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2018-19 NHL General Discussion Thread

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54 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

I agree with their ages, but Eberle was a key part of the Islanders playoffs and has been a consistent point producer, besides this season. 

 

Drouin's hockey IQ is an issue. He was a costly player this past season. 

 

So we are going to base things on Eberle's 8 games in the playoffs and not on his 37 points in 78 regular season games?  It seems to me that this is massively overrating a short hot streak.  Especially for a player who had 0 goals and 2 assists in 13 games in his other playoff appearance.  There is no such thing as clutch, don't overrate a player cause he was hot for 8 games, he is who he is, and what he's done over long sample sizes is who he is. 

 

Drouin has the skill to be better, and his slump at the end of the season came at an inopportune time.  He also might be more a second line player than the type of winger who carries a team's first line.  Thats all true.  Doesn't change the fact he's still better than Eberle right now.  Also doesn't change the fact that he has time to get better and is just starting his prime years, where Eberle probably isn't getting better, he is what he is at age 29. 

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50 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Eberle is a career .71ppg and Drouin is .60ppg

 

Wayne Gretzky is a career 1.92 ppg.  

If he came out of retirement at age 58, would you expect that to continue next year?

 

Yes, an absurd example, but it illustrates the point. 

You have a player who is 29, who is coming out of his prime years, and is showing that he has already had his prime years and is now on the decline.  You have another player who is 24 and just had the best season of his career and has room to improve.  I know which one I'm betting on over the next 4 years.  I'll take Drouin from 24-28, over Eberle from 29-33.
 

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I just think that Drouin has more upside than Eberle.  Drouin is 5 years younger , that's a big difference. I still think Drouin could be a heck of a player,  still only 24. Guy Lafleur had 3 mediocre years before finding his confidence. Not saying at all that Drouin will be that good but I think he has a chance to be a lot better than he has shown. 

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2 hours ago, DON said:

This is the guy who had all of 37pts last year and has averaged 49pts over last 3 years (and at 29 i doubt his game will improve from here on out)? Drouin did better even when his offense cratered in the 2nd half and majority of HabFans seem to just want him gone.

I had no idea his play dropped off that badly. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Wayne Gretzky is a career 1.92 ppg.  

If he came out of retirement at age 58, would you expect that to continue next year?

 

Yes, an absurd example, but it illustrates the point. 

You have a player who is 29, who is coming out of his prime years, and is showing that he has already had his prime years and is now on the decline.  You have another player who is 24 and just had the best season of his career and has room to improve.  I know which one I'm betting on over the next 4 years.  I'll take Drouin from 24-28, over Eberle from 29-33.
 

Giroux was done too, wasn't he? 58 points, guy is a write off. 102 pts the next season.... 

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1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

I agree with their ages, but Eberle was a key part of the Islanders playoffs and has been a consistent point producer, besides this season. 

 

Drouin's hockey IQ is an issue. He was a costly player this past season. 

 

Drouin was no where near as bad as the hyperbole suggests, he is at the moment, the frustratingly real example of why french Canadians don't want to play here, and the crap they very likely would end up dealing with. He is still very young and growing and maturing into the player he will be in his prime. He gets crapped on so much more than he should from fans and media, simply because he gets extra attention for being who he is on this team. He manages to average 50 point seasons as a 22 and 23 year old marred in positional experiments and confidence sapping situations, he is getting trashed left right and center for not being a player he never will be or has been. It is too much to expect any young player to deal with and succeed to his maximum capability, every turn over feels like you are costing a game 7 cup final, every failed back check makes you the laziest player in the league. Hilariously though, when the season finally derails and the player is completely without confidence and it shows every night, we still act so shocked and appalled, not once considering the kind of shitty environment we are creating for this one particular player. At some point, it just reaches an agonizing to hear, read, and watch level, I see a kid with an immensely high ceiling who plays the game in typical "highly talented enigmatic player" way. He is far from the first or only player torn from this cloth in the league, and for every time we crucify him for having a passive game or being crap defensively, he pulls out magical moments like his end to end OT winner among other things. 

 

Imagine if Florida had essentially given up on Huberdeau when he was 23 or 24 years old because he was too enigmatic and his work without the puck was lacking, how foolish would they look today? Players with a skill and talent ceiling you can hardly see when you look up, are way too risky to judge before the age of 26. Also, expecting a player who never was a 200 foot player, or a corner digger, to suddenly become one, is not putting him in a fair position, or one he can succeed in. Can he improve in those areas over time? Sure, but will they ever be strengths in his game? Not likely, his strength is the ability to pull off things few if any players on his team can, and on any given night, break a game open like only he can when he is on. It would be like the fans and media trashing Gallagher because he never goes end to end and dekes a few players out before scoring a goal  his game is lacking game breaker capability, therefore he must be whipped for it. Absurd isn't it? We are honestly sitting here right now, throwing him under the bus so hard, that we are talking about swapping him for a 31 year old who has averaged less points than he has in the last 2 seasons. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

Drouin was no where near as bad as the hyperbole suggests, he is at the moment, the frustratingly real example of why french Canadians don't want to play here, and the crap they very likely would end up dealing with. He is still very young and growing and maturing into the player he will be in his prime. He gets crapped on so much more than he should from fans and media, simply because he gets extra attention for being who he is on this team. He manages to average 50 point seasons as a 22 and 23 year old marred in positional experiments and confidence sapping situations, he is getting trashed left right and center for not being a player he never will be or has been. It is too much to expect any young player to deal with and succeed to his maximum capability, every turn over feels like you are costing a game 7 cup final, every failed back check makes you the laziest player in the league. Hilariously though, when the season finally derails and the player is completely without confidence and it shows every night, we still act so shocked and appalled, not once considering the kind of shitty environment we are creating for this one particular player. At some point, it just reaches an agonizing to hear, read, and watch level, I see a kid with an immensely high ceiling who plays the game in typical "highly talented enigmatic player" way. He is far from the first or only player torn from this cloth in the league, and for every time we crucify him for having a passive game or being crap defensively, he pulls out magical moments like his end to end OT winner among other things. 

 

Imagine if Florida had essentially given up on Huberdeau when he was 23 or 24 years old because he was too enigmatic and his work without the puck was lacking, how foolish would they look today? Players with a skill and talent ceiling you can hardly see when you look up, are way too risky to judge before the age of 26. Also, expecting a player who never was a 200 foot player, or a corner digger, to suddenly become one, is not putting him in a fair position, or one he can succeed in. Can he improve in those areas over time? Sure, but will they ever be strengths in his game? Not likely, his strength is the ability to pull off things few if any players on his team can, and on any given night, break a game open like only he can when he is on. It would be like the fans and media trashing Gallagher because he never goes end to end and dekes a few players out before scoring a goal  his game is lacking game breaker capability, therefore he must be whipped for it. Absurd isn't it? We are honestly sitting here right now, throwing him under the bus so hard, that we are talking about swapping him for a 31 year old who has averaged less points than he has in the last 2 seasons. 

 

 

 

Breath bud. Eberle turned 29 a month ago. 

 

Drouin is a Hab, Eberle isn't. So I hope for the best from Drouin... I just saw how many costly plays Drouin made last season and how many times he would turn the puck over after trying to dangle through the entire opposing team. Then turn into a huge baby, and make a dog ass line change because he was mad. 

 

I don't LOVE Drouin because of his character. 3 points in his last 18 games is rough, but it's more about the IQ and compete level. 

 

Edited by Habber31
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1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

Giroux was done too, wasn't he? 58 points, guy is a write off. 102 pts the next season.... 

 

There are exceptions to every rule.  But if you want to bet on guys having career years at 29 and older... you are going to be wrong more often than you are right.  Thats why id bet on drouin over the next 4 years to be better than Eberle will be in the same 4 year span 

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Statistically, what are the most productive/peak ages for offensive production, for forwards? 26-to-28?

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The trouble with Drouin is that, yes, he's 24, but he is also had five years in the league (four of them as a full-time player) and his production is no better now than in his rookie year. At some point you have to say 'well, he's never going to figure it out.' I'm not saying to close the book him or that he absolutely will never put it together. But I am saying that the preponderance of evidence so far is that he is more likely to be Andrei Kostitsyn or Alex Galchenyuk than Guy Lafleur Lite. The Kosty/Galy parallel suggests itself because those were also talented players who basically flatlined rather than evolved as NHLers, and what all three have in common is that they play an individual game rather than seeing the whole ice, reading the play, and using their teammates. You can have all the tools in the world, but if you lack hockey sense, then you've got no toolbox. 

 

Eberle is another story and I agree I wouldn't trade Drouin for him. But if I were a betting man, I'd bet on Drouin never becoming a whole lot more than he is right now.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The trouble with Drouin is that, yes, he's 24, but he is also had five years in the league (four of them as a full-time player) and his production is no better now than in his rookie year. At some point you have to say 'well, he's never going to figure it out.' I'm not saying to close the book him or that he absolutely will never put it together. But I am saying that the preponderance of evidence so far is that he is more likely to be Andrei Kostitsyn or Alex Galchenyuk than Guy Lafleur Lite. The Kosty/Galy parallel suggests itself because those were also talented players who basically flatlined rather than evolved as NHLers, and what all three have in common is that they play an individual game rather than seeing the whole ice, reading the play, and using their teammates. You can have all the tools in the world, but if you lack hockey sense, then you've got no toolbox. 

 

Eberle is another story and I agree I wouldn't trade Drouin for him. But if I were a betting man, I'd bet on Drouin never becoming a whole lot more than he is right now.

Age is an issue with drouin and Eberle, no question. 

 

Maybe Drouin will put it all together, or maybe not. This might be Drouin's ceiling, and there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe when people (me) accept that this is Jonathan Drouin, it will be a little easier to take the good with the bad. :spamafote:

 

Edited by Habber31
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Gallagher last year, same production as rookie year 0.64pts/gm and fewer points than Drouin. So even if havent figured out how to be a hard worker with consistent effort like Gallagher, he is still a skilled player and hopefully he can use demotion to 4th line as bit of inspiration this summer and somehow become a better team player who doesnt coast to bench at end of shifts or give up so many dangerous turnovers trying to be too cute.

 

But, i wouldnt take that bet and 50 some points is what likely to see again next year.

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Statistically, what are the most productive/peak ages for offensive production, for forwards? 26-to-28?

 

23 to 28

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14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

23 to 28

23 eh? that young

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30 minutes ago, DON said:

23 eh? that young

 

Yup and its getting younger in recent years. 

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