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2018 NHL Playoff Thread

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14 hours ago, Commandant said:

They are pretty deep. 

 

We all know what the Karlsson-Marchessault-Smith line did. 

 

David Perron had 66 points

Erik Haula 29 goals and 55 points

James Neal 25 goals

Alex Tuch 37 points

Eakin had 27

 

On D, Colin Miller had 41 points
Nat Schmidt 36

Theodore 29

Engelland 23 points

 

 

They just have a bunch of #2 line capable forwards

and a bunch of 2nd pair capable D

 

And all have speed.

I was going to say the same thing 

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7 hours ago, Habopotamus said:

I was going to say the same thing 

Well they have three more 2nd lines than we do.

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I think the habs had (2) 50 point players. 

 

Future looks bright

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Did he just touch the trophy or are my eyes deceiving me?????

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On 5/19/2018 at 7:34 AM, Commandant said:

 

Whatthe vegas formula debunks is the idea that teams need certain types of players.   That fourth liners and bottom.sixers are different types of players from.first liners.  That you need grinders.

 

No

 

Just stick speed and skill on all four lines.

 

Of.course not every player has the same speed and skill.

 

But you have a choice between a speedy, skilled guy who maybe isnt top 6 but is tearing up.the ahl to put on the third or fourth line.  Or the guy with no hands... but he hits a lot and is gritty?  The traditional fourth liner?  Take the speed and skill.

 

Defence... get your puck movers.. your nate schmidt, shea theodore, etc to compliment the forwards.

 

With vegas being so far under the cap (and using large chunks on jason garrison, mikhail grabovski, david clarkson) i dont think it is telling teams dont spend on top line talent.

 

Absolutely you can spend on your stars.  Just the guys you pay cheap.  They have to be different types of guys.  Cheap 4th line speed and skill (guys everyone else is overlooking.  Its like two years ago the havs couldve taken a chris terry and given him bryan flynn or torrey mitchell's spor for example). You can still spend for your top.six talent and fill the holes.  But get guys with speed who put the pppositions third and fourth line and bottom pair d on their heels and in there zone.

 

Guys like Nigel Dawes shouldnt be shunted to.europe cause they arent tall enough, arent strong enough for the fourth line.

 

Not entirely sure I agree that the Vegas formula

debunks anything whatsoever. For all of what you said, they had Ryan Reaves on the fourth line, who in turn eventually scored the game winner. Reaves was also on Pittsburgh before in order to keep an eye on Crosby.

 

Another theory has constantly been that Price being our X factor doesn’t pay dividends in the playoffs because another goalie can mitigate that advantage in a 7 game series. I give credit to Vegas as a whole, but I’ve been very impressed with Fleury throughout the playoffs and believe that he’s a major reason why they find themselves in the final.

 

If anything this proves that the Habs can compete in the playoffs and that Price can be an important factor, he just needs to actually play to that level on a consistent basis. Fleury has played that way throughout the first three series’. I think the Vegas success has debunked the goaltending theory come playoff time. 

 

Or as I said, their success has debunked nothing at all.

 

In any case, they haven’t won anything yet and if Tampa Bay do pull through, I do view them as an underdog heading into the final.

 

 

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Ryan Reaves has played in 6 out of Vegas' 15 playoff games.  Less than half.  For the majority of the time they have speed in that fourth line spot. 

 

He got in due to injuries and he scored a goal. 

 

Doesn't change the fact that when Healthy, Vegas is rolling four lines of speed.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Ryan Reaves has played in 6 out of Vegas' 15 playoff games.  Less than half.  For the majority of the time they have speed in that fourth line spot. 

 

He got in due to injuries and he scored a goal. 

 

Doesn't change the fact that when Healthy, Vegas is rolling four lines of speed.

 

 

I understood that that would be the response but it doesn’t change the fact that Vegas also had success when a grinder was on the fourth line, nor that the grinder himself has helped out the team.

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The fact that he's played 27 hockey games with 3 points tells me he's not an integral part to their success.

 

Also i wonder, what is the team's record with him... vs without him. 

 

Just cause you win a few games with him in the lineup doesn't mean they aren't a better team without him.  I'd be shocked if one fourth line player suddenly made them lose every game.  But they were a first place squad before they traded for him, and remained a top squad for most of their playoff games that he didn't play. 

 

 

Note

 

They are 5-1 with him in the playoffs..... 7-2 without him... so i don't think that proves much

 

Regular season they were.... 10-8-3 with him in the lineup....  41-16-4 with him out of the lineup.  That's pretty striking. 

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52 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 

Not entirely sure I agree that the Vegas formula Agree

debunks anything whatsoever.Agree

If anything this proves that the Habs can compete in the playoffs Agree

Or as I said, their success has debunked nothing at all. Agree

 

 

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 

 

Another theory has constantly been that Price being our X factor doesn’t pay dividends in the playoffs because another goalie can mitigate that advantage in a 7 game series. I give credit to Vegas as a whole, but I’ve been very impressed with Fleury throughout the playoffs and believe that he’s a major reason why they find themselves in the final.

 

 

 

If by this you mean that Fleury's playoff supports the 'Price as X-factor' theory, then I disagree. What Fleury proves is that you don't have to be Carey Price to get hot and have a dominant playoff. Had Price run into Fleury, he would have lost, because our team is worse overall than Vegas's and Fleury would have neutralized any goaltending advantage we have.

 

Over four series, the Habs are bound to run into a hot goalie who neutralizes the 'Price advantage.' This is why having Price in no way relieves the Habs of the requirement to build a seriously strong club. Holtby, Hellebuck, Fleury - any one of those guys would have shut us down over a full series. At some point your TEAM actually has to outplay another team. Price won't do it.

 

I find it ridiculous that an expansion team is in the Finals, and the bottom line is the NHL expansion rules were too generous. A team like the Habs would be better off disbanding, then re-forming as an expansion team, than they would be in trying to build a contender from their current position. That doesn't make sense. What you want is a middle ground, where expansion teams are 'bubble' teams rather than league powers.

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24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

If by this you mean that Fleury's playoff supports the 'Price as X-factor' theory, then I disagree. What Fleury proves is that you don't have to be Carey Price to get hot and have a dominant playoff. Had Price run into Fleury, he would have lost, because our team is worse overall than Vegas's and Fleury would have neutralized any goaltending advantage we have.

 

Over four series, the Habs are bound to run into a hot goalie who neutralizes the 'Price advantage.' This is why having Price in no way relieves the Habs of the requirement to build a seriously strong club. Holtby, Hellebuck, Fleury - any one of those guys would have shut us down over a full series. At some point your TEAM actually has to outplay another team. Price won't do it.

 

I find it ridiculous that an expansion team is in the Finals, and the bottom line is the NHL expansion rules were too generous. A team like the Habs would be better off disbanding, then re-forming as an expansion team, than they would be in trying to build a contender from their current position. That doesn't make sense. What you want is a middle ground, where expansion teams are 'bubble' teams rather than league powers.

 

Proof of this was New York v Montreal. Lundqvist stopped one less goal, and both goalies had exceptional save percentages.

 

I don't agree that the rules were too generous. The two biggest factors were the salary cap and no movement clauses. No movement clauses meant a lot of teams couldn't just leave a high priced veteran available while protecting a young player on their second contract. Prior to the expansion draft, you had fans of 30 teams frothing at the mouth because here's Vegas with 100% cap space ready to take your cap dumps. Which Vegas did. Mikhail Grabovski, David Clarkson, Marcus Krueger, Marc-Andre Fleury, Jason Garrison, Rielly Smith, all cap dumps. Even Emelin was technically a cap dump, though I guess the club treated him more like an unfortunate loss. 

 

There were situations where teams had to make difficult choices. Minnesota had too many forwards to protect to protect four defencemen, but they didn't want to lose one of Spurgeon/Brodin/Dumba. So they negotiated with Vegas that they could take Haula and they would trade Tuch to them in order to keep Dumba. Dumba had a fantastic season this year, I think he was a 50 point defenceman. If the trade is Haula/Tuch for Dumba, I think a lot would take Dumba as he's developing into a first pair defenceman. 

 

I think I outlined Florida here already, but if they went 1/3/7 they could have protected Marchessault and Rielly no problem. Instead they protected four defencemen and considered Petrovic more important than Marchesseault, and traded Smith as a cap dump for a fourth round pick. Fourth round! That was the first trade made to Vegas.

 

My opinion of the Knights when they were first organized is I felt they were a playoff team, didn't know how good of one, but I wasn't sure about their future. Who knows how long they got with some of their vets like Fleury, Neal, and Perron. I don't really care for the Tatar trade either as they gave up way too much for the guy. But they also had a very good 2017 draft, and some of the young guys they selected in the expansion are going to be stars for them in Theodore, Tuch, Haula, and Karlsson. But even if you allow teams to take one more player, I still think they build a playoff team. The biggest moves for the organization weren't due to who teams could protect, but who teams were forced to protect via NMC and who they wanted to get rid of for salary cap reasons.

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Thought Jets and Caps would be in finale. Could be 0-2 on that prophesy. 

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25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I feel like this ties in with the point I was trying to make about goaltending. Fleury has been the best goalie these playoffs and Vegas finds themselves where they are. Although with substantial help from Murray, he’s also made the final 3 years in a row.

 

Obviously, solid goaltending can be a great recipe for success during the playoffs.

 

I’m not sure I qualify Fleury’s playoff season as a goalie getting hot. I think he’s done well in quite a few playoffs now. Although he did have struggles early in his career as well.

 

Marc Andre Fleury has a career regular season save percentage of .913.

 

Fleury’s career playoff  save percentage has remained .913.

 

Carey Price has had a career regular season save percentage of .918.

 

During the playoffs, Price’s numbers have dropped to .914 over his career.

 

As a result, Price has outperformed Fleury in the playoffs when it comes to save percentage but don’t we expect Price to be more than .01 better than Fleury? Fleury has also maintained his level whereas Price seems to drop a little bit once the playoffs start. 

 

The Price “x-factor” comes into play only if he actually is the best goalie in the world. 

 

There are not many of the better goaltenders in the league who’s save percentage drop in the playoffs. 

 

Perhaps I am putting too much weight into Price’s early career struggles in the playoffs but I believe that should Price actually play up

to his standard, our team should have a huge advantage, rather than assume “any goaltender can get hot and match his level”.

 

The Rangers series may be an example that Price can play well and the Habs can still lose, but that was also against another generational goalie in Lundqvist. I’d be more inclined to state that more often than not, when Price does get matched in a series, it’s because he has not played up to his standard, not because the other goalie has gotten so hot to match Price’s level.

 

With that being said, the gap is closing and especially after this season, it’s not entirely clear how much better Price actually is than the Holtbys and Fleurys of the league. 

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20 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Perhaps I am putting too much weight into Price’s early career struggles in the playoffs but I believe that should Price actually play up

to his standard, our team should have a huge advantage, rather than assume “any goaltender can get hot and match his level”.

 

The Rangers series may be an example that Price can play well and the Habs can still lose, but that was also against another generational goalie in Lundqvist. I’d be more inclined to state that more often than not, when Price does get matched in a series, it’s because he has not played up to his standard, not because the other goalie has gotten so hot to match Price’s level. 

 

For the past five seasons, goalies who have played at least 20 playoff games, Price is 9th in save percentage (0.922) behind Anderson, Fleury, Holtby, Bishop, Jones, Murray, Lundqvist, and tied with  Allen. 4th place (Bishop) and 9th place (Price and Allen) are separated by .004. 

 

I'd say Price played exactly up to his standard against New York. Can anyone name a plethora of bad goals? The difference was the pop gun offence. Only Radulov and Lehkonen could score more than one goal. Pacioretty had one assist in 6 games. Torrey Mitchell and Alex Emelin had more goals than Pacioretty, Danault, Galchenyuk, and Shaw.

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The Habs roster has to stop turning other team's goalies into .950 goalies. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

The Habs roster has to stop turning other team's goalies into .950 goalies. 

That’s the thing. I think people forget that your team having a terrible offence means naturally the other team is likely to put up solid gold attending stats.

 

We’re talking about the goalies as if it’s a complete individual stat. No doubt the goalie plays a huge part, but your own teams defence, and the opposing teams ability to score plays a massive amount into it.

 

lets stop acting like it’s all in the goalies hands, and recognize that it takes the full team. We don’t have the full team.

 

edit: Goaltending not gold attending Hahahah.

 

Hilarious autocorrect

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9 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

That’s the thing. I think people forget that your team having a terrible offence means naturally the other team is likely to put up solid gold attending stats.

 

We’re talking about the goalies as if it’s a complete individual stat. No doubt the goalie plays a huge part, but your own teams defence, and the opposing teams ability to score plays a massive amount into it.

 

lets stop acting like it’s all in the goalies hands, and recognize that it takes the full team. We don’t have the full team.

 

The 14-15 series with Ottawa was a great example. The team was absolutely humiliating the Hamburgler. Ottawa finally switches him for Anderson, he shuts the Habs out 1-0, Sens win 5-1 the next game with Anderson making 45 stops, and in game six Gallagher slips one by and the team falls apart with Price playing incredible for a 43 save shutout while Anderson only faces 19 shots for a 2-0 win. The offence completely dried up against Anderson and the series almost swung Ottawa's way.

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Capitals vs Golden Knights is the Stanley Cup final, as predicted by literally nobody at the start of the season. 

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11 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

Capitals vs Golden Knights is the Stanley Cup final, as predicted by literally nobody at the start of the season. 

 

:lol:

 

Happy WASH won. Pretty much the first time since the first round that the team I wanted to win, actually did. :thumbs_up:

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Once again we remove the anchor of another team and they make the Cup final. We're so charitable.

 

;)

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

:lol:

 

Happy WASH won. Pretty much the first time since the first round that the team I wanted to win, actually did. :thumbs_up:

 

And being that even I can't care about the difference in getting the 61st or 62nd OA pick* GO CAPS!

 

*I will care if the 61st OA pick ends up being so much better than the 62nd OA pick. I will care an unhealthy amount. 

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6 hours ago, Trizzak said:

 

And being that even I can't care about the difference in getting the 61st or 62nd OA pick* GO CAPS!

 

*I will care if the 61st OA pick ends up being so much better than the 62nd OA pick. I will care an unhealthy amount. 

Totally agree!! Go Ovi!

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Glad that Washington won and that Ovechkin finally gets a chance to play for the cup.

 

I am even more happy that Tampa lost

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10 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Once again we remove the anchor of another team and they make the Cup final. We're so charitable.

 

;)

 

:lol:

 

SHOCKING that Washington managed to reach the Finals despite the crippling loss of Karl Alzner. That shows the true depth of that organization!

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