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REV-G

Finally, I like the plan and direction!

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It may boil down to how you choose to look at things. Fact- the past 7 years we have had highs and lows but the past 3-4 years have been lows. The result was that pretty much all of us were calling for MB's head. Let's put the past few years aside for a moment and just look at today and the next 5 years.

 

1. We have and are stockpiling draft picks and the result has been very good drafts in 2017 and 2018 and at the moment we have 7 picks for 2019, which will likely increase. Our talent pool has dramatically improved with a bright future.

 

2. MB did not trade away our future assets or present ones on July 1 for a short term fix. He refused to overpay and give up our future. He walked away from mortgaging our future.  

 

3. Whatever words people choose to use we are obviously in a rebuild of sort and building a young team with very good prospects on the near horizon, maybe a year away, but with more coming. And we didn't try to add an expensive piece or two just to make the playoffs in 2019. 

 

4. Instead of spinning our tires and staying where we have been for the past 2-3 years there is a genuine plan in place to change this team and build a team that will be strong down the middle for many years.

 

5. When Toronto went through their rebuild they said there would be many years of pain. It wasn't as long as they thought. Granted they had multiple high picks for quite a few years. If we are willing to live through next year when we will likely be at the bottom of the league, I think there is a very good plan in place because we will get a very good player in the next draft and possibly have a shot at the top pick.

 

6. We have added two young french speaking coaches who are very good at working with young players. 

 

7. With our cap space we will likely be able to pick up players or picks if we use it wisely. MB has done that already with Winnipeg.

 

So I don't think we should complain and fight about next season. We should see it as it is. We're likely going to have a losing season but I think it will be worth it when we see what we likely will have a year from now. We're clearly stockpiling younger players and draft picks and I think our future is bright. There is a breath of fresh air blowing through our team and its future for the first time in a long time.

Our march to 25 has probably just started and I like the plan. 

 

So for a moment look forward and not back. What do you think? 

 

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I'm not thrilled with the Galchenyuk/Domi swap, but I can see the other points. If management can get off their damn character narrative, that would be appreciated.

 

Much depends on the development of those Cs the next few years. Neither Poehling or Kotkaniemi have been slated as sure fire #1C. I hope they continue to develop on their current trajectory. I hope SCS wins the NCAA next year and maybe Poehling will join the fold in Laval.

 

Otherwise, I'll withhold my offseason grades for now. It definitely does appear that the team should be heading in the right direction given what's occured thus far.

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Well, FWIW I shared some long-winded thoughts directly pertinent to this in the "time to face reality" thread. My main point there is that we've been here before, and that it is far from obvious that the results will be any better than what we've seen before. Those who think we FINALLY have a rebuild after decades of denial are, arguably, wrong inasmuch as we've had at least one major rebuild (and probably two others) since 1993. Optimism is all well and good, but I've seen this movie once too many times to be very excited by it.

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12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Well, FWIW I shared some long-winded thoughts directly pertinent to this in the "time to face reality" thread. My main point there is that we've been here before, and that it is far from obvious that the results will be any better than what we've seen before. Those who think we FINALLY have a rebuild after decades of denial are, arguably, wrong inasmuch as we've had at least one major rebuild (and probably two others) since 1993. Optimism is all well and good, but I've seen this movie once too many times to be very excited by it.

 

I think mainly the point here is that appears under Bergevin for the first time, there is indeed the appearance of a cohesive plan, rather than a plethora of disjointed moves. 

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We have 9 picks in 2019 thus far...

 

Also,

torontos rebuild took a helluva a lot longer then people think considering they didn’t qualify for the playoffs for like 14 of 17 seasons leading into this coming season and have had 6 x top 10 picks in the last 10 years alone!

 

They key here though is they hit on 5 of those 6 top 10 picks

mAtthews #1

marner #4

nylander #8

reilly #5

kadri #8

 

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4 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

We have 9 picks in 2019 thus far...

 

Also,

torontos rebuild took a helluva a lot longer then people think considering they didn’t qualify for the playoffs for like 14 of 17 seasons leading into this coming season and have had 6 x top 10 picks in the last 10 years alone!

 

They key here though is they hit on 5 of those 6 top 10 picks

mAtthews #1

marner #4

nylander #8

reilly #5

kadri #8

 

 

Toronto were not rebuilding between 2006 and 2014. 05-06 to 08-09 they were trying to make the playoffs and failing. 08-09 to 11-12 Burke thought he had a contender which is why he traded two first round picks for Kessel but they still sucked. 12-13 they made the playoffs so new GM Nonis traded for Bolland, bought out Grabovski, and signed Clarkson to make the playoffs again. They didn't. They started the rebuild in 14-15 and went full rebuild after 14-15 when Shanahan was hired. They bottomed out in 15-16, squeaked into the playoffs in 16-17, and this past season was their first where they were targeting the playoffs.

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" Team need " us what MB and this management team and scouts have been directed to search.  Obvious by this draft year and all the C

 

And 2017 and the D

 

They are hitting darts at a target hoping that some will be the home run. That maybe so.. If they are lucky.

 

Now few 100km's away..

 

Check what Toronto and their GM is doing:

 

" NOT team need " BUT elite talent..and in draft choosing best players available. ..

 

https://sports.vice.com/en_ca/article/xwmn7k/kyle-dubas-helps-toronto-maple-leafs-land-star-free-agent-john-tavares-from-islanders

Dubas prioritized elite talent over team needs by bringing star free agent John Tavares to Toronto. It sounds simple, but few teams operate this way.

"...Not long after Kyle Dubas became general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs in May, he was asked what he was looking for in this year's draft. Defensemen? Forwards? Perhaps a goaltender? What's the game plan?

"I like good players," Dubas said. "So we'll try to find those. That'll be priority one."...."

 

That's our rival number priority.. Whereas the Habs search for Team needs.. Well Team needs are always changing ..what can be a team need today isn't tomorrow. IF one chooses best players available.

 

NO Lateral movements ( Subban for Weber.. Domi for Galchenyuk....) 

 

MB is being reactive instead of proactive.

 

The world has changed, hockey has changedone has to be progressive. And another bottom five year..and draft lottery and if they are Lucky for 2019 an land Jack Hughes and in 2020 Alex Lafreniere 

 

 

Luckily MB and the Habs are relying on luck , it's like all of us relying on lottery wins. Could happen . . but, I rather choose what is under our control and minimize risk. Pick and trade for best players available, sign FA with elite talent and not positional need to start.

 

Go after the missing piece and needs after you have solid foundation.

 

And today we don't.. Well Price, Weber..... And if he stays Pacoretty..  

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What’s relative here in all this talk is that in the last 10 years the leafs were able to draft 6 players in the Top 10. Regardless if the “rebuild” started 3 seasons or 4 seasons ago or 5 seasons ago!!!

That alone will speed up any rebuild significantly. The year they drafted Austin they dumped everyone they could at the deadline.. and were able to draft a generational C at #1 winning lottery.

 

Also in hindsight....

 

the leafs first 2 picks of the last 2 drafts have been defencemen!

 

so 4 Dman drafted in the top 2 rounds the last 2 seasons. Not sure if they were the best players available? Or drafted by positional need? 

Clearly contrary to Dubas remarks!

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10 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

so 4 Dman drafted in the top 2 rounds the last 2 seasons. Not sure if they were the best players available? Or drafted by positional need? 

Clearly contrary to Dubas remarks!

 

Mark Hunter ran the draft up until this year. This year Dubas selects a Soo Greyhound defenceman he knew very well.

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Oh come on, Dubas has been GM for all of 5 minutes in Toronto. He lucked into an elite superstar quality UFA that wanted to come home. 

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Point is the leafs drafted 4 defencemen with the first 2 picks in each of the last 2 drafts clearly drafting by positional need... unless these 4 players weee the best available... I’m not sure...

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5 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Point is the leafs drafted 4 defencemen with the first 2 picks in each of the last 2 drafts clearly drafting by positional need... unless these 4 players weee the best available... I’m not sure...

 

I think they were. Liljgren fell from where he was expected to go. Sandin I thought was a reach but I guess he was drafted right around where he was expected to go.

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This direction only really makes sense if Montreal moves one or both of Weber and Price. 

 

Let's face it.. Toronto and Tampa will be top 2 in the division, plus Boston looks pretty strong.. meaning Montreal is likely chasing a Wild Card. 

Our best bet is to trade some vets for younger players and draft picks.. look to open a new window in three or four years when Tampa and Toronto will be older and in cap hell. 

 

Take on some bad contracts and get youth/picks. 

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38 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

This direction only really makes sense if Montreal moves one or both of Weber and Price. 

 

Let's face it.. Toronto and Tampa will be top 2 in the division, plus Boston looks pretty strong.. meaning Montreal is likely chasing a Wild Card. 

Our best bet is to trade some vets for younger players and draft picks.. look to open a new window in three or four years when Tampa and Toronto will be older and in cap hell. 

 

Take on some bad contracts and get youth/picks. 

 

I put their playoff chances this year at 1%. That 1% is if Price returns to 14-15 form and the team wins 2-1 games. Otherwise there's no chance.

 

Toronto is better.

Tampa Bay is better.

Boston is pretty much the same.

Florida adding Hoffman and being more comfortable in Boughner's style should push them to a wildcard fight again.

Detroit should be the same or worse, only way they are better is Bernier stealing games.

Montreal will have trouble scoring compared to last years team.

Ottawa will be a little worse than last year, maybe much worse if they trade Duchene and Karlsson.

Buffalo should be worse losing ROR and Kane for Berglund, Sobotka, and Sheary but they added a generational defenceman so who knows how that changes things. Carter Hutton is intriguing.

 

Washington should be the same unless the new coach sucks.

Pittsburgh should be the same.

Philadelphia should be better, biggest note of interest is what they get for Simmonds who seems on his way out. Goaltending is still poop.

Columbus is the toughest team to figure out. They could win their division, land a wildcard, or completely crash and burn in Top Cops' final contract year.

New Jersey should be a little better.

New York Islanders should be bad unless Barzal takes a leap.

New York Rangers are tanking.

 

That's 4/8 competing for a spot in the Atlantic and 5/7 in the Metro competing. For 8 spots. Montreal will have a very hard time getting in there. They need a miracle.

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36 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I put their playoff chances this year at 1%. That 1% is if Price returns to 14-15 form and the team wins 2-1 games. Otherwise there's no chance.

 

Toronto is better.

Tampa Bay is better.

Boston is pretty much the same.

Florida adding Hoffman and being more comfortable in Boughner's style should push them to a wildcard fight again.

Detroit should be the same or worse, only way they are better is Bernier stealing games.

Montreal will have trouble scoring compared to last years team.

Ottawa will be a little worse than last year, maybe much worse if they trade Duchene and Karlsson.

Buffalo should be worse losing ROR and Kane for Berglund, Sobotka, and Sheary but they added a generational defenceman so who knows how that changes things. Carter Hutton is intriguing.

 

Washington should be the same unless the new coach sucks.

Pittsburgh should be the same.

Philadelphia should be better, biggest note of interest is what they get for Simmonds who seems on his way out. Goaltending is still poop.

Columbus is the toughest team to figure out. They could win their division, land a wildcard, or completely crash and burn in Top Cops' final contract year.

New Jersey should be a little better.

New York Islanders should be bad unless Barzal takes a leap.

New York Rangers are tanking.

 

That's 4/8 competing for a spot in the Atlantic and 5/7 in the Metro competing. For 8 spots. Montreal will have a very hard time getting in there. They need a miracle.

 

Yes, I don't disagree.. Montreal is in a tough spot which is why I'm hoping for a trade of Price/Weber.. the less games CP steals the better. 

Buffalo will be better.. they traded ROR  but Eichel moves to 1 and Mittlestadt? is their 2.. they added Dahlin, they have a better goalie.. 

 

The bottom four will be a battle between Montreal, Ottawa, NYR, and Detroit. 

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If we’re rebuilding, we should have just let Galchenyuk play a full year at center next year. I mean, I understand what opinion our management and team had towards him, but it’s not like the first headline coming out of Phoenix wasn’t “Arizona adds to center depth” or anything.  

 

:sarcasm_on:

 

Otherwise, although I don’t want him rushed and I haven’t heard anything saying he’s NHL ready, I’m hoping Kotkaniemi plays next year and gets mentored by Plekanec as well as by our #1 first line center... um oops?

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I also like the new stated direction the Canadiens is taking. But I do not like how the Pacioretty trade/contract has been handled. If they want to trade him, they are loosing som evalue by shopping him around so obviously.

If by any chance they were thinking of maybe extending him, they should have better managed the relationship.

 

For me, I will be optimistic on the reset/rebuild if the new D coaches at the NHL and AHL are competent and capable of improving the overall play. The Canadiens need to hire the best coaches available to make our below-average Ds outperform.

 

I do not see the need to trade Price, Weber or Pacioretty. The team can tank next season with those three in the lineup, they have done it in the past :)

 

We could get a lot of draft picks by trading any of them or all three, but I prefer the current soft-rebuild than a hard-stop rebuild. Just my preference.

 

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I also like the new stated direction the Canadiens is taking. But I do not like how the Pacioretty trade/contract has been handled. If they want to trade him, they are loosing som evalue by shopping him around so obviously.

If by any chance they were thinking of maybe extending him, they should have better managed the relationship.

 

For me, I will be optimistic on the reset/rebuild if the new D coaches at the NHL and AHL are competent and capable of improving the overall play. The Canadiens need to hire the best coaches available to make our below-average Ds outperform.

 

I do not see the need to trade Price, Weber or Pacioretty. The team can tank next season with those three in the lineup, they have done it in the past :)

 

We could get a lot of draft picks by trading any of them or all three, but I prefer the current soft-rebuild than a hard-stop rebuild. Just my preference.

 

The need to trade them comes from he longer we hold onto them, the less value they have - Pacioretty in particular.  This team is not going to be a legitimate playoff threat for at least 4 years.  Weber will be pan overpaid 2nd pairing by than - assuming he doesn’t demand a trade before that, which of course will drop his value even more.

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6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The need to trade them comes from he longer we hold onto them, the less value they have - Pacioretty in particular.  This team is not going to be a legitimate playoff threat for at least 4 years.  Weber will be pan overpaid 2nd pairing by than - assuming he doesn’t demand a trade before that, which of course will drop his value even more.

Not sure why or were you get us not contending for a playoff spot for 4 years... if history is any indication of future results... we are heading right back to the playoffs as early as next season let alone 4 seasons from now.

 

i get we have holes in the line up at 1 and 2 C as well as 1LD but we have a lot of good pieces and some young pieces as well!

 

Where*

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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Not sure why or were you get us not contending for a playoff spot for 4 years... if history is any indication of future results... we are heading right back to the playoffs as early as next season let alone 4 seasons from now.

 

i get we have holes in the line up at 1 and 2 C as well as 1LD but we have a lot of good pieces and some young pieces as well!

 

Where*

You think this team is going to make the playoffs next season? 

 

3-4 years is realistic. Which is why carrying Weber( who is 33 in August), conflicts with this teams time frame. 

 

Optimism is great, but the Habs don't have the horses to compete in the Atlantic. It's going to be a rough road for a while, but the only route to a Stanley cup at this point is rebuilding. Or as Marc calls it "retooling".  

 

 

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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Not sure why or were you get us not contending for a playoff spot for 4 years... if history is any indication of future results... we are heading right back to the playoffs as early as next season let alone 4 seasons from now.

 

i get we have holes in the line up at 1 and 2 C as well as 1LD but we have a lot of good pieces and some young pieces as well!

 

Where*

Who are we going to beat out for a playoff spot?  TBL, TOR, BOS are locks.  FLA will be better and are clearly better than us. Wings are in a similar boat, but at least there draft picks may provide immediate help.  Only Ottawa is worse, but than they have the worst and most incompetent owner in the league. I can’t see us being better than any of those 3 teams in the Atlantic.  

 

That leaves only one wild card spot as our only hope.  Well let’s look at the metro.  PIT, WAS, CLB should be locks.  NJD and PHIl should be better and are trending up and there futures look brighter than ours.  The rangers are on actual rebuild and actually have some better top prospects coming in next year, so in two years time they may also be further along  than us.

 

So are only hope is Price stands on his head and has another Hart year, but oh, he’s been hurt the past couple of years and last year even when healthy didn’t play well and probably checked out seeing the lineup in front of him. I doubt he is going to be more motivated given this summer.  I also think that both he and Weber will probably ask to be moved.

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Not saying we will or won’t...  to think we have no shot for at least 4 years wouldn’t be accurate either though

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13 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Not saying we will or won’t...  to think we have no shot for at least 4 years wouldn’t be accurate either though

 

Trade Price, Weber, Gallagher, Petry, and Byron, collect the prospects and picks, get more from cap dumps, by summer of 2021 our future should be very bright. Then it should be a matter of what holes need filling. I truly believe if we land a Top 5 pick in 2019 and 2020 we will have an organization worth hoping for.

 

But of course none of this happens with current management. Then again Bergevin doesn't sign Jay Beagle for four years and we are celebrating a good free agency.

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13 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Not saying we will or won’t...  to think we have no shot for at least 4 years wouldn’t be accurate either though

 

Based on my understanding of what's in the organization right now, that seems wildly unrealistic to me. A decent team? Sure. A heavy-duty contender? That assumes, I suspect, that we knock future drafting out of the park.

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24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Based on my understanding of what's in the organization right now, that seems wildly unrealistic to me. A decent team? Sure. A heavy-duty contender? That assumes, I suspect, that we knock future drafting out of the park.

Yeah! I would add this to the conversation. Does anyone here believe that MB's ears have been clipped a little bit? Would you be surprised if Mark Hunter showed up in the near future?  I have been after the Canadiens to address the center situation shortly after they won their last cup. At least now , they recognize the problem and are trying to do something about it.

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