Qualifying Offer Thread

[alfredoh2009]

Ok, I am not going to win this argument

 

and besides, it is the wrong thread

 

====

I am looking forward to another season following my favourite team 

Go Habs Go!

[hab29RETIRED]

5 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am not saying MB is the second coming of Jesus, far from it.

All I am saying is that he is above league average and far better than Gauthier.

 

I don't feel like doing a team-by-team comparison of which of the lower-half of the league underperformed worse than the Canadiens. The Senators come to mind, Dallas hasn't won a cup neither and they come to mind, NY Rangers San Jose, etc.

 

My only point is that MB is not as incompetent as a few make it. He is human, has had more good moves than bad and I hope grows into a very good GM in the future. That's a glimmer of hope I like to have for myself in the coming season. Not only gloom and doom

 

The only worse GM that had a job as long as MB did was Garth Friigin snow.  Name one other agM that has been given more rope to hang himself and lead his team into a bottomless pit the like MB has!??

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The only worse GM that had a job as long as MB did was Garth Friigin snow.  Name one other agM that has been given more rope to hang himself and lead his team into a bottomless pit the like MB has!??

Ok, I'll see if I can do that, but in a different thread

I do not want to hijack this one any more than I already have 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am looking forward to another season following my favourite team 

Go Habs Go!

 

Which is perfectly fine. It's just looking forward to this team is like looking forward to the 98-99 Habs.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Which is perfectly fine. It's just looking forward to this team is like looking forward to the 98-99 Habs.

 

Exactly. Following the team is what fans do. But - this is just my opinion - that shouldn't involve deluding ourselves about the calibre of players or management.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Exactly. Following the team is what fans do. But - this is just my opinion - that shouldn't involve deluding ourselves about the calibre of players or management.

I can’t watch this sorry bunch until MB’s ass is given the boot.  I’ll follow them like I have for 42 years, but i’ll Take a hiatus in watching them the same way I did after the mess created by Tremblay-Corey-Houle (listed in my opinion of the order of culpability - Corey should probably be first, but I hate Tremblay as much as I hate Bergevin-Therrien).

[BCHabnut]

11 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Which is perfectly fine. It's just looking forward to this team is like looking forward to the 98-99 Habs.

If the 98 99 habs had a top 5 goalie, top 5 left winger and top 10 defenseman in the nhl, I would agree. They had nothing. Not saying this version is worth a sh!t, but its better than that one.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

If the 98 99 habs had a top 5 goalie, top 5 left winger and top 10 defenseman in the nhl, I would agree. They had nothing. Not saying this version is worth a sh!t, but its better than that one.

Whose the team top 10 dman??  Certainly isn’t Weber anymore.  There were recently two top 20 lists that he didn’t even crack. We are also going to lose that LW by February at the earliest.

[BCHabnut]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Whose the team top 10 dman??  Certainly isn’t Weber anymore.  There were recently two top 20 lists that he didn’t even crack. We are also going to lose that LW by February at the earliest.

Before his injury last year, pretty much every rank list had him at top 10. He has not played since, so I will stick with that until his play prove's that he is not. 

[Commandant]

Doughty

Karlsson

Hedman

Subban

Josi

Burns
S Jones

Pietrangelo
Klingberg
Ekman-Larsson
Suter

Provorov

Vlasic

There are 13 defencemen.  Tell me what 4 d-men that Weber is better than right now in order to be "top 10"

I'd take every single one of those 13 before Weber. 

There are more as well, (but they are more debateable than this group).

[BCHabnut]

15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Doughty

Karlsson

Hedman

Subban

Josi

Burns
S Jones

Pietrangelo
Klingberg
Ekman-Larsson
Suter

Provorov

Vlasic

There are 13 defencemen.  Tell me what 4 d-men that Weber is better than right now in order to be "top 10"

I'd take every single one of those 13 before Weber. 

There are more as well, (but they are more debateable than this group).

None right now. He's injured. You could argue healthy weber is as good or better than half a dozen of those guys.  I could anyway.  I'm not having this arguement anyway. It's lame. How about I say the 16th best. The point is that this team is better than 98 99. That's all I was saying. 

[Scott462]

Only ones I would take over Weber at this point would be:

 

Doughty

Karlsson

Hedman

Subban(yes he is playing like an absolute beast right now)

Seth Jones(he is just getting to his potential who I feel is going to be one hell of a D man)

 

The rest I look at either equal too or Weber being better.

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This team is significantly better than the nadir of the Houle teams. Those teams had no MaxPac and no Weber. Theodore was no Price, but early in his career he was an elite G, so you could argue that once he showed up that team at least had something akin to a 'Price equivalent.' 

 

Weber is a strong defencemam, but he carries significant question marks now, and I like to say that he is a two-zone rather than a three-zone guy - strong in his own end, deadly in the O-zone, but not especially good at rushing the puck and creating plays. In today's NHL, elite d-men who can bring all three qualities should probably be ranked ahead of him.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

8 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

If the 98 99 habs had a top 5 goalie, top 5 left winger and top 10 defenseman in the nhl, I would agree. They had nothing. Not saying this version is worth a sh!t, but its better than that one.

 

Recchi was a RW but ended up a HOFer. Cancels Pacioretty out. Weber as a 1D and Damphousse as a 1C cancel each other out. Price is the only thing you got. 2018 Habs yet to have someone as good as Koivu was as a young prospect. Drouin is not Koivu. Kotkaniemi who knows. Poehling who knows.

[BCHabnut]

1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Recchi was a RW but ended up a HOFer. Cancels Pacioretty out. Weber as a 1D and Damphousse as a 1C cancel each other out. Price is the only thing you got. 2018 Habs yet to have someone as good as Koivu was as a young prospect. Drouin is not Koivu. Kotkaniemi who knows. Poehling who knows.

So 98 99 were much better? OK.  Good to know. 

[DON]

Hope Kotkaniemi scores more goals than Koivu did (18g/82gms) and manages to stay healthier.

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Recchi was a RW but ended up a HOFer. Cancels Pacioretty out. Weber as a 1D and Damphousse as a 1C cancel each other out. Price is the only thing you got. 2018 Habs yet to have someone as good as Koivu was as a young prospect. Drouin is not Koivu. Kotkaniemi who knows. Poehling who knows.

 

Recchi and Damphousse were both gone at the deadline. 

 

The 99-00 habs had neither of those guys and were the worst. 

[hab29RETIRED]

25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Recchi and Damphousse were both gone at the deadline. 

 

The 99-00 habs had neither of those guys and were the worst. 

And PACs will probably be gone by this year’s deadline.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

2 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

So 98 99 were much better? OK.  Good to know. 

 

Not what I said, but in some ways compared to last season? Yeah they were. Goal differential was smaller and they won more games. They also lost way more games to injury than last years Habs.

 

Things are late 90s bad. That's just reality. Their only hope to win more than 35 games is the best goalie in the world dragging them to win games they don't deserve. This team has no chance at a Cup and a weak chance to make the playoffs. That's just reality. 

[BCHabnut]

From 98 to 03 the Canadians made the playoffs once. They were perennial bottom feeders year over year. Had no depth in any positon. If this is your assessment, I will keep it mind when reading your stuff.

 

Go preds.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

From 98 to 03 the Canadians made the playoffs once. They were perennial bottom feeders year over year. Had no depth in any positon. If this is your assessment, I will keep it mind when reading your stuff.

 

Go preds.

 

They made the playoffs twice, in 98 and 02. Their weakest season was 00-01 with 28 wins and 70 points. Last season was 29 wins and 71 points. 

 

98-03 is 6 seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 2 playoff series wins.

 

13-18 is 6 seasons, 4 playoff appearances, 3 playoff series wins.

 

Forgive me if I'm not so easily impressed.

[BCHabnut]

If you watched the canadiens from 98 99 to 01 02, and you watched them from 13 to 18, and your assessment is that they are the same,  then we are done here. Good talk.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Last year's team was as bad as the late 1990s.

 

This team is probably a bit better, assuming Price picks up his game. But still pretty bad.

 

But the team prior to last season was not at all in the same category as those terrible Houle teams - it was better than that.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

46 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Last year's team was as bad as the late 1990s.

 

This team is probably a bit better, assuming Price picks up his game. But still pretty bad.

 

But the team prior to last season was not at all in the same category as those terrible Houle teams - it was better than that.

 

"As those terrible Houle teams"

 

I agree with the late teams. 96 team was very, very good. 97 team was still pretty good but being quickly torn apart. 98-00 were garbage. The year he was fired early in 00-01, was the worst Habs team in history for season results and last year he was close to that. 

 

The current club has a Pacioretty on his way out after his worst season, an out of position Drouin with second line scoring, Domi coming in unable to score 10 goals in an 82 game season, won't have Weber for half the season, will have Petry playing 1RD again for half the season, atrocious D otherwise, Gallagher had his best season and it was only 54 points, like what else is there other than maybe Price plays like the best goalie in the league? Are we hoping for a 50 point season from Danault? Scherbak or Lehkonen do better than 35 points? Am I supposed to be impressed by Domi when nine Coyotes scored more goals than him last year? Am I supposed to think Alzner will bounce back? What am I missing?

 

This team is as bad as those teams. We just don't have to live through skate in the crease rules. And much like back then, we have to deal with the Leafs and Bruins being better. When the only thing one can say in pride is at least we are not the Ottawa Senators, what's there to look forward to? The Houle years at least had Koivu. Drouin is no Koivu.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

If you watched the canadiens from 98 99 to 01 02, and you watched them from 13 to 18, and your assessment is that they are the same,  then we are done here. Good talk.

I think you are overlooking the advantages the current have over he late 90’s habs. L The late 90’s habs were a cheap team that wasn’t willing/able to spend, which limited their ability to compete almost as much as the actions of management.  The current team has no financial constraints.  The only reason they suck so much is the incompetence of management.