk IMO is too much

I agree with ya - and btw  Im not saying we go for O'Reily he's just the example of a top Cman  that doesnt necessarily mean trading your firstborn son for.

So if Maxpac + Gal is too much what do you see as an objectively fair .....-mind you the Habs will likely overpay regardless- but to what degree according to you would be more balanced trade?

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2 hours ago, CoRvInA said:

 

I agree with ya - and btw  Im not saying we go for O'Reily he's just the example of a top Cman  that doesnt necessarily mean trading your firstborn son for.

So if Maxpac + Gal is too much what do you see as an objectively fair .....-mind you the Habs will likely overpay regardless- but to what degree according to you would be more balanced trade?

I like o’reilly, but the sabres have two top centres and are doing worse than us. Getting o’reilLu isn’t going to help turn this sinking ship around.   Unless we can also Steal 2 puck moving dman along with another centre with a guy like o’reilly, I want a younger centre like Draisaitl.  We need a tweak down of the core.  We aren’t just a centre away from being a contender.  We really only have one solid top 4 dman today and he is injured, aging and signed to he is 42.  We have Petry, who really never has played on a winner, or helped his team contend.  We have Alzner, who is a pylon. Than we have a some nice prospects that I hope we won’t screw up the development of.  

 

I would move maxpac, Price, Weber, to get a younger stud centre and another solid dman and 1st rounders. But other than maxpac, those are draft day moves.

 

move pleks, Shaw, Petry- basically anyone over 26 is fair game and go for the top pick this year.

 

before MB took over, we were are couple of players away from being a contender and had a D with a bright future in front of one of the best goalies in the world.  Needed a top.  centre anothe solid D.  Even if we hadn’t moved Subban and let Markov and radulov walk, we were pretty close to being a contender of we had given galchenyuk a real chance at centre.  If MT was fired the year of Price’s injury and we hired a real coach, things could have been different.  Instead, 6 years of MB and close to 5 years of MT and now we have more holes than Swiss cheese.

 

this team is tracking more like the Houle habs, than a team just missing one centre.

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totally Agree. And Im sure the org knows thats its a whole bunch of pieces now.  But how would the saying go?  ...And the Habs also need a Pink Ferrari?

Lets get one thing done (and perhaps you are right that perhaps getting all of the above except the centre is preferred BEFORE getting the top C...  But for the sake of the argument lets concentrate on a centre .

A centre who has been missing since the prime years of Koivu (and he was a 2C).  Again for the sake of discussion; IMO if MB got all other missing holes but the Centreman.. The mass crowd would still be dissatisfied.

I am arguing that if really(on paper) its not that hard to get a Centreman... Then MB MUST be planning to fill all the hole on  multi trades...and believes he can do so AND has got Molson's backing regardless of what the feedback from MTL and the sales and the advisors and his family friends say to his face 

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IN other words we got lots of months if not years of suffering ahead of us

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Habs29 is dead right. We are closer to the Houle era now than we have been since that moron left. Indeed, the current squad has so many holes that it has continually reminded me of the Houle teams. That's why we really should trade Patches for a significantly younger player. This team is years from contending and he is entering the back-9 of his career. It's time to look to the medium-term future, i.e contending 3-4 years from now.

 

I continue to think there is a deal to be made in which Patches brings back Nuge plus a good prospect. It is fun to imagine, though, that we could send Weber and Patches in return for Dreiseitl+. The problem with trading Weber is that doing so consigns us to years of disastrous bottom-feeding. If you're going to retool, you still need high-quality veterans to show the kids the way. I guess I see the 'retool' less as a matter of acquiring a Saviour (the stud #1 C) than a matter of assembling a critical mass of quality players everywhere in the lineup - hence the Nuge + good prospect idea.

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51 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Habs29 is dead right. We are closer to the Houle era now than we have been since that moron left. Indeed, the current squad has so many holes that it has continually reminded me of the Houle teams. That's why we really should trade Patches for a significantly younger player. This team is years from contending and he is entering the back-9 of his career. It's time to look to the medium-term future, i.e contending 3-4 years from now.

 

I continue to think there is a deal to be made in which Patches brings back Nuge plus a good prospect. It is fun to imagine, though, that we could send Weber and Patches in return for Dreiseitl+. The problem with trading Weber is that doing so consigns us to years of disastrous bottom-feeding. If you're going to retool, you still need high-quality veterans to show the kids the way. I guess I see the 'retool' less as a matter of acquiring a Saviour (the stud #1 C) than a matter of assembling a critical mass of quality players everywhere in the lineup - hence the Nuge + good prospect idea.

I’d rather do a real rebuild over 2 to 3 years than be a bubble team for another 5 to 10 year.

 

we have a GM who destroys the confidence of guys who should be among his best players - Galchenyuk/ Drouin, while holding onto or acquiring the wrong aging players  - pleks/alzner and I’d even add Weber to that list, because in another 2 years subban will be out producing him by a wider margin. 

 

Carey Price ,has managed to mask a lot of the deficiencies on this team for years, but with each bumbling move MB makes, that’s becoming harder for price to do.

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One thing I really liked about the great Mr Bob Gainey was his ability to take a walk in the falling snow with a player and friend who need to rekindle a spark or confidence. Come back Mr Gainey; please. Teams share a lot of characteristics with families. I'm still affected by the sense of Markov and Radulov.. and perhaps PK as well, that this was not their home where they were loved and respected. And who could not love and respect these guys.. 

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6 hours ago, Toronthab said:

One thing I really liked about the great Mr Bob Gainey was his ability to take a walk in the falling snow with a player and friend who need to rekindle a spark or confidence. Come back Mr Gainey; please. Teams share a lot of characteristics with families. I'm still affected by the sense of Markov and Radulov.. and perhaps PK as well, that this was not their home where they were loved and respected. And who could not love and respect these guys.. 

This is a very good point. One that affects every person in their job. I'm sure everyone can relate to a situation where they had a boss who respected and valued them. And it showed. Then a new boss comes along and they are invisible. Respect is an important word when discussing MB. Not that he has disrespected me personally, but the narrative by media seemed to point toward a take it or leave it. Hard line approach to management. Even calling out kassian ten minutes after the incident. Very insensitive and brash. 

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17 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

This is a very good point. One that affects every person in their job. I'm sure everyone can relate to a situation where they had a boss who respected and valued them. And it showed. Then a new boss comes along and they are invisible. Respect is an important word when discussing MB. Not that he has disrespected me personally, but the narrative by media seemed to point toward a take it or leave it. Hard line approach to management. Even calling out kassian ten minutes after the incident. Very insensitive and brash. 

 

There's a valid criticism of MB for sure, but I'm not so certain we should romanticize the Gainey era. For all that he had his players' backs, they still collectively quit on him down the stretch in 2009, with guys like Komisarek and Higgins mentally checking out and Kovalev pulling his usual existential crisis. The difference between the two cases is that where I always felt the players let Gainey down, I never once had that sentiment with Bergevin, who seems to think guys like Subban, Markov, and Radulov owed him a favour. (It was particularly enervating to read that MB was supposedly furious with Subban for driving a hard bargain on his contract, after MB had basically spat in his face by insisting on the bridge deal. :rolleyes: And it was quite telling that Subban repeatedly told interviewers his mega-deal was about "respect;" clearly he had NOT felt respected up to that point, and quite fairly made Bergevin pay for it).

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On 1/12/2018 at 8:19 PM, DON said:

Recycling the two coaches may show how shallow French coaching pool is, or Bergevin's lack of will to go with a more inexperienced young guy.


Why would Boston want to get rid of Julien if he was such an elite coach? I don't think it's a coincidence that they're lighting it up with Cassidy behind the bench with virtually a similar roster. This whole "french coach" BS needs to stop;  why can't the coach have siri translating the whole time during the English portion of press conferences? 

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