Jump to content

Is it worth having Price and Weber on this team now with this rebuild?


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, DON said:

On a rebuilding (non-contending) team, why would you be that concerned with cap room?

Because it could prevent you from taking bad contracts along with good prospects  à la Bickell + Teuvo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Price will win a cup in Montreal 

Price, yes.  Elite goalies age well, and in 3 years i still expect him to be the backbone of the team.  He is also a leader to keep to steer the youngsters in the right direction.    At 33,

Price stays. Weber will also stay, I believe, but should he? If I were the GM, I would listen to offers for #6 but I'd take a "seller's market" approach. If I get a really nice, impressive return, the

Price for another top 10 goalie in a multi player deal sure,  but his contract no team will take on based on how injury prone he is.

If weber has a good season you might be able to pry some valuable assets at the trade deadline from a cup contender. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Next summer with the new GM: trade Weber to the highest bidder willing to take him with no cap retained (we will take a bad contract back but no salary cap retained on Weber), trade Price if an offer comes that makes sense. Make sure you get either first round picks or high prospects in the return.

 

Do that, and by 2020-2021, we might be ready to compete again with a great young core.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Next summer with the new GM: trade Weber to the highest bidder willing to take him with no cap retained (we will take a bad contract back but no salary cap retained on Weber), trade Price if an offer comes that makes sense. Make sure you get either first round picks or high prospects in the return.

 

Do that, and by 2020-2021, we might be ready to compete again with a great young core.

If Bergevin was going anywhere, I think it would have happened this year 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

There were no good candidates.

 

Now that BriseBois is out they might be either grooming Timmins or see who else is available.

Bergy is going nowhere anytime soon, Molson already hinted he knows this year will not be a contending one. So, seems expected by 99% of people that this "retooled" version of the Habs will be sellers at the deadline.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, PMAC said:

I don’t want either traded while Bergevin is still in change 

 

I tend to agree with DON above...Molson seems to be committed to Bergevin despite his appalling track record. I have a feeling MB is going to be given a bona-fide opportunity to lead the 'rebuild' (i.e. the rebuild made necessary by his cataclysmic incompetence). May as well settle in for another half-decade of Marky Mark and the F*cked-Up Bunch.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I tend to agree with DON above...Molson seems to be committed to Bergevin despite his appalling track record. I have a feeling MB is going to be given a bona-fide opportunity to lead the 'rebuild' (i.e. the rebuild made necessary by his cataclysmic incompetence). May as well settle in for another half-decade of Marky Mark and the F*cked-Up Bunch.

I have been a Canadiens fan since I was old enough to understand hockey as was my father before me and my son and daughter are carrying on the tradition. However, there is no way that I can continue to watch unless Bergevin has actually learned from his mistakes and given his comments before, and especially after, the Pacioretty trade, it doesn’t seem he has. Molson is really starting to worry me as he does not appear to realize that he is part of the problem 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I tend to agree with DON above...Molson seems to be committed to Bergevin despite his appalling track record. I have a feeling MB is going to be given a bona-fide opportunity to lead the 'rebuild' (i.e. the rebuild made necessary by his cataclysmic incompetence). May as well settle in for another half-decade of Marky Mark and the F*cked-Up Bunch.

 

I was listening to Pierre LeBrun on some radio show (it was a TSN show) and they were discussing the fact that Molson is very hands on at this point, and possibly the most hands on owner in the league. That Bergevin is just doing what Molson wants at this point and that's why he still has a job. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, while I love both as players, they both have contracts that preclude them getting moved to a "contender."  In perfect world, we are able to move them for assets to speed up the rebuild, but it is unlikely.  That said, both are still great players and will have a positive impact on the youngsters moving through the system.  Hopefully, the guys in front of them can keep it at least competitive so they don't get too discouraged too fast.  They both deserve better. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

First stage of this rebuild is almost done.

 

We finish bottom 10 this year, trade the usual suspects at the deadline, and we may have enough young talent and draft picks to start turning this ship around.

 

That being said, I can’t help but wonder if TO will take a run at Weber for the playoffs and then flip him in the offseason. He’s exactly what they need and they are gunning for #1.

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I was listening to Pierre LeBrun on some radio show (it was a TSN show) and they were discussing the fact that Molson is very hands on at this point, and possibly the most hands on owner in the league. That Bergevin is just doing what Molson wants at this point and that's why he still has a job. 

 

Hmmm. But to me, that's just more potentially bad news. I mean, what qualifies Molson to be giving anything more than very general strategic directives to his GM? He's basically a glorified fan. Meddling ownership is even more dangerous than a bad GM, because it continues long after that GM has been canned. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Hmmm. But to me, that's just more potentially bad news. I mean, what qualifies Molson to be giving anything more than very general strategic directives to his GM? He's basically a glorified fan. Meddling ownership is even more dangerous than a bad GM, because it continues long after that GM has been canned. 

 

The only moves in 2018 I have disliked are the Galchenyuk Domi trade and drafting Kotkaniemi. Everything else has been out of character for Bergevin and been good returns or acquisitions for us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

The only moves in 2018 I have disliked are the Galchenyuk Domi trade and drafting Kotkaniemi. Everything else has been out of character for Bergevin and been good returns or acquisitions for us.

 

So, that means you like the Patches trade, which makes sense...and what else - ? The Arnia pick-up? I like that too, but this is hardly a huge body of work.

 

I still have trouble here. You're implying that (basically) Geoff Molson is a quality NHL general manager. If this is true, then we're the luckiest fanbase in sport, to have an owner who is both interfering and an excellent hockey man. Obviously, my preference is that the owner hire a GM who can be trusted not to smash all the furniture and then leave him to do his job.

 

Now, if Molson is both calling the shots and making the right ones, maybe he is getting excellent hockey advice from some expert who knows the game. And if so, then that advisor should be made GM.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

So, that means you like the Patches trade, which makes sense...and what else - ? The Arnia pick-up? I like that too, but this is hardly a huge body of work.

 

I still have trouble here. You're implying that (basically) Geoff Molson is a quality NHL general manager. If this is true, then we're the luckiest fanbase in sport, to have an owner who is both interfering and an excellent hockey man. Obviously, my preference is that the owner hire a GM who can be trusted not to smash all the furniture and then leave him to do his job.

 

Now, if Molson is both calling the shots and making the right ones, maybe he is getting excellent hockey advice from some expert who knows the game. And if so, then that advisor should be made GM.

 

I'm just saying it hasn't been as bad as when Bergevin was trying to contend. When it was clear the 17-18 season was a bust Bergevin was angry and then he looked dejected and that's been his natural reaction since. 

 

The Galchenyuk trade was still dumb and we haven't seen enough guys replaced from Marc's golf crew but I don't feel the same as when Marc was the clear driver. It isn't an endorsement. Just an observation.

 

I think Geoff wants to be hands on so when he picks a future GM he actually knows what the job involves and won't leave the next candidates to Bergevin and McGuire. Or maybe he's going to be control hungry and be like Richard Peddie and JFJ. I don't know, but the damage control process has been fine for the most part. Much better than I thought it would be. 

 

As for liking the Pacioretty trade I'll just pop this question: what was the last time at the trade deadline a team got back a player with the ceiling of Suzuki and drafted as low as he was? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

The Galchenyuk trade was still dumb

Why? Might want to see Domi play one game at least before deciding on trade, no?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DON said:

Why? Might want to see Domi play one game at least before deciding on trade, no?

No.  Domi is worth less than galchenyuk.  I don’t need to drive a fiat  to know it’s not as good as a Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio.

 

i wouldn’t trade a corvette for an impala either.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

So, that means you like the Patches trade, which makes sense...and what else - ? The Arnia pick-up? I like that too, but this is hardly a huge body of work.

 

I still have trouble here. You're implying that (basically) Geoff Molson is a quality NHL general manager. If this is true, then we're the luckiest fanbase in sport, to have an owner who is both interfering and an excellent hockey man. Obviously, my preference is that the owner hire a GM who can be trusted not to smash all the furniture and then leave him to do his job.

 

Now, if Molson is both calling the shots and making the right ones, maybe he is getting excellent hockey advice from some expert who knows the game. And if so, then that advisor should be made GM.

Not exactly. We need a hockey ops VP or higher between Molson and Bergevin. As I said, in a previous post, an owner who doesn’t realize he is part of the problem is more of a problem than a semi-competent GM

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

No.  Domi is worth less than galchenyuk.  I don’t need to drive a fiat  to know it’s not as good as a Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio.

 

i wouldn’t trade a corvette for an impala either.

Sheesh, since when is Galchenyuk a concession player? 

He is at best a good 2nd line scoring winger and PP trigger man. but not an Alfa Romeo or Corvett... a Mustang ?!

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, PMAC said:

Not exactly. We need a hockey ops VP or higher between Molson and Bergevin. As I said, in a previous post, an owner who doesn’t realize he is part of the problem is more of a problem than a semi-competent GM

 

We both agree that ownership should not be making hockey calls. I like your last line too. But if we play with Machine's theory - rooted in credible media reports - that Molson is now supervising Bergevin, the question is how worried we should be. Hopefully the Kegmeister is getting good advice and just waiting to burn more of Bergevin's contract before hiring someone capable and backing off. 

 

8 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Sheesh, since when is Galchenyuk a concession player? 

He is at best a good 2nd line scoring winger and PP trigger man. but not an Alfa Romeo or Corvett... a Mustang ?!

 

Galy has a higher ceiling and can play C. For these reasons, the *very best* that can be said for the trade is that it's a lateral move. It's a Marc Bergevin special for that reason. If Galy succeeds at C in Arizona the trade will be a joke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Galy has a higher ceiling and can play C. For these reasons, the *very best* that can be said for the trade is that it's a lateral move. It's a Marc Bergevin special for that reason. If Galy succeeds at C in Arizona the trade will be a joke.

 

Max Domi is a 12th overall pick in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. In his post draft year he put up 93 points in 61 games for the London Knights. He had a strong rookie year with 18 goals and 52 points, but his numbers have declined since. In the following two seasons, he put up only 9 goals each season (9 in 59, 9 in 82) but last season he had a career high 36 assists.

 

Alex Galchenyuk is a 3rd overall pick in the 2012 NHL Entry Draft. In his post draft year he put up 61 points in 33 games for the Sarnia Sting. His best season so far was 30 goals and 56 points in 82 games. Max Domi has 36 goals in his NHL career. 

 

When you compare their last two seasons:

 

Domi: 141 games, 18 goals, 65 assists, 83 points

Galchenyuk: 143 games, 36 goals, 59 assists, 95 points

 

Basically: Domi has to find his rookie season numbers again while Galchenyuk just needs to outplay Dylan Strome for the 2C position. Failing that, the top LW in Arizona is Richard Panik, so he could take that spot pretty easily and still be a top line player. If Domi still can't score 10+ goals in a season, he shouldn't be anywhere near the top line.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Defining "success in ARZ" for Chucky is what we will not agree on on this board 

he will be a prolific 25-30 goal scorer there, I am sure; but that alone won't make him an elite concession player able to carry a team to the Stanley cup which is what 3rd overall should be able to do

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Defining "success in ARZ" for Chucky is what we will not agree on on this board 

he will be a prolific 25-30 goal scorer there, I am sure; but that alone won't make him an elite concession player able to carry a team to the Stanley cup which is what 3rd overall should be able to do

 

So you expect Kotkaniemi and Drouin to carry the Habs to the Cup because of their draft position?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...