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July 1st NHL free agency


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Is there anyone out there (not named Tavares) you want the habs to go after? Its a pretty week year for free agency. Our at this point just let the kids play and see what we got? Deep draft next year another top 5 pick would be great.

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Bergevin. You hate Bergevin. Bergevin. This is all about Bergevin for you. Bergevin. He traded Subban. You hate him for that. It is clear as day. You used to be a reasonable and open minded poster unt

You do me an injustice in one specific sense , which is thinking that I hated the Subban deal just because I loved Subban, period. In fact, had we moved Subban to address an actual (as opposed to make

Exactly.  Greatest fans in the world, awesome facilities to play in, a competitve AHL team, beautiful French women and the chance at a $9M/year bloated contract.

8 minutes ago, illWill said:

Let's sign nobody and suck all year again. Or even better let's sign some players and cry about how stupid it was

 

Or better yet let’s trade Weber and Price, don’t need those bums they hurt the tank.

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I honestly don't know what to expect. I know apparently the team had the wrong "attitude", so Galchenyuk was shipped out. The attempted trade of Patches went kablooie, so now there's more "attitude" to deal with there. Eventually, we're going to run out of attitude to trade.

 

As far as actual UFAs, I expect 2-3 depth dmen (can never have enough!), a potential forward reclamation project, and that's about it. I can't imagine starting the season with Patches at this point, but I have just no idea on the return for him. I can see the team persuing Perron as a short term replacement for Pacioretty, depending on what he's looking for for a contract. Other than that, could the Habs trade for bad/inflated contracts? Brouwer, Lucic, Callahan? I'd say take some crap on for some draft picks.

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12 minutes ago, huzer said:

. Other than that, could the Habs trade for bad/inflated contracts? Brouwer, Lucic, Callahan? I'd say take some crap on for some draft picks.

If Bergevin doesn't at least fill one glaring hole in roster, I think many are with you and use cap space to add bad contract or two in return for picks and follow Commandants master plan he laid out in some thread recently.

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17 minutes ago, illWill said:

Let's sign nobody and suck all year again. Or even better let's sign some players and cry about how stupid it was

If us sucking next year  or even the year after gets us elite players that we can build a contending team around every year then sign me up.  I am just tired of these retools we do every 2 years.

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7 minutes ago, Metallica said:

If us sucking next year  or even the year after gets us elite players that we can build a contending team around every year then sign me up.  I am just tired of these retools we do every 2 years.

 

Key word there is IF. I don't know about you but this was the worst year I can remember as a Hab fan and I don't want to go through it again. IF the team sucks and gets us elite players then we are good? No, it doesn't work that way all of the time. 

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6 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Key word there is IF. I don't know about you but this was the worst year I can remember as a Hab fan and I don't want to go through it again. IF the team sucks and gets us elite players then we are good? No, it doesn't work that way all of the time. 

Next year's draft is suppose to be good, so if we can get another top 5 pick or one could only dream  get the top pick I am all in. I want this team to compete and be cup favorites every year.  I want us to be a top team in the NHL.

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10 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Next year's draft is suppose to be good, so if we can get another top 5 pick or one could only dream  get the top pick I am all in. I want this team to compete and be cup favorites every year.  I want us to be a top team in the NHL.

This was an optimal year for us in the draft. We’d played terrible and happened to move up a spot in the lottery. Tankers were in full support come early February. After drafting 11 players some people are still questioning how well we did in the draft itself.

 

If this season wasn’t a learning experience for those who want to end low in the standings and draft high, there won’t be one. The chances of ending low enough to draft a generational talent are extremely low. If we’re bad, there’s always someone worse. Add on to that what’s happened to Buffalo two of the three years they should have had first overall pick and it becomes even more pointless to think of things that way.

 

The one time a year I was a pro tanker was on draft day, June 22nd, 2018. Every other day, I just don’t see it.

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7 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Next year's draft is suppose to be good, so if we can get another top 5 pick or one could only dream  get the top pick I am all in. I want this team to compete and be cup favorites every year.  I want us to be a top team in the NHL.

 

Next year is centre heaven for anyone with high picks. Hughes, Newhook, Turcotte, Cozens, Lavoie, and Dach will all go in the Top 15 unless one drops hard. Lavoie, Dach and Cozens are all big right handed centres while Hughes, Newhook, and Turcotte are smaller with high skill. It's a big reason why I've been screaming for first round picks in 2019 and 2020. If we finish bottom five the next two years and land Lavoie and Lafreniere or Cozens and Byfield or any combination of such, we're probably set up front for years.

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4 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

If we finish bottom five the next two years and land Lavoie and Lafreniere or Cozens and Byfield or any combination of such, we're probably set up front for years.

 

Okay and then by that time we will have other question marks on the team that will need to be addressed. There is no exact science on how to build a cup winning team or otherwise everyone would do it. 

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6 minutes ago, illWill said:

Okay and then by that time we will have other question marks on the team that will need to be addressed. There is no exact science on how to build a cup winning team or otherwise everyone would do it. 

 

Yup. Set up front. You need other draft picks to be set in other places. 

 

Again, in a choice between treading water with the current club and rebuilding with fresh management and fresh players, I'll take fresh. Almost every Cup winning team has a Top 5 draft pick in the past 10 seasons. Even if you can guarantee no Stanley Cup for the next seven years, I'll still take it. Better that than another seven years of the same failed "make the playoffs and see what happens" strategy.

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17 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Yup. Set up front. You need other draft picks to be set in other places. 

 

Again, in a choice between treading water with the current club and rebuilding with fresh management and fresh players, I'll take fresh. Almost every Cup winning team has a Top 5 draft pick in the past 10 seasons. Even if you can guarantee no Stanley Cup for the next seven years, I'll still take it. Better that than another seven years of the same failed "make the playoffs and see what happens" strategy.

 

We have multiple top 5 draft picks on this team...and so do many teams

 

Call me old fashioned, or maybe new fashioned I don't know, but this is entertainment to me. I want to turn the game on some random night and know my team has a good chance to win. I also realize that there are 31 teams in the league and the odds clearly state that my team will likely not win the Cup even if they are elite. 

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6 minutes ago, illWill said:

I also realize that there are 31 teams in the league and the odds clearly state that my team will likely not win the Cup even if they are elite. 

 

Washington started their rebuild in the early 00s and didn't win a Cup until 2018. I don't think they would have ever won if they never got Backstrom and Ovechkin. Not only would they never have beaten Pittsburgh, they may have never been good enough to play them.

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12 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Washington started their rebuild in the early 00s and didn't win a Cup until 2018. I don't think they would have ever won if they never got Backstrom and Ovechkin. Not only would they never have beaten Pittsburgh, they may have never been good enough to play them.

 

Great, pencil us in for a 2032 Stanley Cup if everything goes right following their plan!

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35 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Washington started their rebuild in the early 00s and didn't win a Cup until 2018. I don't think they would have ever won if they never got Backstrom and Ovechkin. Not only would they never have beaten Pittsburgh, they may have never been good enough to play them.

Pens also wouldn’t have won without their high picks, ditto for the hawks and kings.  So the last 8 cup winners all had high draft picks to build around and all have dominant centres!

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4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Pens also wouldn’t have won without their high picks, ditto for the hawks and kings.  So the last 8 cup winners all had high draft picks to build around and all have dominant centres!

 

You know, we had a "high pick" in 2013. So much for him. We spent five years jerking him around and then dealt him for a less talented player with a better "attitude." What is the point of tanking and drafting high picks if management has no idea what to do with them?

 

I just don't think tanking is in the cards for this organization. And while I know that it's easy to point to teams that tanked and ended up winning Cups, it's also easy to point to teams that tanked and didn't - being rewarded instead with years and years of awfulness.

 

For me, the answer has always been drafting and development. A team that is not tanking needs to find franchise players, or at least cornerstone pieces, outside the top-10 with some reliability, then develop them properly. Take the Habs. If we had kept and developed Ryan McDonagh, PK Subban, and Mikhail Sergachev, we would have an elite blueline in front of Carey Price and we'd all be talking much more excitedly about next season right now. (OK, admittedly Sergachev was a top-10 pick, but he still was not a 'tank' pick).

 

All three of those players were dealt away by GMs seeking short-cuts in lieu of proper player development. Gainey was seeking a short-cut to competitiveness after blowing up the team. Bergevin was seeking...I don't know what he was seeking when he traded Subban; it certainly wasn't anything to do with hockey. Sergachev, he moved as a short-cut to try to get a C. Of course, being Bergevin, he f**ked it up. The point is, it was a short-cut.

 

The answer has been right under our noses all along. Draft elite players, develop them properly like we did with Price. Galy could be a 60-70-point C by now. Subban and McD could be a dominant RD one-two punch, Sergy emerging as Markov's natural successor at LD. Throw in guys like Patches (another cornerstone player we drafted outside the top-10 and managed to develop properly), Gallagher, and some shrewd moves, and - would we be contenders? Who knows, but we'd be a damned sight better than we are right now, that much I can guarantee.

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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

You know, we had a "high pick" in 2013. So much for him. We spent five years jerking him around and then dealt him for a less talented player with a better "attitude." What is the point of tanking and drafting high picks if management has no idea what to do with them?

 

I just don't think tanking is in the cards for this organization. And while I know that it's easy to point to teams that tanked and ended up winning Cups, it's also easy to point to teams that tanked and didn't - being rewarded instead with years and years of awfulness.

 

For me, the answer has always been drafting and development. A team that is not tanking needs to find franchise players, or at least cornerstone pieces, outside the top-10 with some reliability, then develop them properly. Take the Habs. If we had kept and developed Ryan McDonagh, PK Subban, and Mikhail Sergachev, we would have an elite blueline in front of Carey Price and we'd all be talking much more excitedly about next season right now. (OK, admittedly Sergachev was a top-10 pick, but he still was not a 'tank' pick).

 

All three of those players were dealt away by GMs seeking short-cuts in lieu of proper player development. Gainey was seeking a short-cut to competitiveness after blowing up the team. Bergevin was seeking...I don't know what he was seeking when he traded Subban; it certainly wasn't anything to do with hockey. Sergachev, he moved as a short-cut to try to get a C. Of course, being Bergevin, he f**ked it up. The point is, it was a short-cut.

 

The answer has been right under our noses all along. Draft elite players, develop them properly like we did with Price. Galy could be a 60-70-point C by now. Subban and McD could be a dominant RD one-two punch, Sergy emerging as Markov's natural successor at LD. Throw in guys like Patches (another cornerstone player we drafted outside the top-10 and managed to develop properly), Gallagher, and some shrewd moves, and - would we be contenders? Who knows, but we'd be a damned sight better than we are right now, that much I can guarantee.

 

Like I previously said, everyone is a genius after the fact. 

 

Drafted Galchenyuk at #3 and it's management's fault of course that he never succeeded. 

 

We traded McDonaugh, who from a position of strength, for what was at the time a pretty good center in Gomez. Tried to fill the need but it failed. Wish Gainey was psychic and seen that coming. Traded Subban for Weber, great player for player, no need to get into that sore spot for some. Traded unknown Sergachev for established Drouin and tried him at center. Maybe wrong to thrust him into that position but still not a bad trade regardless of how much you hate him.

 

 

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2013 was a weak draft year we took galchenyuk hoping he was the center we been missing. But what we should of did was trade that 3rd overall pick for someone who could of made an impact on the team.  We were considered a contending team.  If we traded that pick for an impact player who knows how things would of workout. This draft at least there was good impact players at 3 to pick from. Same as next year's draft. Theres a lot of impact players in the top 10. Could make a big difference for us 2-3 years from now.

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12 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Like I previously said, everyone is a genius after the fact. 

 

Drafted Galchenyuk at #3 and it's management's fault of course that he never succeeded. 

 

We traded McDonaugh, who from a position of strength, for what was at the time a pretty good center in Gomez. Tried to fill the need but it failed. Wish Gainey was psychic and seen that coming. Traded Subban for Weber, great player for player, no need to get into that sore spot for some. Traded unknown Sergachev for established Drouin and tried him at center. Maybe wrong to thrust him into that position but still not a bad trade regardless of how much you hate him.

 

 

Um last I remember Gomez was on the down hill and was largely over paid. Which is why NY was more then happy to trade him to us.  It was a desperate attempt to get a center that failed big time.

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4 minutes ago, Metallica said:

2013 was a weak draft year we took galchenyuk hoping he was the center we been missing. But what we should of did was trade that 3rd overall pick for someone who could of made an impact on the team.  We were considered a contending team.  If we traded that pick for an impact player who knows how things would of workout. This draft at least there was good impact players at 3 to pick from. Same as next year's draft. Theres a lot of impact players in the top 10. Could make a big difference for us 2-3 years from now.

 

That was arguably the worst draft year in recent memory and yet a pivotal one for the Habs. They got "lucky" Galchenyuk fell to them, but also unlucky that he is dumb as a bag of hammers and can't see the game properly. 

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8 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Um last I remember Gomez was on the down hill and was largely over paid. Which is why NY was more then happy to trade him to us.  It was a desperate attempt to get a center that failed big time.

 

I hated the trade as well at the time, mostly because of his contract, but we can't say we didn't try to fix the problem at center for the last 20 years. Gomez was a solid 60 point pivot, rookie of the year, cup winner, who happened to fall off a cliff after the Habs got him. 

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20 minutes ago, illWill said:

Traded unknown Sergachev for established Drouin and tried him at center. Maybe wrong to thrust him into that position but still not a bad trade regardless of how much you hate him.

 

I looked back at the thread when the trade happened. I was cautious because I really liked Drouin from what I watched with him in Tampa, defended him when he was fighting with Cooper, but was afraid we would try him as a centre instead of a winger. I also hated when finding out it wasn't 1 for 1 and we offered an "insurance" policy pick to Yzerman if Sergachev didn't play the full season. I would still be defending the trade player for player if Drouin stayed on the wing, especially if Bergein found his wallet and paid Radulov $7M per season. We would have walked into next season with Radulov, Pacioretty, Drouin, and Gallagher at wing. That's top tier at wing. Just weak down the middle. The eternal problem.

 

Also found this lovely tweet.

 

 

"It wouldn't be fair to him."

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

Like I previously said, everyone is a genius after the fact. 

 

Drafted Galchenyuk at #3 and it's management's fault of course that he never succeeded. 

 

We traded McDonaugh, who from a position of strength, for what was at the time a pretty good center in Gomez. Tried to fill the need but it failed. Wish Gainey was psychic and seen that coming. Traded Subban for Weber, great player for player, no need to get into that sore spot for some. Traded unknown Sergachev for established Drouin and tried him at center. Maybe wrong to thrust him into that position but still not a bad trade regardless of how much you hate him.

 

 

 

When on earth did I say I hated Drouin? 

 

The point of my post was that the Habs would be a much better team today if they had had the patience and the wherwithal to develop their talent and keep the talent they developed. The wider point in fact supports your distaste for tanking (which is why your indignation here is misplaced). The Habs are not contenders for many reasons, but 'failing' to tank is not one of those reasons. Trading prospects and young players in search of quick fixes and shibboleths like 'leadership' *is.*

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