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Trade Price

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13 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I could see Price willing to waive his no trade to go west and play with McDavid, even if it means playing in frigid deadmonton.  As a positive, he probably wouldn’t be subjected to marital rumours.

 

True. Price appears to be deeply loyal to the :habslogo: but you may be onto something. I like the proposal.

 

Problem is, Talbot is 30 and not exactly Ken Dryden. Imagine a mediocre goalie behind this Bergevin-constructed gloirified fart of a defence corps? So unless we can look at the organization and say that "within three years, Lindgren or Fucale will be legit #1 goalies in the NHL," this trade would risk filling one massive hole (#1C) by creating another (G).

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John B    13

The two major obstacles in trading Price are his NMC and his cap hit.  I'm sure that just about any team in the league would want him.  The problem is...can they afford him and is he willing to go there.  I'm just not sure the Habs would get "full value" for Price.  If that's the case, then I say keep him around.

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Metallica    2

The only place price would wave his NTC to I would think it would be his home town.

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hab29RETIRED    193
2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

True. Price appears to be deeply loyal to the :habslogo: but you may be onto something. I like the proposal.

 

Problem is, Talbot is 30 and not exactly Ken Dryden. Imagine a mediocre goalie behind this Bergevin-constructed gloirified fart of a defence corps? So unless we can look at the organization and say that "within three years, Lindgren or Fucale will be legit #1 goalies in the NHL," this trade would risk filling one massive hole (#1C) by creating another (G).

I see talbot as a stop gap.  We are loaded with goalie prospects - fucale is garbage and if I recall, he doesn’t have much term.

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dlbalr    727
12 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I see talbot as a stop gap.  We are loaded with goalie prospects - fucale is garbage and if I recall, he doesn’t have much term.

 

You're correct.  Fucale's deal is up at the end of the year (and it's looking highly unlikely that he'll be qualified).  However, I don't think any of the goalie prospects have #1 upside - maybe Primeau if everything goes perfectly over the next few years.  I like Lindgren more as a #2 and I don't see McNiven being an NHL starter either.  (Hawkey has been decent in college but not to the point where he has major NHL upside - I think he's a 2/3 at best.)  The quantity is there but there also isn't high-end upside either.

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hab29RETIRED    193
5 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

You're correct.  Fucale's deal is up at the end of the year (and it's looking highly unlikely that he'll be qualified).  However, I don't think any of the goalie prospects have #1 upside - maybe Primeau if everything goes perfectly over the next few years.  I like Lindgren more as a #2 and I don't see McNiven being an NHL starter either.  (Hawkey has been decent in college but not to the point where he has major NHL upside - I think he's a 2/3 at best.)  The quantity is there but there also isn't high-end upside either.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear.  Too separate points hit jumbled together - talbot being a stop gap, and I don’t think he has much term, and meant the fucale being garbage as a separate point.  

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Link67    131

Do we REALLY want to be the team who traded away 2 franchise goalies in their prime during the last 25 years? That worked out so well last time, I am sure it won't sting as bad as the first time to watch Price go have success elsewhere while we turn into a filthy pit of despair and embarrassment, right guys? ....guys?

 

FloweryHappygoluckyIvorygull-size_restri

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hab29RETIRED    193
5 minutes ago, Link67 said:

Do we REALLY want to be the team who traded away 2 franchise goalies in their prime during the last 25 years? That worked out so well last time, I am sure it won't sting as bad as the first time to watch Price go have success elsewhere while we turn into a filthy pit of despair and embarrassment, right guys? ....guys?

 

FloweryHappygoluckyIvorygull-size_restri

It all depends on the return.  If we got Forsberg or Sakic last time around would you have been satisfied - I would have.  Loved Roy, but if we had gotten actual value, I would have been okay with the deal.  Having said that, given the management we had, it would not have mattered - that management team would have screwed up anyway.  Houle/Tremblay inherited a team that won the cup and was close - serge Savard started the mess by moving Desjardins and Leclair - 2 key guys from the cup team.

 

MB similarly inherited a team that wasn’t far off. Best goalie in the league, extremely promising D core and he ripped it apart and now all we have is price and a bunch of pieces that don’t fit together, because of the holes in the lineup. All he griffin needed to do was get a centre - and was gifted one in his first draft and he and his man agent team fxcked up galchenyuk’s development 

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xXx..CK..xXx    206
4 hours ago, John B said:

The two major obstacles in trading Price are his NMC and his cap hit.  I'm sure that just about any team in the league would want him.  The problem is...can they afford him and is he willing to go there.  I'm just not sure the Habs would get "full value" for Price.  If that's the case, then I say keep him around.

This hit the nail on the head. I think his cap hit will affect his value and we can’t afford to undersell him. I think some of the better teams in the league have relatively cheap goaltending and the cap hit is going to hurt us, but we have to bite the bullet. It’s only going to hurt so much, and here we are enjoying a season with 8 million free in space anyway.

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11 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It all depends on the return.  If we got Forsberg or Sakic last time around would you have been satisfied - I would have.  Loved Roy, but if we had gotten actual value, I would have been okay with the deal.  Having said that, given the management we had, it would not have mattered - that management team would have screwed up anyway.  Houle/Tremblay inherited a team that won the cup and was close - serge Savard started the mess by moving Desjardins and Leclair - 2 key guys from the cup team.

 

MB similarly inherited a team that wasn’t far off. Best goalie in the league, extremely promising D core and he ripped it apart and now all we have is price and a bunch of pieces that don’t fit together, because of the holes in the lineup. All he griffin needed to do was get a centre - and was gifted one in his first draft and he and his man agent team fxcked up galchenyuk’s development 

 

It really is remarkable how strong a hand Bergevin inherited - and how absolutely ineptly he played it. We should have been a league power. Instead we're a league joke.

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BCHabnut    198

So there have been more than one person on the Habs organization assess galchenyuk. Muller and Julien are only the latest. I think some onus has to be put on the millionaire kids to improve as well. I like how Chucky scores when he is playing centre. But he is not much of a playmaker and he is completely inept in his own zone. Blaming developement is one argument, and I'm sure it has a lot to do with it. In hindsight, he should have been left at centre to develope. His offensive numbers go way up at centre. But hindsight is tough too. When you want to win, do you leave that liability as the most important forward on the entire team? I don't really blame developement 100% for Chucky not being a number one centre. That said, the season is lost and now is perfect time to try it again. 

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16 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

If you want to win, you don't make David Desharnais your top six centre between 2012 and 2015.

 

It's funny how Patches seems to work best with guys who are anything but legitimate top-6 talents at C. He's had the best chemistry with DD and Danault. Indeed, that chemistry deludes some of us into thinking that those guys are acceptable #2 C. But give Patches a guy with skill like Drouin and disaster ensues.

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hab29RETIRED    193
30 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It's funny how Patches seems to work best with guys who are anything but legitimate top-6 talents at C. He's had the best chemistry with DD and Danault. Indeed, that chemistry deludes some of us into thinking that those guys are acceptable #2 C. But give Patches a guy with skill like Drouin and disaster ensues.

He played well with Galchenyuk for the small stint that galchenyuk was a centre.   but the issue is that galchenyuk never really got a sustained chance to be a centre.  First he wasn't ready and to young, because centre is such a hard position to learn.  So mgmt decided he  needed to learn how to be centre - while playing the wing.  Logic of management astounds me.

 

Than despite a strong start at centre, when he struggled after an injury, he wasn't smart enough, or defensively responsible enough to be a centre.

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2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He played well with Galchenyuk for the small stint that galchenyuk was a centre.   but the issue is that galchenyuk never really got a sustained chance to be a centre.  First he wasn't ready and to young, because centre is such a hard position to learn.  So mgmt decided he  needed to learn how to be centre - while playing the wing.  Logic of management astounds me.

 

Than despite a strong start at centre, when he struggled after an injury, he wasn't smart enough, or defensively responsible enough to be a centre.

 

If memory serves, he was close to being a PPG player at C before that injury. Imagine - any Hab approaching that level now seems unthinkable.

 

This organization has an incredible talent for turning gold into sh*t.

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On 2018-01-18 at 11:53 PM, Link67 said:

Do we REALLY want to be the team who traded away 2 franchise goalies in their prime during the last 25 years? That worked out so well last time, I am sure it won't sting as bad as the first time to watch Price go have success elsewhere while we turn into a filthy pit of despair and embarrassment, right guys? ....guys?

 

FloweryHappygoluckyIvorygull-size_restri

Finally a voice of reason.

imagine the bitch fest this site would be when price is celebrating his second cup with another team.

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39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It's funny how Patches seems to work best with guys who are anything but legitimate top-6 talents at C. He's had the best chemistry with DD and Danault. Indeed, that chemistry deludes some of us into thinking that those guys are acceptable #2 C. But give Patches a guy with skill like Drouin and disaster ensues.

Drouin isn’t a centre tho, so that is part of the problem.

give max a north-south centre with speed and watch him flourish. 

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3 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:

Drouin isn’t a centre tho, so that is part of the problem.

give max a north-south centre with speed and watch him flourish. 

 

Well, he couldn't work with Pleks in his prime either...

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50 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It's funny how Patches seems to work best with guys who are anything but legitimate top-6 talents at C. He's had the best chemistry with DD and Danault. Indeed, that chemistry deludes some of us into thinking that those guys are acceptable #2 C. But give Patches a guy with skill like Drouin and disaster ensues.

 

I can't recall who Pacioretty played with in 2010-2011 (Gomez? Desharnais? Plekanec?) but he has played well with Desharnais, Plekanec, Galchenyuk, and Danault. The Galchenyuk time was interesting because Pacioretty started developing more of a passing game with Galchenyuk finishing.

 

The thing with Pacioretty, and let me stress this, is that he should be the definition of "enigma" but he isn't Russian so nobody gives him the title. He's a high level goal scorer but not really a sniper. He pots in a lot of goals but really isn't a powerplay specialist. He can score at any period, can pot in game winners, pot in empty net goals, but struggles in the playoffs. He's completely dependent on whether he's on a hot streak or cold streak. He's also good defensively and on the penalty kill so he isn't completely useless without the puck, but he has a tendency to be passionless in games regardless if the puck is on his stick or not. I don't think the centre matters. I've seen him in international competition and he's the same player. The only question is whether he's hot or cold.

 

That's a really good hockey player, but not a hockey player you rely on. That's a guy who is your third or fourth best forward on a deep team. It's obvious that Subban was his engine for years, followed by Radulov. They drove the truck and he parked it. 

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Commandant    716
34 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I can't recall who Pacioretty played with in 2010-2011 (Gomez? Desharnais? Plekanec?) but he has played well with Desharnais, Plekanec, Galchenyuk, and Danault. The Galchenyuk time was interesting because Pacioretty started developing more of a passing game with Galchenyuk finishing.

 

The thing with Pacioretty, and let me stress this, is that he should be the definition of "enigma" but he isn't Russian so nobody gives him the title. He's a high level goal scorer but not really a sniper. He pots in a lot of goals but really isn't a powerplay specialist. He can score at any period, can pot in game winners, pot in empty net goals, but struggles in the playoffs. He's completely dependent on whether he's on a hot streak or cold streak. He's also good defensively and on the penalty kill so he isn't completely useless without the puck, but he has a tendency to be passionless in games regardless if the puck is on his stick or not. I don't think the centre matters. I've seen him in international competition and he's the same player. The only question is whether he's hot or cold.

 

That's a really good hockey player, but not a hockey player you rely on. That's a guy who is your third or fourth best forward on a deep team. It's obvious that Subban was his engine for years, followed by Radulov. They drove the truck and he parked it. 

 

He's a goal scorer who goes on hot and cold streaks?

 

Like nearly every goal scorer in the NHL. 

 

Follow any goal scorers around the league.  They all do it.  They all go 6-7 games with 5 goals, and then 6-7 games with 1 or none.  That's the nature of the position. 

 

Its not an enigma, its just the way things are with goal scorers.  Whether its Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kucherov, Pacioretty, Pavelski, Kessel, Neal, Forsberg, go on and on through the league. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Commandant said:

He's a goal scorer who goes on hot and cold streaks?

 

Like nearly every goal scorer in the NHL. 

 

Sure. It's great to just write it off as a problem every player has, but many of those players can still drive play when they can't score. Pacioretty goes limp. He becomes absolutely useless on offence, and does little to help his linemates. We've watched game after game of "Oh Pacioretty made a good drive or two!" and then he's invisible for the rest of the game. That's why he gets the Casperetty nickname. Other players might not be scoring, but Pacioretty stops playing (offensively). And without a Subban or Radulov to kickstart him, he's having the worst healthy season of his career.

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Commandant    716

The stats show a good defensive player who drives possession even when not scoring... so I'm not sure that is true. 

 

Does he have bad games? sure.  Are all the games he doesn't score bad? Nope.  Is he useless when not scoring? Nope. 

 

do other scorers have bad nights? Yup.

 

I think its a matter of watching us watching 70- 82 habs games a year, and not watching any other team that much. And then we get on Patch for a bad game in a way we'd never get on Ovechkin, or Stamkos, or Kucherov, or Kessel, or Neal or all the others. 

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7 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I think its a matter of watching us watching 70- 82 habs games a year, and not watching any other team that much. And then we get on Patch for a bad game in a way we'd never get on Ovechkin, or Stamkos, or Kucherov, or Kessel, or Neal or all the others. 

 

Nah I watch plenty of other teams and have watched the Predators more than the Habs this season.

 

Pacioretty isn't on Filip Forsberg's level as a player, even if he can produce similar offence.

 

Neal is a better example. When Neal went cold, Laviolette put him on the bottom six. When Pacioretty goes cold, he just pulls the top line down to his level. When Forsberg goes cold, he's still trying to make things work and they just don't go in. Pacioretty goes limp.

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Commandant    716

I think Pacioretty is one of the best wingers in the league.  He's one of very few who can actually have a drastic effect on and can drive possession.  He's one of the few wingers who has made centres into better possession players when they are with him instead of vice-versa.  Its a reason why he can succeed with a Danault or a Desharnais, and did so for so long. 

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18 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I think Pacioretty is one of the best wingers in the league.  He's one of very few who can actually have a drastic effect on and can drive possession.  He's one of the few wingers who has made centres into better possession players when they are with him instead of vice-versa.  Its a reason why he can succeed with a Danault or a Desharnais, and did so for so long. 

 

I agree, he is one of the best wingers in the league. 

 

But making him your best forward is like when Vanek was the best forward in Buffalo, or Gaborik in Minnesota, or even Kessel in Toronto. He shouldn't be the best forward on any club. He's the best forward in Montreal. That's the problem. And we had several years to change that and didn't. He's now coming up to his free agency in the summer of 2018. You don't keep him. You trade him and get a package back that will improve this club for the future. 

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