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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Carey Price: the 'WTF' thread

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14 minutes ago, Chris said:

Apparently if he just changes his attitude, things will be fine

 

I thought it was interesting that Marky Marc explicitly stated that Price's attitude was part of the problem. This suggests that our speculation was right that Price realized early that the team was garbage and checked out mentally.

 

That's what Bergevin is blaming: a team of players who lost any belief in their team. Of course the real issue is why proven, dedicated players like Price lost that belief in the first place, and the answer is that their GM is a bungling bozo who made all the wrong moves. But as usual, Bergevin always blames the players. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I thought it was interesting that Marky Marc explicitly stated that Price's attitude was part of the problem. This suggests that our speculation was right that Price realized early that the team was garbage and checked out mentally.

 

That's what Bergevin is blaming: a team of players who lost any belief in their team. Of course the real issue is why proven, dedicated players like Price lost that belief in the first place, and the answer is that their GM is a bungling bozo who made all the wrong moves. But as usual, Bergevin always blames the players. 

Bergevin puts blame on everyone else but himself. This wasn't CJ coaching staff it was his, this wasn't CJ players its his. This is the first time that I seen a  Coach come into a new team and not be able to hire his own  staff. Why because there all Bergevin buddy's and you can't fire them. The blame here is the guy who gave you the line "you want loyalty buy a dog."

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Another interesting quote came from Danault, who said that everyone needs to buy into Julien's system from the start of the season next year. This means that he doesn't believe everyone did so this year. Gallagher's remarks were subtler but he too suggested a team that was not 'on the same page' from the get-go. 

 

I'd speculate that Galchenyuk is a big part of what they're talking about, but it doesn't bode well for CJ that even as a brand-new coach he had trouble getting buy-in from a significant chunk of the team.

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Another interesting quote came from Danault, who said that everyone needs to buy into Julien's system from the start of the season next year. This means that he doesn't believe everyone did so this year. Gallagher's remarks were subtler but he too suggested a team that was not 'on the same page' from the get-go. 

 

I'd speculate that Galchenyuk is a big part of what they're talking about, but it doesn't bode well for CJ that even as a brand-new coach he had trouble getting buy-in from a significant chunk of the team.

Do you think a big part of that is because CJ couldn't bring in his own coaching staff? CJ not only had to teach the players but also the coaching staff.

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13 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Another interesting quote came from Danault, who said that everyone needs to buy into Julien's system from the start of the season next year. This means that he doesn't believe everyone did so this year. Gallagher's remarks were subtler but he too suggested a team that was not 'on the same page' from the get-go. 

 

I'd speculate that Galchenyuk is a big part of what they're talking about, but it doesn't bode well for CJ that even as a brand-new coach he had trouble getting buy-in from a significant chunk of the team.

 

I dont think its galchenyuk.

 

Weve heard multiple.times.that his buy in was better and that his defensive game is much improved over last year.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Metallica said:

What do you mean???? Sure we do look at Team Canada and how he played. That’s how Price will look on a team that’s properly built and coached.

 

National teams and all-star teams tell you nothing as to how a player will perform with an NHL team for 82 games and playoffs.

 

"Your worst defenceman is Jay Bouwmeester" is not a realistic scenario for any NHL club.

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58 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I dont think its galchenyuk.

 

Weve heard multiple.times.that his buy in was better and that his defensive game is much improved over last year.

 

 

 

Well, you can read Danault's and Gallagher's comments as targeting the *start* of the season specifically. (I think it's clear that Galy did buy in as the season progressed). Conversely, Danault might have other players in mind...it's hard to know just what to make of this other than that team cohesion was an issue.

 

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-canadiens-desperately-need-a-director-of-hockey-operations

 

Good suggestion here, too, for a separate Director of Hockey Ops to provide another set of eyes on Bergevin's follies.

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I don't think putting more people in management is the solution. 

 

If you don't trust Bergevin, you can Bergevin, and put someone new in charge. 

 

The titles don't matter, the power matters.  Bergevin has the power right now of a GM and Vice President of Hockey Ops. 

 

Bringing in someone above him, is effectively saying we don't trust you, and now you are subservient to the new guy.  I dont' see Molson doing that.  if he truly didn't trust Bergevin, Bergevin wouldn't be sticking around right now. 

 

The solution is not keeping him in a diminished role, its kicking him out the door. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, you can read Danault's and Gallagher's comments as targeting the *start* of the season specifically. (I think it's clear that Galy did buy in as the season progressed). Conversely, Danault might have other players in mind...it's hard to know just what to make of this other than that team cohesion was an issue.

 

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-canadiens-desperately-need-a-director-of-hockey-operations

 

Good suggestion here, too, for a separate Director of Hockey Ops to provide another set of eyes on Bergevin's follies.

That tells that the room is the problem after all. But what guys are they??? I don't see Price or Weber being those guys since CL was coaching them on team Canada. I think one guy to point the finger at is Pacioretty. 

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Another interesting quote came from Danault, who said that everyone needs to buy into Julien's system from the start of the season next year. This means that he doesn't believe everyone did so this year. Gallagher's remarks were subtler but he too suggested a team that was not 'on the same page' from the get-go. 

 

I'd speculate that Galchenyuk is a big part of what they're talking about, but it doesn't bode well for CJ that even as a brand-new coach he had trouble getting buy-in from a significant chunk of the team.

I didn’t read or hear the comments but Julien explained early on last season that he was teaching new systems and that it would take time for these systems to become second nature to the players. 

 

I would personally speculate that “buying in” is nothing more than understanding and applying them. I don’t think it was any player purposefully deciding not to buy into a system. It’s more likely that some players took longer than expected to adjust. I personally put the blame on Julien in such a scenario, rather than anyone else.

 

- - - 

 

As for Price checking out, it certainly did seem that way. I was very displeased with Price’s as well as Drouin’s performance this year. We can make jokes all we want about this attitude quote, but I specifically did not like Drouin’s demeanour. I agree that Price looked mentally checked out and it’s specifically part of the reason I felt as though the team needed a better backup than Montoya. Price had no one to motivate him to continuously perform at a high standard. 

 

With all that being said, this is unacceptable and it’s not an appropriate excuse to state that Price mentally checked out because the team was bad and that our GM couldn’t put together a team. Although the skill level of the team showed on paper, his performance was a substantial part of the reason why our record was not only bad, but as bad as it was. We can complain all we want, but he’s not allowed to behave that way. 

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1 hour ago, Metallica said:

That tells that the room is the problem after all. But what guys are they??? I don't see Price or Weber being those guys since CL was coaching them on team Canada. I think one guy to point the finger at is Pacioretty. 

Yes I think Pacioretty? was one, Price? another, McCarron, Drouin...I think Gallagher said 'some' guys came to camp unprepared, not sure who he all means?

All in all seems was a f'in gong show from end of last season till now.

18 times gave up 2 goals in less than 1 minute...has to be a NHL record isn't it? 

 

As Ray Ferraro said, coaches should of known who was mailing in some games and should of stapled their asses to the bench and sent to press box to think about things if that didn't work, whether top player or not.

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Sure is a good thing Bergevin brought in all that "leadership" :rolleyes: GOD, what an idiot.

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It's purely speculation but it feels like the targets are Price, Pacioretty, and Lehkonen. All three had slow starts, Bergevin called out Carey, Max contradicted Bergevin, and Lehkonen was very quiet in his exit interview. 

 

I get the feeling 2/3 won't be Habs by the fall.

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12 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

It's purely speculation but it feels like the targets are Price, Pacioretty, and Lehkonen. All three had slow starts, Bergevin called out Carey, Max contradicted Bergevin, and Lehkonen was very quiet in his exit interview. 

 

I get the feeling 2/3 won't be Habs by the fall.

It isnt going out on a limb saying Pacioretty is going to be traded.

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On 4/11/2018 at 9:39 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I thought it was interesting that Marky Marc explicitly stated that Price's attitude was part of the problem. This suggests that our speculation was right that Price realized early that the team was garbage and checked out mentally.

 

That's what Bergevin is blaming: a team of players who lost any belief in their team. Of course the real issue is why proven, dedicated players like Price lost that belief in the first place, and the answer is that their GM is a bungling bozo who made all the wrong moves. But as usual, Bergevin always blames the players. 

 

I'd gain a whole lot of respect for Carey if he'd come out in the press guns blazing, stating explicitly that Bergevin has failed to put together a competitive team.  Maybe, just maybe, our befuddled owner would finally clue in then.

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21 hours ago, DON said:

As Ray Ferraro said, coaches should of known who was mailing in some games and should of stapled their asses to the bench and sent to press box to think about things if that didn't work, whether top player or not.

 

This doesn't happen nearly enough in this organization; there are players like Max who can float for two weeks straight and not get bounced down to a lower line, but heaven help a younger player like Galchenyuk if he has a bad game.  You have a protected class and a group of 'whipping boys'...and it's wrong.

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On 4/11/2018 at 0:07 PM, Commandant said:

I don't think putting more people in management is the solution. 

 

If you don't trust Bergevin, you can Bergevin, and put someone new in charge. 

 

The titles don't matter, the power matters.  Bergevin has the power right now of a GM and Vice President of Hockey Ops. 

 

Bringing in someone above him, is effectively saying we don't trust you, and now you are subservient to the new guy.  I dont' see Molson doing that.  if he truly didn't trust Bergevin, Bergevin wouldn't be sticking around right now. 

 

The solution is not keeping him in a diminished role, its kicking him out the door. 

 

Damn right the solution is kicking him out the door!!!

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32 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

 

I'd gain a whole lot of respect for Carey if he'd come out in the press guns blazing, stating explicitly that Bergevin has failed to put together a competitive team.  Maybe, just maybe, our befuddled owner would finally clue in then.

 

Price would never do that. That would be a radical violation of the old boy hockey "code." At most I could see Price quietly demanding a trade - and indeed, this would not shock  me, if the Habs turn out to be a POS team again next year with no obvious prospects for improvement.  (Then again, if his family is happy in Montreal, that might override other considerations; in which case we'd be a looking at Price being content to whittle away the back-nine of his career much as Luongo is, a good goalie on a sh*t franchise).

 

29 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

 

This doesn't happen nearly enough in this organization; there are players like Max who can float for two weeks straight and not get bounced down to a lower line, but heaven help a younger player like Galchenyuk if he has a bad game.  You have a protected class and a group of 'whipping boys'...and it's wrong.

 

I tend to agree, but I will say that this is a common dynamic on most NHL teams. Young players are -  perversely - held to a more demanding standard than veterans. I think there are two reasons for this. One is that you're trying to teach young players how to be the best they can be. But a 30-year-old vet is what he is; if a guy isn't backchecking or putting in a consistent effort by that stage of his career, it ain't happening. The other is that coaches need veterans to support their agenda. If the veterans align against you, you're not long for the unemployment line. So coaches tend to defer to vets somewhat. 

 

So it's not just the Habs, it's a wider NHL dynamic.

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Price would never do that. That would be a radical violation of the old boy hockey "code." At most I could see Price quietly demanding a trade - and indeed, this would not shock  me, if the Habs turn out to be a POS team again next year with no obvious prospects for improvement.  (Then again, if his family is happy in Montreal, that might override other considerations).

 

I know...not everyone has St. Patricks's fire in them to rage against the machine and let it show, to hell with 'the code'.  It just seems like it would take something truly 'nuclear option' to make Molson wake up...wishful thinking on my part.

 

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I tend to agree, but I will say that this is a common dynamic on most NHL teams. Young players are -  perversely - held to a more demanding standard than veterans. I think there are two reasons for this. One is that you're trying to teach young players how to be the best they can be. But a 30-year-old vet is what he is; if a guy isn't backchecking or putting in a consistent effort by that stage of his career, it ain't happening. The other is that coaches need veterans to support their agenda. If the veterans align against you, you're not long for the unemployment line. So coaches tend to defer to vets somewhat. 

 

So it's not just the Habs, it's a wider NHL dynamic.

 

Generally, yes...that's the way it goes.  I have seen some coaches bench a vet who is dogging it: Babcock, Torts, Trotz, and a few others...and by God is it refreshing when you see a coach enforce standards evenly like that.

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Even those guys.

 

It took Babcock 60 + games to replace Leo Komarov with Mitch Marner on the Leafs second line.... 

It took him 60+ games to replace Matt Martin with Kasperi Kapanen, even after Kapanen's playoffs a year ago. 

It took massive injuries for Travis Dermott to get a shot on that garbage defence with Roman Polak. 

 

Madison Bowey gets under 14 minutes a night in Washington. Brooks Orpik plays over 19 minutes

Same with Burakovsky, under 14 minutes... Vrana under 13 minutes.... 
 

 

 

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