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Metallica

Time to face reality a blow this team up now

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

You guys are aware that the NHL uses a lottery system, right? We can stink to high heaven and still come nowhere near the #1 pick.

 

2019 has Hughes, Cozens, and Lavoie who could all change the franchise fortunes in the future. 

 

Add more first round picks after moving Pacioretty, Weber, Price, Gallagher, maybe Petry. 

 

Stack the deck is all I'm saying. Every chance possible.

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12 minutes ago, Link67 said:

Lets just stop with over reactions, look around people, some of you are whining about having a low key UFA day, trying to compare what the top teams in the east are doing compared to us, and in the same sentence want a rebuild? Is this not the exact steps you take when you are re-tooling or rebuilding? We signed no one over the age of 25 today besides bringing Pleky back for 1 year, we didn't go in hard after anyone that didn't want to come in on our ideal and optimal terms.

 

This team is doing exactly what you do when you are rebuilding, whether they do this for 2 years or 4 years is really the only question, but make no mistake, it is happening right now before your very eyes. They are taking the proper steps to ensure we come out of this in much better shape than we were down the road. But for the love of god can we have some realistic expectations? You think they are moving Price and Weber unless someone makes an outlandish offer? No they are not, they will sell off all expiring assets, stockpile picks and prospects that way, use available cap space to buy picks and prospects from other teams needing to dump salary.

 

Stop with the emotional cries to drop a nuke on the thing, and let them meticulously take it apart and redo it better than before. I don't understand how you can be so upset with the quiet UFA day we had, and going on about being a laughing stock of the league poking barbs into every little signing we make because of how unhelpful it is, yet also want a full on rebuild? One does not go with the god damn other, so can this fanbase, for once, get its head screwed on straight, be logical, and pick a side to this thing? You either wanted them to go out and sign JVR, Neal, and De Haan, while trading for O'Rielly later today, or you want them to sell off assets and remain a bottom 10 team this season to help you out at the draft next summer.

 

The whole "RAAAAH WE SUCK WE SIGNED NO IMPACT PLAYERS!!!" followed by "RAAAAH BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND WE MUST REBUILD THIS SUMMER!!!"...... Makes no sense to me at all.

 

About the only part I agree with is that we’re not trading Price or Weber. Outside of that, not everyone has to agree on the best approach for success. The team has clearly chosen a path but to state that they are “taking the proper steps to ensure we come out of this in much better shape” is up for debate, just as it was last off season when some were perfectly in agreement with the way the off season went. 

 

I don’t think there are many people who are in one sentence complaining that we should have signed some elite free agent, and then in the next crying for a rebuild. Instead, there are some people who would have enjoyed watching a competitive team next year, and then others who are fine with less than mediocrity until we explode into top tier (rebuild/retool). I personally don’t think there’s a right answer. Either way could have multiple outcomes. 

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I want Price Weber Petry Shaw Byron & Pacioretty traded.. TODAY!

 

When you take off a head, you do it in one fell swoop. You don't hack at it 12 times.

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8 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

About the only part I agree with is that we’re not trading Price or Weber. Outside of that, not everyone has to agree on the best approach for success. The team has clearly chosen a path but to state that they are “taking the proper steps to ensure we come out of this in much better shape” is up for debate, just as it was last off season when some were perfectly in agreement with the way the off season went. 

 

I don’t think there are many people who are in one sentence complaining that we should have signed some elite free agent, and then in the next crying for a rebuild. Instead, there are some people who would have enjoyed watching a competitive team next year, and then others who are fine with less than mediocrity until we explode into top tier (rebuild/retool). I personally don’t think there’s a right answer. Either way could have multiple outcomes. 

 

Wrong in my opinion, we have been doing the competitive yet never contenders thing for 15 years, you really think continuing that trend is the way to go?

 

We have been trending downward for 2 years now, trying to keep this team competitive with giant holes at the C position and LD would slowly become harder and harder and finally when you crash and burn for real in 3 or 4 years, you have nothing to sell off, you have no draft picks stockpiled over those years, you have no elite talent anywhere near to be found in your cupboards.

 

The time to re-tool or rebuild this thing is now

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10 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

About the only part I agree with is that we’re not trading Price or Weber. Outside of that, not everyone has to agree on the best approach for success. The team has clearly chosen a path but to state that they are “taking the proper steps to ensure we come out of this in much better shape” is up for debate, just as it was last off season when some were perfectly in agreement with the way the off season went. 

 

I don’t think there are many people who are in one sentence complaining that we should have signed some elite free agent, and then in the next crying for a rebuild. Instead, there are some people who would have enjoyed watching a competitive team next year, and then others who are fine with less than mediocrity until we explode into top tier (rebuild/retool). I personally don’t think there’s a right answer. Either way could have multiple outcomes. 

Ok top teams in the conference 

Washington 

Pittsburgh 

Tampa 

Toronto 

Now add

Nashville 

Winnipeg 

Los Vegas 

 

Do we have a chance at beating these teams to win a cup in the next 3-5 years? The answer is no because we're not as deep as these teams are both in the minors and on our NHL club. So why waste time in being a middle of the pack team and made if we're lucky make the playoffs every 2 years. Lets blow it up rebuild and in 5 years time when we start to take off these teams will be starting to fall off. Thats why we need to trade guys like Price and Weber now well they still got a good high trade value.

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4 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

Wrong in my opinion, we have been doing the competitive yet never contenders thing for 15 years, you really think continuing that trend is the way to go?

 

We have been trending downward for 2 years now, trying to keep this team competitive with giant holes at the C position and LD would slowly become harder and harder and finally when you crash and burn for real in 3 or 4 years, you have nothing to sell off, you have no draft picks stockpiled over those years, you have no elite talent anywhere near to be found in your cupboards.

 

The time to re-tool or rebuild this thing is now

 

This is exactly where we are now - Empty and finally no short term band aid to plop us along for another year. The jig is up and we need to start over.

 

We had a good draft and hopefully next year will be just as good.

 

We trade a vet or two for picks and prospects and maybe pick up other's garbage for picks.

 

We stock the cupboard and finally get young and fast and talented.

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I really like commandants idea from before. Speed rebuild in two years by taking on more bad contracts.

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57 minutes ago, JGC21 said:

 

Doutbful.  I still think Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa are more laughable than us - those teams are messed up in their own unique ways.

 

I would also say Buffalo is pathetic.  How many top picks do they need to get and still not make the playoffs?  Now that they have Dahlin, let’s see what they can do.  My guess, miss the playoffs again for the bazillionth time.

I would trade our lineup for Buffalo, Edmonton or Calgary without even giving it a seconds thought and i honk Vancouver’s future is still looking better than ours. I’ve been saying we need to blow it up for  the last two years.  Move Pacioretty, Price, Weber, take on it here’s bad contracts and target a return to the playoffs after 3 years.  I don’t see the point in keeping any of the three above, they will be in decline by the time this team is ready to complete.

 

but the biggest key is getting rid of that moron MB. I can’t see any SKILLED big name player signing with this clown given the garbage hat Subban and galchenyuk went through.  I’m sure he’ll have no trouble signing he useless Alzner’s if the world though.

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I think we are following the Vancouver model, more or less.

 

Van's approach was to "rebuild" but that didn't involve selling off every last veteran asset. Benning's argument was that if you do that, you end up in an Edmonton scenario, where you don't have a critical mass of veterans who can teach the young guys how to be NHLers, and a loser culture entrenches itself. We see EDM still struggling to get past that hump.

 

While Vancouver certainly showed signs of confusion about this basic strategy - wasting money on dodgy UFA signings like Sam Gagner - I think it is, in fact, a sensible strategy in principle. The idea that because we are not unloading every last veteran, we are not 'rebuilding,' seems false to me. It's more a question of how many vets to keep versus vets to shed.

 

This organization is clearly now looking ahead to the arrivals of Poehling and Kotkeneimi. In the interim, I guess the plan is to acquire whatever young assets we can.

 

Price stays, because he is the foundation that prevents a true culture of awfulness from sinking in.

 

A handful of other veterans stay as well. Maybe Weber, maybe not, but probably yes. Patches is gonzo for sure.

 

The irony is that none of this would have been necessary if Bergevin had not so badly mismanaged the strong core he inherited. But it's happened, and the rebuild is now upon us.

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38 minutes ago, Link67 said:

Lets just stop with over reactions, look around people, some of you are whining about having a low key UFA day, trying to compare what the top teams in the east are doing compared to us, and in the same sentence want a rebuild? Is this not the exact steps you take when you are re-tooling or rebuilding? We signed no one over the age of 25 today besides bringing Pleky back for 1 year, we didn't go in hard after anyone that didn't want to come in on our ideal and optimal terms.

 

This team is doing exactly what you do when you are rebuilding, whether they do this for 2 years or 4 years is really the only question, but make no mistake, it is happening right now before your very eyes. They are taking the proper steps to ensure we come out of this in much better shape than we were down the road. But for the love of god can we have some realistic expectations? You think they are moving Price and Weber unless someone makes an outlandish offer? No they are not, they will sell off all expiring assets, stockpile picks and prospects that way, use available cap space to buy picks and prospects from other teams needing to dump salary.

 

Stop with the emotional cries to drop a nuke on the thing, and let them meticulously take it apart and redo it better than before. I don't understand how you can be so upset with the quiet UFA day we had, and going on about being a laughing stock of the league poking barbs into every little signing we make because of how unhelpful it is, yet also want a full on rebuild? One does not go with the god damn other, so can this fanbase, for once, get its head screwed on straight, be logical, and pick a side to this thing? You either wanted them to go out and sign JVR, Neal, and De Haan, while trading for O'Rielly later today, or you want them to sell off assets and remain a bottom 10 team this season to help you out at the draft next summer.

 

The whole "RAAAAH WE SUCK WE SIGNED NO IMPACT PLAYERS!!!" followed by "RAAAAH BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND WE MUST REBUILD THIS SUMMER!!!"...... Makes no sense to me at all.

 

What makes sense to you - stumblling along another 2 decades of mediocrity!???  We need to move price and Weber before there value drops like Pacioretty’s has.  Calgarybhung on to Iginla 3 years too long and got 10 cents on the dollar for him.

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29 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

Wrong in my opinion, we have been doing the competitive yet never contenders thing for 15 years, you really think continuing that trend is the way to go?

 

We have been trending downward for 2 years now, trying to keep this team competitive with giant holes at the C position and LD would slowly become harder and harder and finally when you crash and burn for real in 3 or 4 years, you have nothing to sell off, you have no draft picks stockpiled over those years, you have no elite talent anywhere near to be found in your cupboards.

 

The time to re-tool or rebuild this thing is now

There’s no reason for any fan to want to finish outside of the playoffs, period. High draft picks are nice but they are far from guaranteed considering we still have players on this team who are capable of bringing our team into the 8th-11th range. Furthermore, even when you land near the bottom of the standings, it doesn’t ensure winning the lottery. 

 

If you ask me if we are a better team this upcoming year than last year when it comes to where we ended up in the final standings, I think we are. Because it doesn’t say much, and a few players are likely to have better years. So if you think we’re doing things right by getting “slightly better” after having done basically nothing, be my guest by all means.

 

There’s not even a consensus within your post, stating that we should retool or rebuild. Well, which one is it? A team can re-tool by adding quality players as well. 

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I think we are following the Vancouver model, more or less.

 

Van's approach was to "rebuild" but that didn't involve selling off every last veteran asset. Benning's argument was that if you do that, you end up in an Edmonton scenario, where you don't have a critical mass of veterans who can teach the young guys how to be NHLers, and a loser culture entrenches itself. We see EDM still struggling to get past that hump.

 

While Vancouver certainly showed signs of confusion about this basic strategy - wasting money on dodgy UFA signings like Sam Gagner - I think it is, in fact, a sensible strategy in principle. The idea that because we are not unloading every last veteran, we are not 'rebuilding,' seems false to me. It's more a question of how many vets to keep versus vets to shed.

 

This organization is clearly now looking ahead to the arrivals of Poehling and Kotkeneimi. In the interim, I guess the plan is to acquire whatever young assets we can.

 

Price stays, because he is the foundation that prevents a true culture of awfulness from sinking in.

 

A handful of other veterans stay as well. Maybe Weber, maybe not, but probably yes. Patches is gonzo for sure.

 

The irony is that none of this would have been necessary if Bergevin had not so badly mismanaged the strong core he inherited. But it's happened, and the rebuild is now upon us.

I wouldn't put the blame alone on Bergevin. I think what has happened with this organization is when Price, Gallagher, Subban, Pacioretty made the jump to the NHL and became our core group, we stopped drafting and developing players. We dropped the rebuild label and became contenders. We tried so hard to get that last piece of the puzzle that we stopped looking toward the future. This is the end result of it. Some of it is on Bob, some of it is on PG, but most of it is on Bergevin.

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4 minutes ago, Metallica said:

I wouldn't put the blame alone on Bergevin. I think what has happened with this organization is when Price, Gallagher, Subban, Pacioretty made the jump to the NHL and became our core group, we stopped drafting and developing players. We dropped the rebuild label and became contenders. We tried so hard to get that last piece of the puzzle that we stopped looking toward the future. This is the end result of it. Some of it is on Bob, some of it is on PG, but most of it is on Bergevin.

 

MB was handed a quality core and he completely screwed it up. This mess is 100% because of a very bad GM that is trying to build a 2003 contender because he doesn't know any better.

 

This is on a GM that surrounded himself with foxhole buddies that were crap, including the coaches past and present.

 

The result is miss use of players, poor development and shitass trades.

 

This mess is 100% on MB and Molson  for not doing anything about it.

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9 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What makes sense to you - stumblling along another 2 decades of mediocrity!???  We need to move price and Weber before there value drops like Pacioretty’s has.  Calgarybhung on to Iginla 3 years too long and got 10 cents on the dollar for him.

 

 Extended mediocrity is the exact opposite of what I am preaching, did you even read what I wrote? You don't move Price and Weber right now because

 

1. They aren't easy to move to a contender with their contracts.

2. We don't know how quick we can re-tool this thing, if it only takes 2 years, they would obviously still be good to have around if we turn an important corner then. If it looks like we are still up shits creek by then, Price is still 32, and Weber is still useful, we sell them off then.

 

You can't just go into every season as an NHL team trying to trade away your assets when their value is at its peak because you are worried about getting 10 cents on the dollar later down the road. You would essentially be trading away every good player at age 29, and also be stuck in mediocrity or worse for 2 decades, so the hindsight 20/20 strategy you speak of is far from solid.

 

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5 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

MB was handed a quality core and he completely screwed it up. This mess is 100% because of a very bad GM that is trying to build a 2003 contender because he doesn't know any better.

 

This is on a GM that surrounded himself with foxhole buddies that were crap, including the coaches past and present.

 

The result is miss use of players, poor development and shitass trades.

 

This mess is 100% on MB and Molson  for not doing anything about it.

Yes Bergevin blow the NHL team and its his fault we're here.  But he had a weak minors team when he got here that's on Bob and PG. 

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Look at Vegas... Made it to the finals with other teams 20-25 year old rejects and a few veterans.

I want to see what we have in Poehling, Kotkaniemi and some others and also factor in a full season of Weber and a Price playing a bit more like Price before I totally give up on the season.

Fools hope? Maybe but I am not going to give up in advance.

Worst case I hope we get alot of pics for next years draft and stack up on more potential star players.

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I was just at my gym, and the chirping from Leafs fans has started already...and there is no comeback.  The fact is: the Leafs are powerhouse and the Canadiens are absolute dogshit.  So depressing.

 

Blow it completely up....Lose For Hughes is about the best thing we can hope for at this point.

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People dislike that Montreal management have blinded themselves in the past as potential contenders due to Carey Price being on the team and yet the reality is that with Carey Price on the team, we’re also not likely to be a lottery team. Simply because he’s on the team. On the other hand, if Carey Price of last year is the real Carey Price, then perhaps we will be and the team has even bigger issues. 

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5 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

People dislike that Montreal management have blinded themselves in the past as potential contenders due to Carey Price being on the team and yet the reality is that with Carey Price on the team, we’re also not likely to be a lottery team. Simply because he’s on the team. On the other hand, if Carey Price of last year is the real Carey Price, then perhaps we will be and the team has even bigger issues. 

 

I would rather Carey have a great season so the teams he agrees to goto think he's an undeniable asset to acquire.

 

Say, 60 games lost at 2-1?

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2 hours ago, Link67 said:

Lets just stop with over reactions, look around people, some of you are whining about having a low key UFA day, trying to compare what the top teams in the east are doing compared to us, and in the same sentence want a rebuild? Is this not the exact steps you take when you are re-tooling or rebuilding? We signed no one over the age of 25 today besides bringing Pleky back for 1 year, we didn't go in hard after anyone that didn't want to come in on our ideal and optimal terms.

 

This team is doing exactly what you do when you are rebuilding, whether they do this for 2 years or 4 years is really the only question, but make no mistake, it is happening right now before your very eyes. They are taking the proper steps to ensure we come out of this in much better shape than we were down the road. But for the love of god can we have some realistic expectations? You think they are moving Price and Weber unless someone makes an outlandish offer? No they are not, they will sell off all expiring assets, stockpile picks and prospects that way, use available cap space to buy picks and prospects from other teams needing to dump salary.

 

Stop with the emotional cries to drop a nuke on the thing, and let them meticulously take it apart and redo it better than before. I don't understand how you can be so upset with the quiet UFA day we had, and going on about being a laughing stock of the league poking barbs into every little signing we make because of how unhelpful it is, yet also want a full on rebuild? One does not go with the god damn other, so can this fanbase, for once, get its head screwed on straight, be logical, and pick a side to this thing? You either wanted them to go out and sign JVR, Neal, and De Haan, while trading for O'Rielly later today, or you want them to sell off assets and remain a bottom 10 team this season to help you out at the draft next summer.

 

The whole "RAAAAH WE SUCK WE SIGNED NO IMPACT PLAYERS!!!" followed by "RAAAAH BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND WE MUST REBUILD THIS SUMMER!!!"...... Makes no sense to me at all.

 

 

More of this please!!!

 

We’ve been through hell since ‘93. Mgmt finally ponies up for a proper rebuild and everyone behaves as though they just lost a testicle in a cleaver fight.

 

Sit back. It’s a process that most of us as true hockey fans will actually enjoy. 

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37 minutes ago, zumpano21 said:

 

More of this please!!!

 

We’ve been through hell since ‘93. Mgmt finally ponies up for a proper rebuild and everyone behaves as though they just lost a testicle in a cleaver fight.

 

Sit back. It’s a process that most of us as true hockey fans will actually enjoy. 

 

The only true fan is one who says, "I like x team"

 

Everyone is a true fan. 

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49 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

The only true fan is one who says, "I like x team"

 

Everyone is a true fan. 

Not everyone, you get these who only follow the team when they're in the playoffs. The one's people referring to as " bandwagon jumper's". These aren't true fans.

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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Wake up, boys. Barring some unexpected UFA signings or moves that bring back established middle-aged NHLers, the team has basically bottomed out in terms of talent. The 'rebuild' era is upon us. It's early days, but so far it looks to me like Friedman's report that MB had somehow sold Molson on missing the playoffs in return for picks and prospects was accurate.

 

 

It was the other way around.... Molson told MB not to make quick fixes just to make the playoffs, but get picks and prospects instead. 

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I think, best case scenario, there are 2 seasons of suck before this turns.

Im writing off 2018-19.

 

2019-20 is kotka and poehling as rookies if we are lucky. And i dont see two rookie cs leading the way to contention. It will be a development year.

 

So 2020-21 is our realistic goal.

Build assets until then.

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6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I think, best case scenario, there are 2 seasons of suck before this turns.

Im writing off 2018-19.

 

2019-20 is kotka and poehling as rookies if we are lucky. And i dont see two rookie cs leading the way to contention. It will be a development year.

 

So 2020-21 is our realistic goal.

Build assets until then.

 

#LoseForHughes

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