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I would choose Niemi over Lindgren


REV-G

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Choosing which players to keep and which ones to send down or trade is sometimes obvious and other times not so much.

 

I haven't been watching their games for a while now but I still read about them and follow. I'm actually hoping they lose all their remaining games to try to be in the top 3 for the draft and the lottery.

 

One observation I've made is that there have been a number of reporters who made the comment that the team enjoys and is confident playing in front of Niemi. When I've watched a game he seems confident and seems to be challenging shooters and makes the big saves.

 

If I was the decision maker I would seriously consider keeping him as my backup next year for the following reasons.

1. He has performed better than Lindgren in front of basically the same team over the past few months.

 

2. At this point we are not totally sure how Carey Price will do injury wise next year. I think we had the same feelings about Markov when he injured his knee for the second time a few years back but he came back strong and healthy and played at a high level again. We all want that for Price but we all know there's no guarantee. If Price is injured again next year who would we want as our back up? Niemi or Lindgren?

 

3. Reuniting Niemi with his former goalie coach, Stephane Waite may be one of the reasons for his great return to form with Montreal which means he may play this way for all of next year again if the two stay together. 

 

4. We must make sure that we are better at every position next year. If we add a #1 centre [John Tavares??] and if our top draft pick this June is high enough so that he makes the team next year, we have to make sure we have a very solid, reliable backup to help Price and win some games but also be able to step in if injuries hit. I think Niemi is best equipped right now to do that for us. 

 

5. I had higher hopes for Charlie Lindgren. I know some goalies take longer to develop but I'm beginning to wonder if he will develop into a #1 goalie. At this point I'm not sure I want to put too much faith in him to be able to step in and do the job if Price goes down.

 

6. Why release a goalie [Niemi] for nothing when he either could help us or if we kept him around until next fall, then trade him and get something for him when some team likely will be in need of a solid backup. To me it's just smart asset management. If Lindgren steps up and does well, then we will have something that some other teams need and we'll get something in return. For me it's a win win situation to keep Niemi and let things fall where they will. Releasing him and letting him walk for nothing accomplishes nothing. 

 

What do you think?  

 

 

 

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I agree.  Lindgren has some holes in his game that need work...he's not ready to be THE backup to Price yet.  Some more time in the AHL with occasional call-ups to check on his progress seems the prudent course for his development next season.  Niemi has looked very solid, and it's worth re-signing him.  If Lindgren takes a quantum leap forward and challenged for the backup role next season, great...it's a nice problem to have. 

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If we have confidence in some of our goalies, I'm not really thinking Fucale here, developing in our system then I think, based on what Commandant said,  I would seriously consider our best interests over the next year or two and sign Niemi for two years and trade Lindgren. Unless of course they feel that Lindgren is developing into at least a solid backup. 

 

I think Niemi might want to stay with us since Waite is here to work with him and keep him on track. 

 

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2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Niemi is likely going to sign with a contender in the summer. Honestly I think Tampa was dumb not to trade for him at the deadline.

 

You may well be proved correct.

 

GMs seem to have made up their minds about Niemi: he's an old guy, he sucked for a while there, who cares if he's been much better this season. He deserves an NHL job and I hope he gets one.

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

The problem is that Lindgren is

 

1) Signed

2) Requires waivers to go to the AHL. 

 

 

I thought he had one more season where he could go up/down without consequences....damn.  One more hole in the roster to worry about now I guess.

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33 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

I thought he had one more season where he could go up/down without consequences....damn.  One more hole in the roster to worry about now I guess.

 

Lindgren deserves a shot in 18-19. If he slips up there's bound to be another Niemi type available. There's a lot of young guys breathing down Lindgren's neck. It's gonna be survival of the fittest.

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8 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Lindgren deserves a shot in 18-19. If he slips up there's bound to be another Niemi type available. There's a lot of young guys breathing down Lindgren's neck. It's gonna be survival of the fittest.

Actually that's a good point. There probably will be guys like Niemi out there. I'm still impressed with him though. I presume Waite's input to MB about Lindgren and what he feels Lindgren is capable of will be a key determining factor. 

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1 hour ago, REV-G said:

Actually that's a good point. There probably will be guys like Niemi out there. I'm still impressed with him though. I presume Waite's input to MB about Lindgren and what he feels Lindgren is capable of will be a key determining factor. 

 

Lindgren is a rare bird in that he's a righty like Hutchinson, Domingue, and Mason (the only other right goalies in the league right now). Righties as goalies are rare (only 22 in the history of the league have played 150 games or more) and have often been the crash and burn types (Theodore, Mason, DiPietro, Garon, Hiller recently) though that's not to say all are (Barrasso, Fuhr, Vokoun, Crozier). There's been a few examples over the years of guys looking like they would be a big deal but it's because skaters weren't used to playing against a righty and once they finally scouted them the goalies burned out. 

 

The funny thing.. Cayden Primeau is also a righty and he's looking great right now. So Montreal, especially Waite, might want to see as much as he can get out of Lindgren and see if he's truly talented or just a righty getting the best of shooters until they figure him out.

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15 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

What I have seem is that Niemi is way better than Lindgren.  I see a Tokarski Budaj scenario repeating here. I think I would prefer Niemi for one more year and leave Lindgren in the minors.

Niemi has good numbers this year after horrible start, but next season will be old-timer softball age and Lindgren is just 24 and has looked fine.

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I keep bringing it up but mid season I made a thread that the Habs need a better backup, especially considering how Price seemed to be fatigued and injured this year.  I personally feel that right now Lindgren is more similar to Montoya than Niemi. 

 

To put it another way, outside of the right hand catching mit, Lindgren is a Montoya or Montoya Lite (at this early stage of his career), whereas Niemi is a Price Lite.

 

Prior to this season, I thought Pittsburgh was smart with how they handled their goalie situation, simply having a 1a and 1b. As a result,  I thought they were smart to acquire Niemi the off season last year after having lost Fleury to Vegas. Things didn’t work out but you can see their thought process and it’s only one year later.

 

The only concern is the inevitable trend that comes with age. Lindgren will continue to progress and Niemi will either stagnate or even regress to how he performed at the beginning of this year. 

 

If Lindgren were waiver exempt, then I would keep Niemi as well. Lindgren isn’t, however, and I’m thinking the likelihood is indeed that Niemi will be gone.

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55 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I keep bringing it up but mid season I made a thread that the Habs need a better backup, especially considering how Price seemed to be fatigued and injured this year.  I personally feel that right now Lindgren is more similar to Montoya than Niemi. 

 

To put it another way, outside of the right hand catching mit, Lindgren is a Montoya or Montoya Lite (at this early stage of his career), whereas Niemi is a Price Lite.

 

Prior to this season, I thought Pittsburgh was smart with how they handled their goalie situation, simply having a 1a and 1b. As a result,  I thought they were smart to acquire Niemi the off season last year after having lost Fleury to Vegas. Things didn’t work out but you can see their thought process and it’s only one year later.

 

The only concern is the inevitable trend that comes with age. Lindgren will continue to progress and Niemi will either stagnate or even regress to how he performed at the beginning of this year. 

 

If Lindgren were waiver exempt, then I would keep Niemi as well. Lindgren isn’t, however, and I’m thinking the likelihood is indeed that Niemi will be gone.

Saying Niemi is Price lite, is like saying Plekanec during his peak years was Crosby lite.

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29 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Saying Niemi is Price lite, is like saying Plekanec during his peak years was Crosby lite.

 

I think he meant Lindgren is on the path to be a career backup whereas Niemi is better than a backup but not good enough to be a starter. 

 

I think it's too early to evaluate Lindgren that way,  while Niemi we know what he is. 

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33 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Saying Niemi is Price lite, is like saying Plekanec during his peak years was Crosby lite.

Niemi has won a Stanley Cup as a starter and is more balanced in the net than Lindgren and Montoya. That’s one of Price’s strengths. I do believe it could be argued that both Montoya and Lindgren have perhaps even more athleticism and reflexive instincts than Price whereas Price relies on positioning and situational awareness. Similar to Niemi. Niemi and Price are also bigger in the net. Niemi and Price both look calm in the net as well whereas Montoya and Lindgren do not.

 

I obviously think Lindgren has a higher ceiling than Montoya and Price is better than Niemi but in the present, I trust Niemi’s style more whereas I tend to be more impressed by Lindgren’s “amazing” saves.

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8 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I think he meant Lindgren is on the path to be a career backup whereas Niemi is better than a backup but not good enough to be a starter. 

 

I think it's too early to evaluate Lindgren that way,  while Niemi we know what he is. 

It’s certainly part of it but I do agree that Lindgren has the capability to be a starter in this league in the future. We’re talking about next year though and in that sense if Price were to go down and we had a decent team, I would trust Niemi to carry the load as a starter over Lindgren next year

 

I’d also be very surprised if Lindgren ever became the Habs starter in which case shopping him at any point as has been suggest by REV-G wouldn’t be the worst idea. Though I do think now is too early.

 

What I’d be fine with next season:

 

Price

Niemi

 

What I expect to happen (60%):

Price

Lindgren

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I would chose Lindgren over Niemi.  Ideally Lindgren would be able to go to the minors for one more season to work on his game and come back as the backup 19-20 season, but waivers will prevent that from happening.  Long term I think Lindgren has the potential to be better than what Niemi is right now.  I also believe he has the potential to have better trade value in a year or two than Niemi has right now or will have in the future.   As long as Price is in a Habs uniform, he will be the starter and play the vast majority of the games regardless of who the backup is.  Perhaps Lindgren shows the same potential as Cam Talbot did with the Rangers and the Habs can get a similar return (3 picks - 2nd, 3rd, 7th rounders) if they trade him in a year or two.  Perhaps even as good of return as Boston got for Martin Jones (1st rounder and prospect Kuraly).

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Regarding Lindgren's waiver status, he is exempt for next season.  He has four waiver-exempt years from his signing season (goalies get longer than skaters) and this is only year three (he signed in 15-16).  He's also 43 games away from needing waivers based on games played so it's a safe bet that he'll be exempt through next year.

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If Lindgren can go down, sign Niemi. 

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

If Lindgren can go down, sign Niemi. 

 

I agree, but if they want McNiven getting starter minutes in Laval then Lindgren as backup next season might be written in pen. 

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