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alfredoh2009

The need for an attitude change

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This article from Arpun Basu is very good, it summarizes many of the character and attitude problems the CH had in 2017-2017 (I'll try to summarize for those not able to read it)

https://theathletic.com/399175/2018/06/19/an-annotated-history-of-the-canadiens-attitude-problem/

 

How much of this is a real problem?

And how can it be changed this off season?

 

 

   

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

This article from Arpun Basu is very good, it summarizes many of the character and attitude problems the CH had in 2017-2017 (I'll try to summarize for those not able to read it)

https://theathletic.com/399175/2018/06/19/an-annotated-history-of-the-canadiens-attitude-problem/

 

How much of this is a real problem?

And how can it be changed this off season?

 

 

   

And how much of it is actually that our management team needs an attitude change ?

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20 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

And how much of it is actually that out management team needs an attitude change ?

And how much do fans need an attitude change ? :rolleyes:

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50 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

And how much do fans need an attitude change ? :rolleyes:

No doubt Montreal has a polarizing fan base hahah. However in my opinion, when you finish 4th last, it’s ok to be upset with management as a fan. Especially when character has been a priority since day one, and now suddenly buzz word number two “attitude” which is almost a synonym of character, is an issue. 

 

Youd think players with good character would have a good attitude wouldn’t you? 

 

I dont think attitude is the problem, I just think talent is the problem; we don’t have enough of it. 

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Teams that win almost always have good attitudes. 

 

However, that doesn't mean that good attitude is the cause of the winning. 

 

I'd say Teams with Good attitudes don't always win.... 

 

Its the talent.  Too bad our management is focused on character, attitude, and intangibles. 

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I believe habs management thinks they are smarter than everyone else. They will not be swayed on anything

 

There talent level has gotten worse over the years 

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53 minutes ago, Chris said:

I believe habs management thinks they are smarter than everyone else. They will not be swayed on anything

 

There talent level has gotten worse over the years 

Bergevin has a gigantic ego. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Teams that win almost always have good attitudes. 

 

However, that doesn't mean that good attitude is the cause of the winning. 

 

I'd say Teams with Good attitudes don't always win.... 

 

Its the talent.  Too bad our management is focused on character, attitude, and intangibles. 

 

Yes, it's GMing by Don Cherry.

 

The Subban case also suggests that even in terms of 'attitude,' etc., they are prioritizing the wrongs things - confusing 'attitudes that rub us the wrong way personally' with 'attitudes that are incompatible with on-ice success.'

 

We're never winning anything with this ding-a-ling in charge.

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Character....attitude...spare me the BS.  Without a high level of talent, character and attitude aren't worth "two drops of monkey piss".  I'd rather have to bring in a Phil Jackson level psychologist of a coach to wrangle a team overrun with highly talented jerks, than to run a character/attitude laden roster rife with plugs out there to lose damn near every night.

 

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The attitude change  needs to happen at the management level and the media level.

 

The management attitude needs to change with respect to young players.  All around the league teams are going with younger, faster and more skilled players. As well as giving them more responsibility and more leeway in the things they do and how they represent themselves.   That is not at all acceptable here, where they just want wallflowers and  yes men who toe the company line.

 

As well the media needs an attitude adjustment with respect to the French issue, and the negative spotlight they always seem to project when things go sour or even when they are good.

It is absolutely idiotic in this day and age to pick the best available bilingual person for management jobs, which ensures that the best people available will most likely never be hired.  It's insane.  No successful business would run this way.  

 

I used to be a more frequent contributor to this site, and huge supporter of this team but have severely lost interest in this team over the last 8 to 10 years.

I thought for a while is was natural as I developed my career and had a family, yet I started to watch more Football and Baseball

 

 But it's actually the horrible way the organisation is run, and realization that unless there is a drastic change in the way they run their operations and treat their players that they will never, ever win another Stanley Cup. They'll just be mediocre. They've been mediocre for 25 years now and it's not changing anytime soon.

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32 minutes ago, kaos said:

As well the media needs an attitude adjustment with respect to the French issue, and the negative spotlight they always seem to project when things go sour or even when they are good.

It is absolutely idiotic in this day and age to pick the best available bilingual person for management jobs, which ensures that the best people available will most likely never be hired.  It's insane.  No successful business would run this way.  

 

Thank you for saying in a very polite way, what many fans I know want to say.

There is no incentive for them to change either as long as the money keeps flowing in. Also, imagine if Winnipeg  had to have 4-5  local boys on the team to satisfy the media - they would not challenging for the cup in 2018 that's for sure. Ok now let me have it.😲

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5 minutes ago, Pepsi said:

Thank you for saying in a very polite way, what many fans I know want to say.

There is no incentive for them to change either as long as the money keeps flowing in. Also, imagine if Winnipeg  had to have 4-5  local boys on the team to satisfy the media - they would not challenging for the cup in 2018 that's for sure. Ok now let me have it.😲

 

Nothing to 'let you have'...I believe most of the regulars on the site would agree with your post, and with kaos's wistful post. kaos's decision to tune out is actually a sensible response. If your team isn't at least serious about winning, why shpuld fans be serious about the team?

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I personally think that maybe the players don't trust in Bergevin. They see the way he throws them under the bus, maybe they just don't want to respond to him anymore.

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3 hours ago, sbhatt said:

Character....attitude...spare me the BS.  Without a high level of talent, character and attitude aren't worth "two drops of monkey piss".  I'd rather have to bring in a Phil Jackson level psychologist of a coach to wrangle a team overrun with highly talented jerks, than to run a character/attitude laden roster rife with plugs out there to lose damn near every night.

 

Yeah  no shit.  We all know who had the worst locker room problems and bad attitudes :  L.A. Lakers led by Kobe ####ing Bryant, the man with a shitload of off-the-court problems.  He still was a MVP throughout his career.  At one point, when you end up drafting or hiring players like that,  then you gotta think about hiring the best coaches and supporting staff to work with them instead of running them out of town at their lowest value.

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Ok, as promised, here is a summary of the article. First some quotes:

"I’ve struggled with this story, I’ll admit. It’s something I’ve worked on since the end of the Canadiens season, off and on, because I feel it’s important, if for no other reason than the general manager apparently feels it is of the utmost importance." Arpon Basu                                
"So, in an effort to figure out what he was talking about, I went through every story I wrote this season, in excess of 200 of them, to find signs I might have missed. And, in Bergevin’s defence, they are there." Arpon Basu                                
"[…]I think that attitude problem had a lot to do with the players realizing over the course of the season that the Canadiens were not a very good team. Which, ultimately, falls on Bergevin." Arpon Basu                                
"[…]  if Bergevin truly wants to fix the attitude problem on the Canadiens he will need to make it so his roster has no holes, or at least not as many of them." Arpon Basu                      

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And some of the highlights of date/events refered to:

September/17
* Red-White training camp scrimmage
   => Julien observes that Canadiens roster is inadequate.
September/21
* training camp
   => Danault mentions Lack of work ethic

October/8
* 2-0 loss to NYR after outshooting them 34-25    
   => Gallagher mentions that team seems satisfied with easy play, should strive for more
October/14-17
* Series of losses
   => Price takes blame, admits that he has to play better
October/19
* Off day in Anaheim
   => Pacioretty upset with his play (before going into 10 game streak). Says he can't tell others to do better while he is underperforming.
October/20
* 6-2 loss in Anaheim, Price breaks his stick on goal post
   => Price acknowledges being frustrated   
   => Gallagher hopes team will "start looking at ourselves in the mirror" to stop being outworked by opposition
October/25
* Media address after practice, 2-6-1 record; before winning 5 of the next 7
   => “The answer is in that dressing room, […] It’s them. There’s no one coming from the outside to help us. We’re all in this together.” Bergevin

 

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November/11
* 2-1 win against Buffalo thanks to Lindgren
   => Win came despite team play: "not good enough"
November/16
* 5-4 loss to Arizona after Deslaurier's fight turns momentum
   => Embarrassing turn of events, Unacceptable to lack concentration, Disappointing team performance

December/9
* 6-2 loss to Edmonton at home
   => Julien makes reference to lack of talent
December/16
* 3-0 loss to Ottawa in outdoor game. Canadiens record is 14-15-4
   => One of the worst games of the season for Drouin and Galchenyuk
   => Price declines to talk about the game and rambles about playing outdoors
   => Weber's last game

 

 

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January/2
* 4-1 loss at home to San Jose after 2-5-0 road trip. Fan reaction is silent indifference
   => Julien acknowledges uneven commitment from players. Hopes for desire to make difference in games
January/7
* Bergevin's mid-season press conference, 17-20-4 record
   => Bergevin acknowledges that: (a) team lacks talent, (b) Douin's ideal position is wing but for now can help the team best at center, (c) resetting team around Price and Weber instead of rebuild
January/17
* 4-1 loss to Boston on Julien's return since firing    
   => Julien suggests asking players directly if they have given up on season
January/30
* 3-1 loss to St-Louis after all-star break    
   => Pacioretty shows frustration on repetitive questions about inability to win. Admits on the obvious lack of talent when compared to opposing teams.

February/4
* 4-1 win over Ottawa at home.    
   => Plekanec comments on how bad start of season became a mental obstacle to find confidence and edge
February/20
* 3-2 overtime loss in Philadelphia
   => Julien mentions again how the team is "not good enough": (a) because of types of mistakes being made, (b) not executing on "little details" of game, (c) not being consistent, (d) not find the extra level in play the team has

 

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You do know that after every loss, no matter the team sport, coaches and players will be quoted saying the same stuff to explain why they sucked/lost that particular game.

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17 minutes ago, DON said:

You do know that after every loss, no matter the team sport, coaches and players will be quoted saying the same stuff to explain why they sucked/lost that particular game.

I know, but I give Arpon credit for filtering through those superficial/canned comments.

I could not cut and paste for copyright reasons; but he seems to have done his homework to come to his conclusion that the season was lost from training g camp because of a lack of talent and frustration from core players due to that, combined with Price's poor performance and Weber's injury

 

Bergevin has to improve the roster to fix the source of the attitude problem

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22 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

 

Bergevin has to improve the roster to fix the source of the attitude problem

 

Exactly! And so far he has moved in the opposite direction.

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You know what gives people good attitudes for the most part? Winning. If you're losing it's hard to have a good attitude. I just in good conscience can't understand how MB is allowed to touch the CH roster. 

 

I attitude change that's needed that wont come was already mentioned above, there is a great coach available right now, that could never be hired by Montreal because he doesn't speak  french, the media and fans are hamstringing this organization.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Bergevin has to improve the roster to fix the source of the attitude problem

I think all agree on this.

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8 hours ago, DON said:

I think all agree on this.

Actually - I think closer to the truth is that “bergevin has to get fired to fix the attitude problem”

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Exactly! And so far he has moved in the opposite direction.

 

Bergevin has made one trade and cleaned up the developmental coaching staff.  How is that moving in the opposite direction?

 

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