Trade Montoya traded to Edmonton

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Shaw is nothing special. That's the kind of guy good organizations develop from within, then let walk once they hit UFA status. 

[Commandant]

6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Shaw is nothing special. That's the kind of guy good organizations develop from within, then let walk once they hit UFA status. 

 

Didnt say he was special.  Just dont think he's a grunt.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

39 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Didnt say he was special.  Just dont think he's a grunt.

 

I see him as a legit 3rd line guy. Although I doubt he should keep playing given his concussion history.

 

Habs29 is correct to the extent that we should not be paying premium rates for role-players. We should be developing guys like that internally. 

[Commandant]

12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I see him as a legit 3rd line guy. Although I doubt he should keep playing given his concussion history.

 

Habs29 is correct to the extent that we should not be paying premium rates for role-players. We should be developing guys like that internally. 

 

Looking around the league, he really isn't getting a premium rate. 

 

He's at 3.9 million

Comparables include guys developped internally. 

All of these deals were for 4 years or more

 

Alex Killorn - 4.45 million
Casey Cizikas - 3.35 million
Colin Wilson - 3.937 million (signed with Nashville)
Lars Eller was at 3.5 with us

Viktor Rask 4 million
 

The cap keeps going up.... a bottom six guy who can play on the PP and slide into the top 6 if injuries hit?  Meh, its maybe a slight overpayment, but its nothing drastic. 

 

The complaint rings hollow when the team started the season with $8.5 million unspent this year

 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

The guy has scored 20 goals in this league.  He has multiple seasons over 30 points.  He has been on pace for around 30 both years as a hab but missed parts of both seasons with injuries.

 

This idea that hes just a grunt is once again habs29 playing with the facts.

Fact, he has one 20 goal year 4 or 5 years ago.  Fact he has only score over 30 points twice in his career.  Fact, his best years and production came playing with elite players on a loaded Chicago team.  Fact the hawks did not think he was worth the cap hit after declining production and being against the cap, made the right call that he is an easily replaceable piece and SHOULD be easily developed internally by a franchise that knows what it’s doing.  Further facts, he takes stupid bonehead penalties that hurt his team more than the benefit he brings.

 

fact, bringing up other bad contracts as comparables - most that those other teams regretted doesn’t justify a bad signing, or a waste of the draft picks to acquire him.

[huzer]

I don't mind Shaw. He isn't the problem on the team. He's rarely pressed to play where he isn't supposed to, and makes a salary equivalent to his peers, for the most part. I'd say his recent concussion history is rather concerning, though.

 

In an ideal world, all players would be developed internally, isn't that kinda the point/hope of the draft? Simple fact is it doesn't happen, thus teams make trades and sign UFAs. It's not just Montreal that does this, every team (shock) makes trades, signs UFAs, and some even let UFAs walk. Let's not pretend Montreal is some anomolous organization in how they handle things, regardless of how you feel about Bergevin.

 

Anyway, woohoo draft picks!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm not in a rage over Shaw, nor do I think his salary is crippling. I'm just saying that if the Habs knew what they were doing in terms of player development, they wouldn't have needed to sign him. Shaw is a minor symptom of our organizational mediocrity.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Fact, he has one 20 goal year 4 or 5 years ago.  Fact he has only score over 30 points twice in his career.  Fact, his best years and production came playing with elite players on a loaded Chicago team.  Fact the hawks did not think he was worth the cap hit after declining production and being against the cap, made the right call that he is an easily replaceable piece and SHOULD be easily developed internally by a franchise that knows what it’s doing.  Further facts, he takes stupid bonehead penalties that hurt his team more than the benefit he brings.

 

fact, bringing up other bad contracts as comparables - most that those other teams regretted doesn’t justify a bad signing, or a waste of the draft picks to acquire him.

 

And he's been on pace for other 20 goal, 30 point seasons, but has had injuries crop up. 

 

He's not a grunt.  

He's a legit top 9 forward in the NHL. 

 

But go ahead and keep exaggerating every point you make, so that things are worse than they are. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

And he's been on pace for other 20 goal, 30 point seasons, but has had injuries crop up. 

 

He's not a grunt.  

He's a legit top 9 forward in the NHL. 

 

But go ahead and keep exaggerating every point you make, so that things are worse than they are. 

So another fact - he’s chronically injury prone.

[BCHabnut]

10 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So another fact - he’s chronically injury prone.

That is my concern.  The concussions. They tend to change players.  Shaw up until now has been fine IMO. I actually like him. He wins a ton of puck battles. He's fast, and he's not scared to play a hard game. I was worried about his contract. I even created a thread about it and got laughed out of the forum because it was so early in his first year in Montreal. But I've come around on his play. My concern has moved from his contract to his concussion history. 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

And he's been on pace for other 20 goal, 30 point seasons, but has had injuries crop up. 

 

He's not a grunt.  

He's a legit top 9 forward in the NHL. 

 

But go ahead and keep exaggerating every point you make, so that things are worse than they are. 

 

He scored 20 goals once. Otherwise his totals were 12, 9, 15, 14, 12, and currently 10. Two 30 point seasons and a 29 point season so that's a little more fair. 

 

Paying $4M for Victor Rask makes sense because he's had 40 points twice as a 6'2" centre. He got it after a 48 point season where he looked like a budding top six centre. That made sense.

 

Shaw got $23.4 million at $3.9M a year after a 34 point season and cost 2 second round picks despite the Blackhawks having to trade him because they had no cap space to pay him at the time. 

 

Grunt? Nah. Legit top nine? Yes, but not a legit top six, meaning he's a third liner. His offensive stats are pretty similar to Matt Cooke, actually. I would rather not pay a premium in two second round picks for a third line agitator who should only have 5 goals and 13 points but Julien has decided to play him on the powerplay this season at an average of two seconds per game less than Brendan Gallagher. He also had 7 points on the PP last season, which with Radulov and Gallagher on the right side he never should have seen a second on the PP.