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Metallica

Here's a nice little read on habs drafting since 2012

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Meller93    131

My mind frame has always been that we draft well but our development is, to put it lightly, among the worst in the league. 

 

Theres no no easy way to tell if the drafting itself was bad, or if the development is bad, but I feel like there have been prospects developing well  before they hit the farm team or the Habs, and then struggle to make progress in our direct system. 

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Commandant    674

As I said in a long post last week, I think the Habs having a terrible farm system has been overdone, and its far better than given credit for. 

 

That said, there are some strange things in the article.

There are some strange things in there... such as suggesting that Addison and Pezzetta are prospects that have a realistic chance to make the NHL (they are longshots at best).  

 

He also suggests that McCarron will be a win when he makes the NHL.... I don't believe that to be the case.  Getting a fourth line centre out of the 25th overall pick, shouldn't be considered good drafting.  On the other hand, if Lernout becomes a 7th defenceman out of the 3rd round, that should be a win for scouting and drafting.  Some context is needed. 

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Meller93    131
8 minutes ago, Commandant said:

As I said in a long post last week, I think the Habs having a terrible farm system has been overdone, and its far better than given credit for. 

 

You’re probably right, and I might just be frustrated by the lack of high end talent we ever seem to have coming through the farm. 

 

When I think about it fairly, not many teams do. Those players often make it before they spend much time in the ahl.

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huzer    69

I've mentioned it before, the "peak" age range for the Habs is lacking, that 26-30 year old that should be driving the team right now. That period of drafting and development from 2008 or so through 2011 was horrid. I'm too lazy to go look it up right now, but not a ton of significant contributing NHLers from that time period, but I think Gallagher is the only pick doing "well". Was it drafting or development that killed that period? If we get the same type of turnaround in draft picks in the 12-15 draft classes, the Habs will be hurting for quite a while.

 

I pretty much agree with Ferraro. Given what's happened in the past, I'm not confident we can expect a strong percentage of the draft picks being regular NHL contributors.

 

 

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Commandant    674
1 hour ago, huzer said:

I've mentioned it before, the "peak" age range for the Habs is lacking, that 26-30 year old that should be driving the team right now. That period of drafting and development from 2008 or so through 2011 was horrid. I'm too lazy to go look it up right now, but not a ton of significant contributing NHLers from that time period, but I think Gallagher is the only pick doing "well". Was it drafting or development that killed that period? If we get the same type of turnaround in draft picks in the 12-15 draft classes, the Habs will be hurting for quite a while.

 

I pretty much agree with Ferraro. Given what's happened in the past, I'm not confident we can expect a strong percentage of the draft picks being regular NHL contributors.

 

 

 

2008 no first round pick (only 5 picks overall)

2009 no second rounder
2010 no second or third rounder (only 5 picks overall)

2011 no second or third rounder


Hmmmm.... wonder why those drafts didn't produce us as much talent as 

2007 two first rounders, one second rounders, two thirds (three prime NHL players, 1 other guy with 373 games)
2006 first, two seconds and a third (only one hit though)
2005 first and 2nd and then a bunch of later picks (hits on Price, Latendresse, Dagostini, S.Kostitsyn)

2004 bunch of extra late picks, hits on Grabovski, Emelin, Streit, plus even Chipchura plays 400 NHL games though i give the same critique as i give of McCarron in that a first round fourth liner is still not a real hit. 

2003 11 picks in a 9 round draft, including 2 seconds....
 

 

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huzer    69

Ok, asset management of draft picks was terrible in 08-11. Regardless, 1 successful player (2 if you count Beaulieu) from 20-25 picks is not a high success rate.

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titanfan    5

The draft is fun to look back on.  GMs gambling on teenagers, there are always going to be hits and misses.

 

I think the most important draft for the Habs was in 2001.  They had 7th overall pick, BUT Minnesota had the 6th pick and took a big centre named Mikko Koivu.   How different things might have been.

 

Our consolation prize by the way, Mike Komisarek

 

(Habs did get Plekanec in the third round that year)

Edited by titanfan

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Metallica    4

I think the draft we missed big time on was the 03' draft. If Bob at the time drafted by need we would of been set at center. We should of picked Getzlaf at 10, then in the 2nd round Bergeron at 40 we would of been set at center for the first time in a long time. Also that could of been the draft that won us a cup.

 

But Bob went kostitsyn at 10, and a guy who never played in the NHL Urquhart at 40.

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Commandant    674
2 hours ago, huzer said:

Ok, asset management of draft picks was terrible in 08-11. Regardless, 1 successful player (2 if you count Beaulieu) from 20-25 picks is not a high success rate.

 

You'd expect 1.8 players per draft... so we are off in those years by about 6 guys. 

 

20-25 picks only means so much when you look at the picks... .you can have 5 seventh rounders and end up with less NHL players than 2 2nd rounders. 

 

We gave up a lot of high picks. 

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Commandant    674
1 hour ago, Metallica said:

I think the draft we missed big time on was the 03' draft. If Bob at the time drafted by need we would of been set at center. We should of picked Getzlaf at 10, then in the 2nd round Bergeron at 40 we would of been set at center for the first time in a long time. Also that could of been the draft that won us a cup.

 

But Bob went kostitsyn at 10, and a guy who never played in the NHL Urquhart at 40.

 

Hindsight drafting can be done for any draft.   Getzlaf was taken 19th overall so there were a few teams that missed on him between us and where he was picked. 

 

but you can do that with anyone.  People say tampa has been a great drafting team. 

 

Was taking Slater Koekkoek ahead of Filip Forsberg a good pick? what about Brett Connolly over Jeff Skinner and Mikael Granlund? 

 

both top 10 mistakes by tampa. 

 

which is why you can't judge drafting by taking one pick or two picks and going, we should draft this guy, instead of that guy.  You have to look at the whole thing. 

 

2003-2007... Timmins is averaging 3-4 NHLers a draft, and gets legit star talent in guys like Price, Streit, Halak, Pacioretty, Subban, McDonagh.  this is amongst the best drafting in the NHL. 

2008-2011... Drafting is poor, part of it is a lack of picks though... only legit talent is Gallagher and Beaulieu. 

2012 - 2016... Drafting is looking pretty strong to be honest, as seen through a lot of the article. 

 

 

But that is how to evaluate it, stretches of years... not individual picks.   Every team makes bad individual picks. 

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titanfan    5
1 hour ago, Metallica said:

I think the draft we missed big time on was the 03' draft. If Bob at the time drafted by need we would of been set at center. We should of picked Getzlaf at 10, then in the 2nd round Bergeron at 40 we would of been set at center for the first time in a long time. Also that could of been the draft that won us a cup.

 

But Bob went kostitsyn at 10, and a guy who never played in the NHL Urquhart at 40.

You are right, but that is hindsight.  Things didn't turn out well.  

The thing with '01 was we were going to take Koivu, but missed by one pick.  So that isn't the same.  Had we landed him we would have had a number one centre with size.  And who knows what that might have meant to Saku's career from then on...getting a chance to play with his brother.

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Metallica    4
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Hindsight drafting can be done for any draft.   Getzlaf was taken 19th overall so there were a few teams that missed on him between us and where he was picked. 

 

but you can do that with anyone.  People say tampa has been a great drafting team. 

 

Was taking Slater Koekkoek ahead of Filip Forsberg a good pick? what about Brett Connolly over Jeff Skinner and Mikael Granlund? 

 

both top 10 mistakes by tampa. 

 

which is why you can't judge drafting by taking one pick or two picks and going, we should draft this guy, instead of that guy.  You have to look at the whole thing. 

 

2003-2007... Timmins is averaging 3-4 NHLers a draft, and gets legit star talent in guys like Price, Streit, Halak, Pacioretty, Subban, McDonagh.  this is amongst the best drafting in the NHL. 

2008-2011... Drafting is poor, part of it is a lack of picks though... only legit talent is Gallagher and Beaulieu. 

2012 - 2016... Drafting is looking pretty strong to be honest, as seen through a lot of the article. 

 

 

But that is how to evaluate it, stretches of years... not individual picks.   Every team makes bad individual picks. 

What I was saying is if we drafted by our biggest need which was center. That draft was full of centers we could of build our team around. We took a gambling when we were picking 10th. 

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8 hours ago, Commandant said:

He also suggests that McCarron will be a win when he makes the NHL.... I don't believe that to be the case.  

 

I'm shocked. SHOCKED I TELL YOU.

 

Also one can't complain about the lack of second rounders in 2010 when one of them was traded to move up for Tinordi. 

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Commandant    674
17 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I'm shocked. SHOCKED I TELL YOU.

 

Also one can't complain about the lack of second rounders in 2010 when one of them was traded to move up for Tinordi. 

 

1) are you still arguing that Mike McCarron is going to be a good NHL player, or willing to admit hes a fourth liner yet?  how many more years before you say... ben was right, McCarron was the forward version of Jarred Tinordi.

 

2) we also had an extra 2nd rounder (compensatory for david fisher) we traded away.

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Commandant    674
45 minutes ago, Metallica said:

What I was saying is if we drafted by our biggest need which was center. That draft was full of centers we could of build our team around. We took a gambling when we were picking 10th. 

 

And I'm saying every team has a pick of who they should have taken instead of who they did. 

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alfredoh2009    26

Good article.

This year is when the gambles taken by Gayney/Gauthier hurt the team.

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19 hours ago, Commandant said:

1) are you still arguing that Mike McCarron is going to be a good NHL player, or willing to admit hes a fourth liner yet?

 

I think Clowe was 25 when he had his first good NHL season, so McCarron still has time. Lefebvre has pretty much ruined any potential he had in the OHL by telling him to stop trying to be a scorer and just grind.

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