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Is Pacioretty A Real Leader?

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The C is just a letter.

Leaders lead, letter or not.

Gilmour didn't need a letter to be the leader of the Habs when Saku had cancer.

Price didn't need a letter to be the real leader before his injury.

Its always the way... the letter doesn't matter... you're either a leader or not. A leader will lead, C or no C.

Sounds like a rebuttal to defend a team that has a lousy Captain, or one that picked the wrong guy.

Is the Captain just a letter when Jonathan Toews wears it? How about Zdeno Chara? Mark Messier?

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Guest Stogey24

I just wonder if maybe the best thing to have done then, with what your saying, is to have given the C to price.

He has the C cause it was voted by the players.

Of course we all say whether he is or isn't a good captain... but none of us, not fans, not media, no one but the players knows what happens in that room when the doors are closed and its just the players in there.

But again, thats even assuming the letter matters to whether or not someone is a leader.

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I just wonder if maybe the best thing to have done then, with what your saying, is to have given the C to price.

No it isn't. It really isn't all that important who wears the C and Pacioretty is fine choice, although many would of likely picked a Gallagher if he was older.

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Sounds like a rebuttal to defend a team that has a lousy Captain, or one that picked the wrong guy.

Is the Captain just a letter when Jonathan Toews wears it? How about Zdeno Chara? Mark Messier?

Yes it is. Put Toews on a team where he's not captain and he will still be a leader. Do you think Shea Weber is going to turn into Phil Kessel in the locker room just because he only has an A on his uniform?

Leadership is about your personality, not your extra fabric.

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We're told that the players chose Patches to wear the "C." But this tells us little about the players' rationale in making that choice.

I mean, think about it:

1. The team's real leader, Price, was ruled out because of his position.

2. The team's most distinguished veteran, Markov, explicitly said he didn't want the job.

3. Another obvious leader, Gallagher, was too young.

4. A further candidate, PK Subban, was too far from the Official NHL Culture of conformity and robotic blandness. Plus his larger than life character probably got on some teammates' nerves.

So what I'm suggesting is that Pacioretty was the classic "least offensive" candidate, the guy who comes up the middle and wins, not so much because he is a genuinely compelling leader, but because the more obvious choices were ruled out, and because he has the innocuous white-bread persona that the players themselves probably saw as a useful attribute in the media-frenzied Montreal fishbowl. Note that the latter characteristic has absolutely nothing to do with your effectiveness as a leader. It's a "PR" quality - the preferred profile for the Habs as an organization. The players probably recognized that.

The Habs thus have a captain who is a symptom of a certain view of Montreal as a media environment, and weird factors that ruled out the superior candidates. He's basically the honourary media face; the real leaders this year will certainly be Price, Weber, and Markov (in that order), with Gallagher increasing in importance as the years go by and his veteran status becomes secured.

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From my experience, a letter on the jersey definitely does have an effect on and off the ice. Some people are natural leaders and will lead regardless yes, while others will look to leaders to lead. Anytime I have worn a C it made me more aware of what is asked from me and my position on the team. So if a coach or the team selected me to be a captain they seen certain qualities in me that I didn't necessarily see. But once that C goes on the jersey, you are held more accountable and you sort of take a different approach to your game. You could pick anybody on a team to be captain and you can bet that they will act and perhaps play differently knowing that some guys are looking up to them. Letters are real

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Sounds like a rebuttal to defend a team that has a lousy Captain, or one that picked the wrong guy.

Is the Captain just a letter when Jonathan Toews wears it? How about Zdeno Chara? Mark Messier?

Yes cause those players would still be leaders even without the letter.

The oilers all say messier was the leader of the 80s teams even though gretzky had the c

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From my experience, a letter on the jersey definitely does have an effect on and off the ice. Some people are natural leaders and will lead regardless yes, while others will look to leaders to lead. Anytime I have worn a C it made me more aware of what is asked from me and my position on the team. So if a coach or the team selected me to be a captain they seen certain qualities in me that I didn't necessarily see. But once that C goes on the jersey, you are held more accountable and you sort of take a different approach to your game. You could pick anybody on a team to be captain and you can bet that they will act and perhaps play differently knowing that some guys are looking up to them. Letters are real

Yes playing what tier ii hockey or aaa or something is the same as the nhl.

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Yes playing what tier ii hockey or aaa or something is the same as the nhl.

Hockey is hockey, but you wouldn't know anything about that right? Or are there numbers crunched somewhere about the effectiveness of someone wearing a letter?

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But once that C goes on the jersey, you are held more accountable and you sort of take a different approach to your game. You could pick anybody on a team to be captain and you can bet that they will act and perhaps play differently knowing that some guys are looking up to them. Letters are real

Yes, that's all true. Doesn't change the fact the letter is ceremonial. Leaders are leaders because they know how to lead, not because you sew a letter to their sweater and they magically become a new human being (this is the same as how some people get promoted to a managerial role in a business and while some succeed, for others it's just a pay raise). That's why some crumble under the pressure of being a captain while others rise to the occasion. There's also different types of leaders and some might work in one locker room and not in the other (Mr. Leader Mark Messier failed in Vancouver miserably because he did nothing to build the respect and trust of the Canucks locker room except shout orders).

But all that said, Pacioretty getting a C doesn't automatically make him the top leader of the Montreal Canadiens locker room. That will always be Carey Price until Carey Price is gone. You can put a whole slew of C's on Patches sweater. Doesn't change a thing. You can put the C on Weber and it'll still be Price as the leader. That's part of the problem. Pacioretty might be designated captain, but he isn't the legitimate captain.

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Yes playing what tier ii hockey or aaa or something is the same as the nhl.

What is this BS?

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There is truth to both sides here. Leaders will lead no matter the letter, it's their personalities some guys have it some don't.

But players that are given the C usually start to carry themselves with a lot more responsibility. A good example is Stamkos after he got the C. His play has changed dramatically from a sniping scorer to now more of a playmaker a role and you can tell that might be because of the leadership role he is now in

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Guest Stogey24

Yes playing what tier ii hockey or aaa or something is the same as the nhl.

Come on now. It still means something to have letter on your uni', no matter what league your in.

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Yes it is. Put Toews on a team where he's not captain and he will still be a leader. Do you think Shea Weber is going to turn into Phil Kessel in the locker room just because he only has an A on his uniform?

Leadership is about your personality, not your extra fabric.

That logic doesn't wash for me. What you and Commandant (and the media narrative) are saying is that:

-Max isn't the best leader on the team, but we gave him the Captaincy. That's ok, because the Captaincy is just a letter, but over the Summer we traded our best skater and justified it by a leadership deficit. We're going to trade for an archetypal Captain but keep Max because it's not it's not important.

Shea Weber should be Captain. Screw Max's feelings. I don't know he can keep the C in good conscience with that guy coming in the room. I think it's one of the bigger jokes in hockey.

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That logic doesn't wash for me. What you and Commandant (and the media narrative) are saying is that:

-Max isn't the best leader on the team, but we gave him the Captaincy. That's ok, because the Captaincy is just a letter, but over the Summer we traded our best skater and justified it by a leadership deficit. We're going to trade for an archetypal Captain but keep Max because it's not it's not important.

Shea Weber should be Captain. Screw Max's feelings. I don't know he can keep the C in good conscience with that guy coming in the room. I think it's one of the bigger jokes in hockey.

Doesn't send a good message to the locker room that the guy they personally chose as captain gets his C pulled in favour of a guy Bergevin traded for. If you knew anything about what happened with the Canucks in the mid 90s, you'd know how bad of an idea it'd be.

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Doesn't send a good message to the locker room that the guy they personally chose as captain gets his C pulled in favour of a guy Bergevin traded for. If you knew anything about what happened with the Canucks in the mid 90s, you'd know how bad of an idea it'd be.

Yeah.

But if Max himself is willing to step down and trade the C to Weber for his A, that could be another story...

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Yeah.

But if Max himself is willing to step down and trade the C to Weber for his A, that could be another story...

Messier "accepted the captaincy" from Trevor Linden and Linden was gone soon after, because everyone knew it wasn't as voluntary as they wanted everyone to think it was.

This would be a similar situation, and it's possible Therrien is stirring that pot.

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What is this BS?

It's BS to say that equating playing low level amateur hockey isn't really comparable to the NHL???

Hockey is hockey, but you wouldn't know anything about that right? Or are there numbers crunched somewhere about the effectiveness of someone wearing a letter?

I played plenty of hockey, at plenty of levels, and still play now.

I don't equate what I did to playing in the NHL.

If you talk to real pros, its not even in the same universe.

Do you really think some amateur league wehre you played once, maybe twice a week and had a practice or two... were on the ice what, 5-6 hours a week (and thats being generous) is the same as guys who do this as a full time job?

But sure man, you were almost a superstar.....

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It's BS to say that equating playing low level amateur hockey isn't really comparable to the NHL???

I played plenty of hockey, at plenty of levels, and still play now.

I don't equate what I did to playing in the NHL.

If you talk to real pros, its not even in the same universe.

Do you really think some amateur league wehre you played once, maybe twice a week and had a practice or two... were on the ice what, 5-6 hours a week (and thats being generous) is the same as guys who do this as a full time job?

But sure man, you were almost a superstar.....

I was almost a superstar just like you are an arrogant, pompous dick who wouldn't have the balls to say the things you say behind a computer screen to someone's face.

I guess we'll just pretend that a captain doesn't matter. That for generations it's been a part of the game and players talk about leadership and how important their captain is. That teams feel the need to name captains, or strip players of their captaincy to this very day. It has zero effect on anything because Commandant from the internet said so.

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It's BS to say that equating playing low level amateur hockey isn't really comparable to the NHL???

No the subject not so much, but in this case we all know it was simply a condescending, or rude remark, period. And also seemed unnecessary and uncalled for.

That's all.

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I was almost a superstar just like you are an arrogant, pompous dick who wouldn't have the balls to say the things you say behind a computer screen to someone's face.

I guess we'll just pretend that a captain doesn't matter. That for generations it's been a part of the game and players talk about leadership and how important their captain is. That teams feel the need to name captains, or strip players of their captaincy to this very day. It has zero effect on anything because Commandant from the internet said so.

"I was almost a superstar", lol, Delusions of grandeur.

Leadership is important.

And yes teams name captains and strip players of the captaincy today cause it is a function of marketing.

Lets look at the latest stripped captaincy. Do we think that Dustin Brown, a guy who captained two Stanley Cup wins isn't a good leader? Was he less of a leader then, than he is now? Is Anze Kopitar now more of a leader of the Kings than he was before because he has a C?

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I was almost a superstar just like you are an arrogant, pompous dick who wouldn't have the balls to say the things you say behind a computer screen to someone's face.

I guess we'll just pretend that a captain doesn't matter. That for generations it's been a part of the game and players talk about leadership and how important their captain is. That teams feel the need to name captains, or strip players of their captaincy to this very day. It has zero effect on anything because Commandant from the internet said so.

So do you believe that if the 2002 Red Wings right before the Stanley Cup final decided to take the C off Steve Yzerman, the Red Wings wouldn't have won the Stanley Cup?

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Messier "accepted the captaincy" from Trevor Linden and Linden was gone soon after, because everyone knew it wasn't as voluntary as they wanted everyone to think it was.

This would be a similar situation, and it's possible Therrien is stirring that pot.

Therrien just loooooooves Shea Weber. He's a perfect robot for his Jacques Lemaire knockoff system.

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I was almost a superstar just like you are an arrogant, pompous dick who wouldn't have the balls to say the things you say behind a computer screen to someone's face.

Some people don't get it. I'm guessing you played at a reasonably high level. I can relate to that because I played music semi-professionally through my teens to mid-20s. About 50 gigs a year and I taught five or six classes and had private students. I got to study under and play with a lot of my heroes in Boston and be interviewed and perform live on local radio. People who sit behind computers all day can't relate to what a cold shot it is to want something bad enough that you'll go to work 8 hours and practice three or four hours a day only to realize one day that you aren't good enough.

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