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JGC21

A Mulligan! The One Trade You Would Undo

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I hated the Gomez trade from day 1. 

 

At the time... at best... he was the 12th best centre in the conference... but was being paid the 2nd most. 

 

I always thought the contract was an albatross, and McDonagh was my second favorite prospect at the time. I thought he and Subban would be a great pair. 

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23 hours ago, Commandant said:

I hated the Gomez trade from day 1. 

 

At the time... at best... he was the 12th best centre in the conference... but was being paid the 2nd most. 

 

I always thought the contract was an albatross, and McDonagh was my second favorite prospect at the time. I thought he and Subban would be a great pair. 

 

Get ready for Gomez Part Deux when MB trades for Toews.

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I think I would undo the Claude Lemieux for Sylvain Turgeon trade.  That way we could have Claude/Jocelyn playing together on the Habs.

 

Then, we could trade Roy and Robinson to Pitts for Mario and ice: Lemieux - Lemieux - Lemieux.  Thinking of poor Bob Cole on that play-by-play call...

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30 minutes ago, JGC21 said:

 

Get ready for Gomez Part Deux when MB trades for Toews.

 I dont see him trading for Toews.

 

I do see him trading for RoR

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9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 I dont see him trading for Toews.

 

I do see him trading for RoR

 

As all the analysts have commented, do we have the assets to make that trade?

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9 minutes ago, JGC21 said:

 

As all the analysts have commented, do we have the assets to make that trade?

 

To trade for a 60 point centre who is overpaid for a long time ans wants out of buffalo?

 

If we dont have the assets for this, we are in bigger trouble than i thought

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14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

To trade for a 60 point centre who is overpaid for a long time ans wants out of buffalo?

 

If we dont have the assets for this, we are in bigger trouble than i thought

 

He puts up comparable points to guys in his price range like Johansen, Stastny, Couture, Duchene, Monahan, and he did it while playing for the Buffalo Sabres. Heck, he's been putting up points on bad teams for years. He may not have an ideal contract, but he certainly doesn't seem overpaid.

 

I'm not turning my nose up at a 60 point centremen being that the Habs have only had 3 in the past decade. 

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8 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

 

He puts up comparable points to guys in his price range like Johansen, Stastny, Couture, Duchene, Monahan, and he did it while playing for the Buffalo Sabres. Heck, he's been putting up points on bad teams for years. He may not have an ideal contract, but he certainly doesn't seem overpaid.

 

I'm not turning my nose up at a 60 point centremen being that the Habs have only had 3 in the past decade. 

Agree, he is just 27 and would look darn good in a Habs jersey, even at $7.5m/yr (heck I think many wanted to pay that for Radulov).

And who knows how he would play once on a 1/2 decent team?

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18 hours ago, Trizzak said:

 

He puts up comparable points to guys in his price range like Johansen, Stastny, Couture, Duchene, Monahan, and he did it while playing for the Buffalo Sabres. Heck, he's been putting up points on bad teams for years. He may not have an ideal contract, but he certainly doesn't seem overpaid.

 

I'm not turning my nose up at a 60 point centremen being that the Habs have only had 3 in the past decade. 

 

O'Reilly.... Cap Hit 7.5 Million.... career high in points 64

Johansen... cap hit 8.0 million.... career high 71  (500,000 more, but career high is over 70 points)

Stastny.... cap hit 7.0 million... career high 79  (less money, higher career best season)

Couture... cap hit 6.0 million... career high 67 (considerably less money 1.5 million, slight bit more points on career high)

Duchene... cap hit 6.0 million... career high 70

Monahan... cap hit 6.375 million... career high 64 points (same points, less money, younger).

 

He's paid more than all those guys (Except 1), and scores less than all those guys too (except 1 he tied).   Also as for the buffalo comment, he also played on Colorado.... The same team where Duchene and Stastny had their career high.  Monahan was on a bad team this year too.  Johansen's career high was a bad columbus team..  But sure... Buffalo, where he's the number two and gets the easier matchups cause Eichel is their clear number 1.

 

Would i turn up my nose at O'Reilly.... nope... but the deal better be good, cause he's not a franchise centre. He would be a strong #2, but he's not ideal as a top line centre.  And he's paid a lot of money for a number 2. 

 

 

 

Its the same issue I had with Gomez.  This is your number 1 centre?  What team is it better than?

 

In the division...
Boston, Tampa, Toronto, Florida, Buffalo... all have clear better #1 Cs. .. not even a debate.

Detroit... Larkin is emerging as a true #1, is a lot younger and had 63 points right now... O'Reilly might be better right here, right now... how much longer?
Ottawa... Duchene was ahead of O'Reilly on the Colorado depth charts...

 

In the conference
Washington, Pittsburgh, Islanders, Philadelphia are clear better. If tavares stays with Isles its no contest.  Barzal i would take over O'Reilly even if Tavares leaves. 
Devils have Hischier, he had 52 points as a rookie, O'Rielly is better now... how long. 
Columbus has Dubois... O'reilly better now... but Dubois had a nice 19 year old season... how long.
Rangers, Zibanejad... okay O'Reilly is better... Have some prospects but I'm still going to give edge to O'Reilly

Carolina.... okay O'Reilly is better. Have some prospects but I'm still going to give edge to O'Reilly

So out of 7 teams in the division.... he is clearly behind 6, and the 7th is a young kid who is gaining fast on him. 
Out of the 8 teams in the other dvision.... he is behind 3,.... 2 have teenagers who had strong rookie years.... and 2 he's ahead of. 

 



This is my issue with the Gomez trade all over again.  You are giving up assets, and paying a big contract, for a #1 C who is like 12th best in the conference as #1 cs go... and is behind a number of #2 Cs like Malkin, Barzal, Kuznetsov, Kadri, Trocheck etc... too. 

 

I'd do it, but only if its cheap.  If we have to give up top assets, I wouldn't do it.

 

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8 minutes ago, JGC21 said:

 

If the deal is what the Kings gave up for Mike Richards... no thanks... Brayden Schenn was one of the top prospects in the world at the time, and everyone knew Wayne Simmonds would be a very good second liner... and they got a second rounder. 

An equivalent trade from the Habs today.... 3rd overall pick... Victor Mete (an emerging young player)... and a 2nd rounder. 

Would I give that for O'Reilly? 

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Ryan O'Reilly is a bad idea. He's a repeat of Plekanec and I got doubts of him being a team guy. Add to the fact it would be an in division trade? He would be treated like a 1c like when Plekanec was put with Pacioretty. At a premium price.

 

He doesn't put us over the top. He just puts us... back in the middle.

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Posted (edited)

I would undo MB as a Mulligan

(edit) Player wise St Pat from years ago and if there is a statute of limitation then Subban 

Edited by ehjay

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On 2018-05-23 at 9:34 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Come on. The Roy trade is one of the worst trades in the history of the NHL and *the* worst in Habs history. That one by a mile.

 

Chelios for Savard is #2 on my list.

 

The Gomez deal might be #3. 

 

Only then does the Subban deal enter into my calculations. 

 

 

I completely agree with Cuke. The King Patrick trade was one of the worst deals in NHL history! The Subban for Weber deal is not good, but it's not a disaster like when they traded Roy!

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13 hours ago, Habsfan said:

I completely agree with Cuke. The King Patrick trade was one of the worst deals in NHL history! The Subban for Weber deal is not good, but it's not a disaster like when they traded Roy!

No joke.  Houle/Corey/Tremblay owe us about a decade of good hockey.

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Recchi for Leclair, Desjardins and Dionne.

I think this trade was more horrible qualitywise than the Roy trade.

Its just that for the habs to trade Roy is only comparable with the Oilers trading Gretzky.

You are just not supposed to trade a legend.

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24 minutes ago, Dalhabs said:

Recchi for Leclair, Desjardins and Dionne.

I think this trade was more horrible qualitywise than the Roy trade.

Its just that for the habs to trade Roy is only comparable with the Oilers trading Gretzky.

You are just not supposed to trade a legend.

 

Well, the Recchi trade was bad, but I disagree that it was worse than the Roy trade. In the first place we got back the best player *at the time.* And Recchi was a legit top'line player and remained so in his tenure with us. So we heavily overpaid but at least got back a major core player. By contrast, the Roy trade saw us ship out one a superstar goalie in his prime, plus a quality third-liner, for a much inferior goalie, one secondary FW, and a spare part. That's way worse, all-time bad. 

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16 hours ago, Habsfan said:

I completely agree with Cuke. The King Patrick trade was one of the worst deals in NHL history! The Subban for Weber deal is not good, but it's not a disaster like when they traded Roy!

I say Subban more over Gomez or Savard because I don't see McDo as a better player then Subban (maybe stats or whatever might say so, but not in my book) and '93 cup forgave A LOT for me when it comes to Chelios. 

St Pat is still a sore spot and Subban just freshens the cut, as in my heart of fan, it slices exactly at the same exact location. With one exception: feels a little deeper this time yet it isn't; still through and through. :'(  

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10 minutes ago, ehjay said:

I say Subban more over Gomez or Savard because I don't see McDo as a better player then Subban (maybe stats or whatever might say so, but not in my book) and '93 cup forgave A LOT for me when it comes to Chelios. 

St Pat is still a sore spot and Subban just freshens the cut, as in my heart of fan, it slices exactly at the same exact location. With one exception: feels a little deeper this time yet it isn't; still through and through. :'(  

 

There is ONE specific sense in which the Subban trade is worse than the Roy trade: the Roy deal was a response to an actual problem, i.e., Roy's declaration to Corey that he wanted out, and the whole circus around that. Granted, the problem would never have happened if Blueberry hadn't been an arsehole, but there's no getting around that that entire debacle demanded action. Even the fantasy that the relevant parties could have kissed and made up is probably just that, a fantasy, because Roy was not sticking around for the long term with those dummies in charge. The Subban deal, by contrast, was not about anything except the egos of a past-his-due-date coach and a GM of almost ineffable stupidity and arrogance. It solved no problem of any kind and was utterly and completely unnecessary.

 

As a pure hockey trade, though, the Subban deal is nowhere near the disaster the Roy deal was, because we got a fine #1 defenceman back. Sure, he's older, slower, and has a less complete game, but he's still damned good. We traded Roy for middling-to-terrible assets. Which is far worse.

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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

There is ONE specific sense in which the Subban trade is worse than the Roy trade: the Roy deal was a response to an actual problem, i.e., Roy's declaration to Corey that he wanted out, and the whole circus around that. Granted, the problem would never have happened if Blueberry hadn't been an arsehole, but there's no getting around that that entire debacle demanded action. Even the fantasy that the relevant parties could have kissed and made up is probably just that, a fantasy, because Roy was not sticking around for the long term with those dummies in charge. The Subban deal, by contrast, was not about anything except the egos of a past-his-due-date coach and a GM of almost ineffable stupidity and arrogance. It solved no problem of any kind and was utterly and completely unnecessary.

 

As a pure hockey trade, though, the Subban deal is nowhere near the disaster the Roy deal was, because we got a fine #1 defenceman back. Sure, he's older, slower, and has a less complete game, but he's still damned good. We traded Roy for middling-to-terrible assets. Which is far worse.

I agree as I said: in my heart of fan, it slices exactly in the same location. It misleadingly feels deeper.  

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MB for Gauthier.

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Its really horrible that we habsfans have so many bad trades to chose from. 😢

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6 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

Its really horrible that we habsfans have so many bad trades to chose from. 😢

 

I do continue to believe that the Habs have a much higher quotient of bad major trades than most teams. MB alone inflates our average considerably

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The trades that have occurred in the last 3 offseasons...all of them. 

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