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Is Pacioretty A Real Leader?

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Great post.

Has any captain of any team, been the same leader in the first year, as he has in his first few years, I doubt it.

It's foolishness to gage someone on the Habs this year isn't it?

In the end he will be a great captain...

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Great post.

Has any captain of any team, been the same leader in the first year, as he has in his first few years, I doubt it.

It's foolishness to gage someone on the Habs this year isn't it?

In the end he will be a great captain...

Should have waited a year or two.

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1) Most fans care about what their Captain has to say on matters and situations. That's a fact.

2) The fact is Max hasn't been Max this season and maybe getting rid of the C and going back to 4 A's would be beneficial, kind of what I was hinting at in the first place. Some leaders embrace it, others see dents in production because of it.

3) That's great and all but it's outdated by several years. It's about what he has done for the team lately as a LEADER.

4) Where are his 3rd period snipes this season?

5) You have a very polarized perception of leadership. We will agree to disagree

1) Fans can care all they want.

What does that matter to the team's performance? zilch.

If you listen to the fans, you'll soon be sitting with them - Sam Pollock.

2) Max is our leading scorer and on pace for his usual 35+ goals... where is the drop in production.

3) He's done the same thing this year as he did that year. Max is scoring at his usual pace... he's not the issue.

4) Same as his normal pace.

5) I know that there are many different ways to lead, and not all of them are to make a knute rockne win one for the gipper speech....

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Fans don't matter is one BS statement.

Professional sports is entertainment business, same as a circus.

No fans = bye bye franchise (sooner or later).

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Fans don't matter is one BS statement.

Professional sports is entertainment business, same as a circus.

No fans = bye bye franchise (sooner or later).

Yes. But whether or not a player gives boring intereviews, or is popular with the fans, has absolutely ZERO relevance to their leadership abilities. Or to their ability to win games.

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Fans don't matter is one BS statement.

Professional sports is entertainment business, same as a circus.

No fans = bye bye franchise (sooner or later).

Okay I'll rephrase.... Whether the fan likes the Captain's interviews or not means 0, Zero, Zilch, nada about the players ability to be a leader.

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OK sure and knew what you meant, just had to be a prick about it.

I totally agree on captain's interviews, Doubt Lidstrom ever even raised his voice during any interview and Toews keeps things pretty tight.

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He produced nothing and played soft as mush yet again last night. On paper, he had lots of shots...but few were of the going to the net hard and dangerous variety. On paper he also had 2 hits, but they credit you with a hit when you just half-heartedly brush up against an opponent apparently. How bad has this guy been; on one rush, when he actually cut towards the middle, I was legitimately surprised. Mind you, it was just getting inside the dots, and perpendicular to the far boards rather than towards the net with authority...resulting in a weak backhand. Sadly, even that was big-time progress compared to his usual effort level as of late.

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I would not be surprised at this point for Pacioretty to say the C was too much and to either step down as captain or ask the team to move him so they can make someone else captain.

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I would not be surprised at this point for Pacioretty to say the C was too much and to either step down as captain or ask the team to move him so they can make someone else captain.

Nah. This is a doomsday scenario. The only way I see this happening is if the 'C' has caused so much internal division that Patches can't stand living with it anymore.

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I agree with CC, it would be shocking to me to see Patches beg off the C

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The way he has been playing when I watch, he looks completely defeated.

That I can agree with for sure.

I think the whole team (except maybe Galy, Gally, Subban, and perhaps Condon) is "defeated" - and no wonder. They lost quite a few games during this slump which they deserved to win, if by "deserved" we mean outplaying, outchancing and outworking the other team. A critical mass of players has internalized the repeated message that it doesn't matter how we play, or how much we deserve to win, we still lose. And that's why we're now seeing a team that loses twice to Columbus and then to Buffalo. The self-belief that sustains the will to battle away night after night has dissolved.

No wonder Patches looks completely demoralized. I would be too.

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I honestly don't think there's a single player who would look undefeated as captain right now. Although not many necessarily wanted them to be captain, in terms of veteran leadership, both Plekanec and Markov would have been fine choices as captain. Forget about all the reasons they were never going to be captain the point is that they have looked quite defeated over this stretch as well.

I think that one could argue that Subban rarely looks defeated but his charismatic nature brings with it many highs as well as many lows. Believe it or not Subban would be thrown under the bus to a much, much greater extent during his perceived lows. Deserving of it not, people would be much harder on him than Pacioretty during our down times; just like they would be much higher on him during our successes.

I think it's easy to point the finger at the captain but I don't think it's necessarily fair. I do get the viewpoint about the cohesion we had between the four A's but I don't really think, in terms of offence, that much has changed. Pacioretty is still all alone up there.

I personally think that during the good times, Pacioretty is the best captain we could have because he will be the one scoring our clutch goals. During the bad times, maybe there would be a better candidate or two but honestly that's up for debate and if so, it's not by much.

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That I can agree with for sure.

I think the whole team (except maybe Galy, Gally, Subban, and perhaps Condon) is "defeated" - and no wonder. They lost quite a few games during this slump which they deserved to win, if by "deserved" we mean outplaying, outchancing and outworking the other team. A critical mass of players has internalized the repeated message that it doesn't matter how we play, or how much we deserve to win, we still lose. And that's why we're now seeing a team that loses twice to Columbus and then to Buffalo. The self-belief that sustains the will to battle away night after night has dissolved.

No wonder Patches looks completely demoralized. I would be too.

The mistake that MB is making is that he does not understand that. This team needs a shake up. BIG TIME. MB has not given them the hope that they need. Le Genius and his "process" ain't working, I personally never thought it did. We have decent players, we need a couple really good players and a new coach. His P/P has steadily gone downhill. The offence has gone steadily down hill, but he can teach defence, which by the way is the easiest thing to teach a team. The rest is hard. And now the defence has gone to shit. Why is he the coach?

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The mistake that MB is making is that he does not understand that. This team needs a shake up. BIG TIME. MB has not given them the hope that they need. Le Genius and his "process" ain't working, I personally never thought it did. We have decent players, we need a couple really good players and a new coach. His P/P has steadily gone downhill. The offence has gone steadily down hill, but he can teach defence, which by the way is the easiest thing to teach a team. The rest is hard. And now the defence has gone to shit. Why is he the coach?

What purpose does changing the coach serve today.

Price looks like he's done. The skating video looks awful and this is 2.5 months into his rehab.

So a new coach jumps in, best case he rejuvenates the team we fight for a playoff spot, either sneak in and get destroyed first round, or we just fall short.

Neither of those really appeals to me. Let Therrien tank this ship.

And if you replace him. Who is this coach anyways... I have no confidence in Sylvain Lefebvre to rejuvenate this bunch and your only outside hire is Guy Boucher. If you hire Boucher that means you give him a long term contract and he's the coach for next year too. He's not taking an interim gig on a team that can't win.

And in the summer get a new coach when so many more options are available.

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What purpose does changing the coach serve today.

Price looks like he's done. The skating video looks awful and this is 2.5 months into his rehab.

So a new coach jumps in, best case he rejuvenates the team we fight for a playoff spot, either sneak in and get destroyed first round, or we just fall short.

Neither of those really appeals to me. Let Therrien tank this ship.

And if you replace him. Who is this coach anyways... I have no confidence in Sylvain Lefebvre to rejuvenate this bunch and your only outside hire is Guy Boucher. If you hire Boucher that means you give him a long term contract and he's the coach for next year too. He's not taking an interim gig on a team that can't win.

And in the summer get a new coach when so many more options are available.

There will be no other coach.

It's gonna be Marc Bergevin + assistant coaches.

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What purpose does changing the coach serve today.

Price looks like he's done. The skating video looks awful and this is 2.5 months into his rehab.

So a new coach jumps in, best case he rejuvenates the team we fight for a playoff spot, either sneak in and get destroyed first round, or we just fall short.

Neither of those really appeals to me. Let Therrien tank this ship.

And if you replace him. Who is this coach anyways... I have no confidence in Sylvain Lefebvre to rejuvenate this bunch and your only outside hire is Guy Boucher. If you hire Boucher that means you give him a long term contract and he's the coach for next year too. He's not taking an interim gig on a team that can't win.

And in the summer get a new coach when so many more options are available.

The way this team hires people I don't see any new options in the summer. Let's get a coach in here right now so he can evaluate what he has, and make plans for next year. Give him some time to figure these guys out. Then next season you are up and ready to go right from training camp. I don't know who the coach is, that is MB's job but we know we know he has to speak french. I don't think there are any of those coming up in the summer.

There will be no other coach.

It's gonna be Marc Bergevin + assistant coaches.

Molson can't put up with this crap much longer. MB may love Le Genius but nobody else does, he is finished. He has not got a clue what to do.

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I take it as a good sign that Therrien has not been canned. This is because

1. It shows that MB is keeping his eye on the long game. Yes, he could have fired Therrien earlier in the slump. But having declined to do that, he has (so far) resisted the trap of hiring a new coach from the very limited talent pool available - a pool which, as Commandant correctly observes, is likely to be deeper during the summer. That's good; it shows he is committed to hiring the best possible coach, rather than make a 'desperation' move for short-term benefit.

2. It shows that Molson is prepared to let his GM make the hockey decisions. Even more than (1), this is a VERY good sign. Nothing would be more tempting than for Molson to try to salvage playoff revenues and assuage public opinion by demanding that his GM make a 'big move' for perceived short-term gain. Molson's apparent sang-froid is very reassuring (especially after his blundering interventions vis-a-vis Cunneyworth, which basically threw the coach under the bus).

There is no doubt in my mind that Therrien will get canned at the end of this season. But hiring Lefevre or Boucher as some kind of short-term ploy? Non merci. Especially because, if they do get short-term results, we'll then be stuck with them for a longer span.

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I take it as a good sign that Therrien has not been canned. This is because

1. It shows that MB is keeping his eye on the long game. Yes, he could have fired Therrien earlier in the slump. But having declined to do that, he has (so far) resisted the trap of hiring a new coach from the very limited talent pool available - a pool which, as Commandant correctly observes, is likely to be deeper during the summer. That's good; it shows he is committed to hiring the best possible coach, rather than make a 'desperation' move for short-term benefit.

2. It shows that Molson is prepared to let his GM make the hockey decisions. Even more than (1), this is a VERY good sign. Nothing would be more tempting than for Molson to try to salvage playoff revenues and assuage public opinion by demanding that his GM make a 'big move' for perceived short-term gain. Molson's apparent sang-froid is very reassuring (especially after his blundering interventions vis-a-vis Cunneyworth, which basically threw the coach under the bus).

There is no doubt in my mind that Therrien will get canned at the end of this season. But hiring Lefevre or Boucher as some kind of short-term ploy? Non merci. Especially because, if they do get short-term results, we'll then be stuck with them for a longer span.

Ok who comes available this summer? Lemaire? carbo? Who?

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There will be no other coach.

It's gonna be Marc Bergevin + assistant coaches.

Bergevin has 1 year of assistant coaching experience... none as a head coach. Gainey had a lot of experience as a head coach when he took over the team. Its hard to be both head coach and GM at the same time. You really can't be learning the head coach thing on the fly.

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Ok who comes available this summer? Lemaire? carbo? Who?

Hey, it's not beyond the realm of human possibility that one or even all of

Julien

Vigneault

Hartley

become available. That's in addition to Marc Crawford, who is not presently available but would become so at the end of his season.

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Ok who comes available this summer? Lemaire? carbo? Who?

Who is available now?

Guy Boucher, Sylvain Lefebvre, Guy Carbonneau

Who is available in the summer that is not avaiable now.

Kevin Dineen (assistant in Chicago)

Andre Tourigny (assistant in Ottawa)

Benoit Groulx (head coach Gatineau QMJHL)

Marc Crawford (head coach Zurich Lions, Switzerland)

Philippe Boucher (head coach Quebec Remparts)

Who might be available?

Alain Vigneault and Willie Desjardins both look to be missing the playoffs.

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Hey, it's not beyond the realm of human possibility that one or even all of

Julien

Vigneault

Hartley

become available. That's in addition to Marc Crawford, who is not presently available but would become so at the end of his season.

Don't want Julien who said he could coach?

Vigneault..New York aint letting him go.

Calgary love Hartley and he already turned us down.

Crawford ....maybe. So we wait 3 or 4 months for him?

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Who is available now?

Guy Boucher, Sylvain Lefebvre, Guy Carbonneau

Who is available in the summer that is not avaiable now.

Kevin Dineen (assistant in Chicago)

Andre Tourigny (assistant in Ottawa)

Benoit Groulx (head coach Gatineau QMJHL)

Marc Crawford (head coach Zurich Lions, Switzerland)

Philippe Boucher (head coach Quebec Remparts)

Who might be available?

Alain Vigneault and Willie Desjardins both look to be missing the playoffs.

Does Kevin Dineen speak French?

I have never heard of Tourigny. It is not my job to scout coaches.

Benoit Groulx he is a possible.

Phillpe Boucher maybe not much experience.

The last 2 are not going anywhere and Willie has not done much so far him I rule out.

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