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Commandant

The Market for Max Pacioretty

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Interesting set of options.  If Max can stay hot longer than he usually does and keep scoring, those options will grow.  I hope he bucks his career trend and stays hot as fire right up to the deadline.

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Wait tell after July 1st. Let him be your plan b if you can't land your plan a.

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5 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Wait tell after July 1st. Let him be your plan b if you can't land your plan a.

 

I think teams will give you more now.  If you get him now, you get 2 playoff runs.  If you wait til summer, you only get 1.  Teams will likely pay more for the extra year of having him for the playoffs. 

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5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I think teams will give you more now.  If you get him now, you get 2 playoff runs.  If you wait til summer, you only get 1.  Teams will likely pay more for the extra year of having him for the playoffs. 

If you land tavares July 1st you lose a sniper for him. If you fail to land tavares then you can look at trading him for a center.

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Tavares has a history of making whoever he plays with better.

 

Whether thats Drouin, Galchenyuk or both, I'm not worried about who his winger will be. 

I also think its highly unlikely we sign him.  I'd rather take the increased value of Pacioretty now, rather than waiting on something unlikely to happen. 

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4 hours ago, Metallica said:

If you land tavares July 1st you lose a sniper for him. If you fail to land tavares then you can look at trading him for a center.

Like I've said before, I seriously doubt Tavares will sign anywhere but in Long Island. Our chances of signing him are extremely slim.

 

If you can get more for Max this year, then I think that option should be seriously considered (as long as the offer is worth it).

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Tavares has a history of making whoever he plays with better.

 

Whether thats Drouin, Galchenyuk or both, I'm not worried about who his winger will be. 

I also think its highly unlikely we sign him.  I'd rather take the increased value of Pacioretty now, rather than waiting on something unlikely to happen. 

Yeah but you're not the gm. You need to think what Bergevin is doing. His ego still thinks this core group can win so he isn't going to trade anyone from it. Plekenec maybe since he is a ufa. He has kept his close to 9mil in cap space all year, why? Because he is putting all his eggs in the tavares basket.  So if he is planning to go hard after tavares July 1st he isn't going to trade Pacioretty now. Unless he gets a offer that's to good to say no to. If tavares doesn't plan out and he doesn't land him, then he trades Pacioretty.

 

Don't look for any big deals to happen with this team tell July 1st.

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I don't believe he kept the cap space for the tavares basket. 

 

I believe he ####ed up and thought markov would take his deal at a home town discount and when Markov didn't that there was no one else worthy of signing. 

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6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I don't believe he kept the cap space for the tavares basket. 

 

I believe he ####ed up and thought markov would take his deal at a home town discount and when Markov didn't that there was no one else worthy of signing. 

Why hasn't he used the cap space then? He likes to see how much worse things can get????? I think his plan was to get big Joe to sign Here and that didn't work out so now he is going to try with tavares which is why he is leaving himself with more money to play with when it comes to trying to negotiate with tavares.

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17 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Why hasn't he used the cap space then? He likes to see how much worse things can get????? I think his plan was to get big Joe to sign Here and that didn't work out so now he is going to try with tavares which is why he is leaving himself with more money to play with when it comes to trying to negotiate with tavares.

 

Who would he use the cap space on? By the time Markov said, "Later dude" there wasn't anybody left worth signing, and the' Habs nearly empty prospect cupboard wasn't bringing any high-priced talent in trades. 

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24 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Why hasn't he used the cap space then? He likes to see how much worse things can get????? I think his plan was to get big Joe to sign Here and that didn't work out so now he is going to try with tavares which is why he is leaving himself with more money to play with when it comes to trying to negotiate with tavares.

 

What would he use the cap space for. 

 

The season started shit from day one.  They were something like 1-6 to start the year and never recovered. 

 

There is no reason to trade our picks and prospects to get a quick fix for this season and use the cap space. 

 

If we looked like a contender just missing a piece, we could have added one, but we were never in position to mortgage the future. 

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MB is stubborn and arrogant to his detriment.  We have seen it with examples from PK trade to Radulov to Markov ..

 

The extra cap space has nothing to do with Tavares ( he isn't signing with the Habs...period )

 

Pacioretty is one option to trade to try to fill needs of this team:

 

1. Prospect depth ( been a very long time since I have seen these few prospects to be excited about.. That is that one can see a future for this club )

 

,2. Defense and Center position .

 

Best market for Max and full market for current position of team is to :

 

Get quality prospects ( risk factor as never guaranteed how they turn out ) PLUS fill the organization need for C and D.

 

As the game was just played vs St Louis, I couldn't help but look at the Blues as prime trade candidate for Montreal...

 

 

They have depth prospects with ' potential " at Center Position. :

 

1. Jordan Kyrou

 

Strong skater, with decent size and all round game. ( #2 C potential) 

 

2. Robert Thomas ..skilled but needs to work on his DEF and all round game..like many young skilled players his age.

 

3. Klim Kostin: highly skilled.  Off the charts as close can get ..High risk / reward....MB wouldn't touch him. But represents a gamble to yield a potential number 1 C

 

4. Tage Thompson: disappointing season but good all round prospect with size. 

 

The Blues have 4 solid C prospects the Habs can look at

 

 

PLUS a DEF:

Ideally: and given that Pacioretty has been one of top scorers Last 5 years...

1. Vince Dunn. Young all round , good skater for the new NHL

 

Or size : ( I can't see St Louis trade him buy worth a shot : )

 

2. Colton Parayko

 

Or one of their other  D prospects.. 

 

A Pacioretty trade for as an example with Blues for a Jordan Kyrou, Vince Dunn or a D prospect  and a 2019 or 2020 first should be considered ( blues don't have their 2018 first due to Schenn deal ) and blues get their LW for Schenn.

 

An example to follow..instead of a trade for older players that this team still would havd holes to fill.

 

Fill your cupboard.. Fill the gaps of team.

 

On another topic I will post separately. Molson needs to hire a President of Hockey operations ( he continues his function as governor/ board / league Montreal President..). But get someone like Bobby Smith in that role of President hockey operations and let him review MB.. And perhaps interview others like Vince Damphousse for the GM role once and if he decided to fire MB.

 

BUT Molson needs to delegate that to new President in today's NHL

 

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Kyrou is NOT a centre.

 

Hes a right wing.

 

Colton Parayko is a top 4 d on the blues.  They arent moving him at the deadline.

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51 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Kyrou is NOT a centre.

 

Hes a right wing.

 

Colton Parayko is a top 4 d on the blues.  They arent moving him at the deadline.

No Dunn or Parayko will NOT be moved. But a starting point. And depends what Blues would be willing to give up..

 

One of their C prospects,  D prospects ( not on their roster) plus a future 1st round ..( as point to negotiate once they say no to a Parayko) 

 

Kyrou has initially been a C, but Sarnia last year and most of this year has played as a RW given is strong skating and drive to net and they have enough Centers and lack RW..

 

 

In any event.. MB. ... I wouldn't be confident in his ability go be a " mini " version of Sam Pollock....more than likely he pulls his usual short term side way deals.. And keeps going for 4th liners.. 

 

 

Why I alluded to getting a President of Hockey operations ( Bobby Smith as one example ) and let him have full reign on what to do with MB.

 

But back on topic Max Pacioretty.. Market should be significant for contending teams like the Blues and be in position for Montreal to fill lot of their deficiencies. But I do not see MB have that ability to do so unfortunately.

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If you get an "impact" deal for Pacioretty - the kind of infusion of young talent this team desperately needs, especially at C - then you take it. You don't turn it down mooning over the hypothetical signing of Saviour Tavares. Just my opinion, but the last thing we need is to see Bergevin standing there with his d*ck in his hand yet again, going "gee, we had a plan...it just didn't work...la la la laaaa"

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Most forwards who make the nhl were centres coming up.

 

Kyrou has spent two years at rw.

 

The top c on sarnia is adam ruzicka? A decent player, but no superstar.  If kyrou was a centre, theyd bump ruzicka to the second line and play kyrou at centre.  Hes a winger.

 

Hes a great prospect.  However, acquiring him with the idea you are solving the center issue is foolhardy.  At least with drouin he played centre in junior (after MacKinnon left) and in the ahl.  With kyrou hes purely a winger now.

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This president stuff is meh to me.

 

No matter what the title is... someone is is in charge of hockey.  Right now its bergevin as gm and a bunch of assistant gms under him.

 

The structure of a president of hockey witha gm under him doesnt change anything.  The president has the final say now.  The GM is his underling.  Its the same thing. Only the titles have changed.

 

The issue isnt the title... its that Bergevin is a shit hockey exec, and as long as hes tops on the totem pole.. he has final say and hes failed with that.

 

So.whatever hire a president... hire a gm... doesnt matter what title you give the new guy as long as bergevin is removed from.the position of power

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24 minutes ago, Commandant said:

This president stuff is meh to me.

 

No matter what the title is... someone is is in charge of hockey.  Right now its bergevin as gm and a bunch of assistant gms under him.

 

The structure of a president of hockey witha gm under him doesnt change anything.  The president has the final say now.  The GM is his underling.  Its the same thing. Only the titles have changed.

 

The issue isnt the title... its that Bergevin is a shit hockey exec, and as long as hes tops on the totem pole.. he has final say and hes failed with that.

 

So.whatever hire a president... hire a gm... doesnt matter what title you give the new guy as long as bergevin is removed from.the position of power

 

I hear what you're saying, and it seems logical, but why is it that it's standard practice to have a distinct person in the president's position, not the owner?

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42 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

If you get an "impact" deal for Pacioretty - the kind of infusion of young talent this team desperately needs, especially at C - then you take it. You don't turn it down mooning over the hypothetical signing of Saviour Tavares. Just my opinion, but the last thing we need is to see Bergevin standing there with his d*ck in his hand yet again, going "gee, we had a plan...it just didn't work...la la la laaaa"

 

When it comes to Tavares, at MOST, I expect the traditional Sundin/Hull/Shanahan/Hossa etc yearly taunting about how they almost came here.

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38 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I hear what you're saying, and it seems logical, but why is it that it's standard practice to have a distinct person in the president's position, not the owner?

In today's NHL and recent past more teams are going this route. With evolution of duties and teams and number of teams. Always Top down management.

 

You are only as strong as your strongest leader. Look at today's business world and evolution away fr " Bricks and Mortar" companies to online " Amazon " etc.. Of the world.

 

What worked in past doesn't work today.

 

Molson has lot of other duties and can still be President or other label.. ( Re: akin to CEO vs Charmain vs President). All serving different functions.

 

President of Hockey Operations would serve strictly on the Hockey end product and its channels.  All I am saying.

 

Molson is not a Hockey person trained nor should he be. But he should delegate and him knowing full well should look at such structures. And pass it to this person what to do with MB and analyze from a different point of view with full control and trust.

 

Plus the GM would be accountable to the President Hockey OPs and not to the owner.

 

My thinking , although other candidates Bobby Smith keepers jumping back at me for many reasons but including the tie to him winning the 1986 cup and keeping some b continuity of History back. Him then brining someone like Damphousse serves many functions including a French speaking GM ( which is another topic on its own and something again in today's world isn't as relevant.. But I get it ..( don't go there ) )

 

In any event.. Max Pacs..is market value... opportunity to fill needs..  Or else DONT trade him.

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If you don't find the trade that fits I say keep him and use him at the draft to trade up for dahlin. 

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10 hours ago, HabsWEST said:

No Dunn or Parayko will NOT be moved. But a starting point. And depends what Blues would be willing to give up..

 

One of their C prospects,  D prospects ( not on their roster) plus a future 1st round ..( as point to negotiate once they say no to a Parayko) 

 

Kyrou has initially been a C, but Sarnia last year and most of this year has played as a RW given is strong skating and drive to net and they have enough Centers and lack RW..

 

 

In any event.. MB. ... I wouldn't be confident in his ability go be a " mini " version of Sam Pollock....more than likely he pulls his usual short term side way deals.. And keeps going for 4th liners.. 

 

 

Why I alluded to getting a President of Hockey operations ( Bobby Smith as one example ) and let him have full reign on what to do with MB.

 

But back on topic Max Pacioretty.. Market should be significant for contending teams like the Blues and be in position for Montreal to fill lot of their deficiencies. But I do not see MB have that ability to do so unfortunately.

Mini version of Sam Pollack??????🙄.  MB isn’t suited to be the garbage man in a Sam Pollack organization.  He seems more what you’d get if you created a test tube baby from the genes of Harold Ballard and Rosaane Barr.

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The first proposal I've seen that I would do for Pacioretty is the one that involves Kyrou and Parayko 👍 It looks so good to me that they wouldn't do it. 

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Parayko already plays over 22:30 per game for the Blues and has 26 points this year.  He's a legit top 4 and part of the reason they are a contender that would look to add a pacioretty.  Forget him. 


I think Dunn might be possible, but still unlikely. 

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