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dlbalr

Apr. 4, Habs vs Capitals, 7 PM

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Posted (edited)

Well, that sucks.

 

but entertaining game for sure.

Edited by DON
2nd thought

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13 minutes ago, DON said:

but entertaining game for sure.

 

Better than that. Overall, an entertaining season: I really enjoyed watching this team, as frustrating as some games were.

 

We are not far from a solid playoff team, and we have cap space and some good young talent coming up. I look forward to some more entertaining seasons!

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If columbus wins tomorrow, 

 

throw poehling in there 

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Despite the worst possible outcome - no playoffs and the worst lottery odds - this team was way better than expected and played solid hockey throughout the year.  To think that we made the conference finals off an 88 point year in 2010.   Hopefully Bergevin has the midas touch again this summer.

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16 minutes ago, Neech said:

Despite the worst possible outcome - no playoffs and the worst lottery odds - this team was way better than expected and played solid hockey throughout the year.  To think that we made the conference finals off an 88 point year in 2010.   Hopefully Bergevin has the midas touch again this summer.

I would have preferred a better draft position.., this team has a ways to go.

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13 minutes ago, brobin said:

I would have preferred a better draft position.., this team has a ways to go.

 

This team is way too deep to compete with the Detroits and Ottawas of the league for last overall.  It's hard to see a path to contention though.  I was on the tank train for the first half of the year, and that probably would have been better in the long run, but at least this was a pretty fun season with some great performances. Domi, Petry, Danault, Gallagher, and Tatar all played like key cogs that any playoff team would covet (if not the superstar talent that Montreal tends to lack).  We just need Kotka, Suzuki and Poehling to step in next year and combine for 150 points!

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2 hours ago, Neech said:

Despite the worst possible outcome - no playoffs and the worst lottery odds - this team was way better than expected and played solid hockey throughout the year.  To think that we made the conference finals off an 88 point year in 2010.   Hopefully Bergevin has the midas touch again this summer.

Colour it like you will but we finish in the bottom half of league. I expect we will play better next year as well. You got to account for the teams around us getting better as well. I hope MB has the balls to wear this and not put the blame on attitude as opposed to talent.

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3 hours ago, Neech said:

Despite the worst possible outcome - no playoffs and the worst lottery odds - this team was way better than expected and played solid hockey throughout the year.  To think that we made the conference finals off an 88 point year in 2010.   Hopefully Bergevin has the midas touch again this summer.

I'm with you on this one Neech

 

This team is fun to watch again and the prospect forwards look good

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10 hours ago, Chris said:

If columbus wins tomorrow, 

 

throw poehling in there 

Agreed, give him one game to show what he needs to prepare for next season. 

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8 hours ago, BlueKross said:

Colour it like you will but we finish in the bottom half of league. I expect we will play better next year as well. You got to account for the teams around us getting better as well. I hope MB has the balls to wear this and not put the blame on attitude as opposed to talent.

 

MB won't have to wear any blame; as I predicted at the end of last season, he has successfully deflated expectations to the point where the fanbase is satisfied with 'improvement' and excited for the future, even though - right now at least - there is little reason to think the organization is positioned to grow into a contender.

 

At least the club is no longer a disaster. Now we need MB to have at least one more home-run off-season (and probably more than that) if our future is going to look any better than the past 25 years of mediocrity.

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11 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

Better than that. Overall, an entertaining season: I really enjoyed watching this team, as frustrating as some games were.

 

We are not far from a solid playoff team, and we have cap space and some good young talent coming up. I look forward to some more entertaining seasons!

Agree.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

MB won't have to wear any blame; as I predicted at the end of last season, he has successfully deflated expectations to the point where the fanbase is satisfied with 'improvement' and excited for the future, even though - right now at least - there is little reason to think the organization is positioned to grow into a contender.

 

At least the club is no longer a disaster. Now we need MB to have at least one more home-run off-season (and probably more than that) if our future is going to look any better than the past 25 years of mediocrity.

 

He sure as hell wears blame from where I am sitting.  I've begun my post-mortem on the season, and when looking at some of our key losses in games where we got very good goaltending...it's glaringly obvioius that our top 6 is a big problem.  You cannot have both Drouin and Byron in your top 6...you can make do with one, but on a GOOD team one has to be a 3rd liner depending on who's playing better at the time.  Bergevin MUST add a 30 goal scorer to that top 6, or we will continue to see great performances by Carey Price wasted due to a lack of goal support.  He had the cap space to do it last summer, and failed.  If he fails to utilize that cap space to get at least one of the two pieces this team desperately needs (that top 6 goalscorer or a LD that is a PP quarterback), he doesn't deserve the job.

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1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

 

He sure as hell wears blame from where I am sitting.  I've begun my post-mortem on the season, and when looking at some of our key losses in games where we got very good goaltending...it's glaringly obvioius that our top 6 is a big problem.  You cannot have both Drouin and Byron in your top 6...you can make do with one, but on a GOOD team one has to be a 3rd liner depending on who's playing better at the time.  Bergevin MUST add a 30 goal scorer to that top 6, or we will continue to see great performances by Carey Price wasted due to a lack of goal support.  He had the cap space to do it last summer, and failed.  If he fails to utilize that cap space to get at least one of the two pieces this team desperately needs (that top 6 goalscorer or a LD that is a PP quarterback), he doesn't deserve the job.

 

The Drouin trade increasingly looks absolutely horrible. He's one of those guys whose numbers occlude what are really profound weaknesses. That was a major move - a trade involving assets that are structurally critical to the organization - and MB completely blew it. So you're right to draw attention to that.

 

But building on this, the top priority is not a goal-scorer, it's acquiring exactly the kind of player Sergachev projects to become, i.e., high-end LD who can move the puck and manufacture offence. Such a player will help to make the entire FW unit look better, as is always true of top-pairing puck-moving defencemen. We need to start there, IMHO. (As I've said before, I would even settle for signing Karlsson, a RD, and then moving Petry for other help).

 

Beyond that, we also need upgrades at FW. The team has good pieces up front; it's just that the unit as a whole is nothing special. Many people believe that Suzuki and Poehling, along with KK's progression, will provide the needed upgrade. I agree they will likely represent an overall upgrade; but since even KK and Suzuki do not seem to project less as high-end future stars than as quality top-3 guys, I'm not convinced they will translate into contender status. Otherwise put, the Habs have good prospects, but so do most other teams. There does not seem to be anything particularly exceptional about our talent pool, and therefore there seems to be no obvious reason to anticipate our having a particularly exceptional team down the road.

 

 

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I don't get where it comes from that MB has apparently lowered expectations.

 

At or around the trade deadline, Columbus added Duchene, Dzingel, Mcquaid,  etc., Carolina added a sure fire top 6 player in Neiderreitter and Montreal added Thompson, Weal, Weise, Folin.

 

I've been extremely happy with 3 of those 4 acquisitions but we're the only team who didn't address our top 6 out of the three.  

 

Most people on here, and in general, were fine with a lack of movement. Stating reasons such as ''we shouldn't mortgage our future when a team like Tampa of 2019 exists.'' 

 

If this is what is meant by MB having apparently lowered our expectations, then I can agree.  But I'm pretty sure it's not because the same people were praising MB in this scenario. The same people who are saying MB has lowered expectations were also saying we should not do much to improve our team at this year's deadline.

 

I personally would have expected more at the deadline. Not simply because we were a team who was on the fringe of making the playoffs.  Nor was it only because other teams we were fighting with for a spot were making moves.  It wasn't even because I like to complain at every deadline.  It was because the team was performing well this year,  and a move that actually added to our offensive power could have rewarded our team for their strong play and boosted them emotionally.  

 

I personally feel that the Habs have been emotionally involved so it's not like a trade deadline move would have done anything extraordinary. I was just personally disappointed,  and still think to this day we could have had perhaps an easier time making the playoffs had a player who has performed as well as Neiderreitter has since his arrival in Carolina been added to our team. 

 

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying my expectations have not been lowered. 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The Drouin trade increasingly looks absolutely horrible. He's one of those guys whose numbers occlude what are really profound weaknesses. That was a major move - a trade involving assets that are structurally critical to the organization - and MB completely blew it. So you're right to draw attention to that.

 

But building on this, the top priority is not a goal-scorer, it's acquiring exactly the kind of player Sergachev projects to become, i.e., high-end LD who can move the puck and manufacture offence. Such a player will help to make the entire FW unit look better, as is always true of top-pairing puck-moving defencemen. We need to start there, IMHO. (As I've said before, I would even settle for signing Karlsson, a RD, and then moving Petry for other help).

 

 

 

 

I don't think the book is written on Drouin.  He seems to care and he just turned 24.  This may not make up for his apparent cluelessness and utter lack of hockey sense, but I still feel like he could have a Kovy-like redemption arc, provided the right organizational support.  Now, I have no idea if we have the coaching infrastructure to work one-on-one with a skilled player on his deficits.

 

Sergachev, on the other hand, would have helped with the tank this year.  I wouldn't be surprised if Tampa benches him in the playoffs, just because he always seems to make glaring defensive blunders whenever I watch him.  He definitely has the higher ceiling of the two players, however, and our defense sorely needs his skillset.      

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Droiun is a 50-60 point overpaid player who is soft and in not a game changer. 

 

He is who he is, i would not have moved Sergachev for him but that's just me

 

Drouin has been MIA the last 25 games, when the going gets tough, players like Drouin become invisible

 

 

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I don't get where it comes from that MB has apparently lowered expectations.

 

At or around the trade deadline, Columbus added Duchene, Dzingel, Mcquaid,  etc., Carolina added a sure fire top 6 player in Neiderreitter and Montreal added Thompson, Weal, Weise, Folin.

 

I've been extremely happy with 3 of those 4 acquisitions but we're the only team who didn't address our top 6 out of the three.  

 

Most people on here, and in general, were fine with a lack of movement. Stating reasons such as ''we shouldn't mortgage our future when a team like Tampa of 2019 exists.'' 

 

If this is what is meant by MB having apparently lowered our expectations, then I can agree.  But I'm pretty sure it's not because the same people were praising MB in this scenario. The same people who are saying MB has lowered expectations were also saying we should not do much to improve our team at this year's deadline.

 

I personally would have expected more at the deadline. Not simply because we were a team who was on the fringe of making the playoffs.  Nor was it only because other teams we were fighting with for a spot were making moves.  It wasn't even because I like to complain at every deadline.  It was because the team was performing well this year,  and a move that actually added to our offensive power could have rewarded our team for their strong play and boosted them emotionally.  

 

I personally feel that the Habs have been emotionally involved so it's not like a trade deadline move would have done anything extraordinary. I was just personally disappointed,  and still think to this day we could have had perhaps an easier time making the playoffs had a player who has performed as well as Neiderreitter has since his arrival in Carolina been added to our team. 

 

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying my expectations have not been lowered. 

 

I don't mean the trade deadline. I mean in general. He has succeeded in lowering our expectations to the point where many fans are satisfied with a fun-to-watch spirited team that misses the playoffs and has a solid but not extraordinary prospect pool. He's been in charge since 2012-13 and took a team that was knocking on the door (2014) and turned it into one that has missed the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons, with a first-round exit to the non-contending Rangers in the other year. As Neech says, "it's hard to see a path to contention" from where we are. And yet most fans are fairly happy. Why? Because we bottomed out so badly last year that this year looks great in comparison; and because a lot of Habs fans no longer even seem to think in terms of actually building a champion. 

 

46 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

I don't think the book is written on Drouin.  He seems to care and he just turned 24.  This may not make up for his apparent cluelessness and utter lack of hockey sense, but I still feel like he could have a Kovy-like redemption arc, provided the right organizational support.  Now, I have no idea if we have the coaching infrastructure to work one-on-one with a skilled player on his deficits.

 

Sergachev, on the other hand, would have helped with the tank this year.  I wouldn't be surprised if Tampa benches him in the playoffs, just because he always seems to make glaring defensive blunders whenever I watch him.  He definitely has the higher ceiling of the two players, however, and our defense sorely needs his skillset.      

 

I agree, more or less; I didn't say Drouin IS a failure, I just said he "increasingly" looks like one, which I think stands up. And I agree with you on Sergy.

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8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't mean the trade deadline. I mean in general. He has succeeded in lowering our expectations to the point where many fans are satisfied with a fun-to-watch spirited team that misses the playoffs and has a solid but not extraordinary prospect pool. He's been in charge since 2012-13 and took a team that was knocking on the door (2014) and turned it into one that has missed the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons, with a first-round exit to the non-contending Rangers in the other year. As Neech says, "it's hard to see a path to contention" from where we are. And yet most fans are fairly happy. Why? Because we bottomed out so badly last year that this year looks great in comparison; and because a lot of Habs fans no longer even seem to think in terms of actually building a champion. 

 

 

I agree, more or less; I didn't say Drouin IS a failure, I just said he "increasingly" looks like one, which I think stands up. And I agree with you on Sergy.

 

 

Two things on Drouin

 

1) the trade is a failure, giving up a top defensive prospect for a guy who ends up a second line winger, was a bad move. Even if Sergachev had a rough season at age 20. 

2) Drouin at his current salary, for his current production, is not a liability.  He's paid appropriately for a second line forward, so I think we have to live with that as we arent reversing the trade and you dont want to move him at depressed value

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12 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't mean the trade deadline. I mean in general. He has succeeded in lowering our expectations to the point where many fans are satisfied with a fun-to-watch spirited team that misses the playoffs and has a solid but not extraordinary prospect pool. He's been in charge since 2012-13 and took a team that was knocking on the door (2014) and turned it into one that has missed the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons, with a first-round exit to the non-contending Rangers in the other year. As Neech says, "it's hard to see a path to contention" from where we are. And yet most fans are fairly happy. Why? Because we bottomed out so badly last year that this year looks great in comparison; and because a lot of Habs fans no longer even seem to think in terms of actually building a champion. 

 

You have captured this pretty close. My biggest peeve is that MB didn't take his share of blame last year and despite positives going forward, we are not close to where we need to be. MB's tenure is still on notice as far as I am concerned.

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This year’s team overperformed, that seems like concencus opinion around here.

With thé lack of truly elite (game breaking talent) prospects (I do like our prospects but none are going to be elite to the point thy step in next year and provide significant improvement) I don’t see any improvement next year. More likely I see a regression to the mean, the career year players will probably level off so I predict another playoff miss next year. 

MB should be to blame, when the coach is beyond reproach (whether right or not) and the players are all playing above expectations you must look to the architect for blame. 

 

Speakig of coach.

Is this coach the guy we want nurturing some young talent? Does his history support the development of young players? 

 

Goaltending:

CP31 is great but he cost us points early on that resulted in no playoffs, he was brutal for first half. Literally lost us easy points early on.

Upgrade at backup goalie required. Who cares about egos, we need a talented, hungry backup who will take any opportunity and run with it.

worst case, CP31 plays less/year and actually lasts until his contract ends.

 

forwards:

Inabilty to produce consistent offense, yet again. Upgrades at top 6 required.

 

d:

insufficient depth in top 4 dmen, upgrades required. 

 

Soecial teams:

Complete garbage power play, upgrade at top 6/coaching staff required.

 

Im quite sure this breakdown could apply to many of the past years’ teams so again I place blame on executive team (GM/owner) for not assembling a winner. It is particularly bothersome when you also consider the cap room and outcry for improvements,and  the mishandling of Markov/Radu. 

 

Imagine we’d had Marky playing limited 5 on 5 but PP specialist, and Radu is still on team. Perhaps with Radu still on board, we’d have kept Sergachev  and not gone after Drouin in this scenario, boom our top six is better, left D is all of a sudden excellent. 

 

Wow, ramble and ramble.

 

saw half of games this year. About half of those were brutal, other half the team played over the expectations and stymied opposition with speed/goaltending. 

While I love to see w’s and did get excited this year, once I step back and take a look at big picture I realize there is little reason to expect any significant change in results in the near future. 

Hopefully I’’m wrong but history tells me Management will continue to lead us down a path of mediocrity. 

 

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Who's taking the GDT for tonight?  Poehling makes his debut and Lindgren's getting the start.

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19 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't mean the trade deadline. I mean in general. He has succeeded in lowering our expectations to the point where many fans are satisfied with a fun-to-watch spirited team that misses the playoffs and has a solid but not extraordinary prospect pool. He's been in charge since 2012-13 and took a team that was knocking on the door (2014) and turned it into one that has missed the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons, with a first-round exit to the non-contending Rangers in the other year. As Neech says, "it's hard to see a path to contention" from where we are. And yet most fans are fairly happy. Why? Because we bottomed out so badly last year that this year looks great in comparison; and because a lot of Habs fans no longer even seem to think in terms of actually building a champion.

I agree that some fans are fairly happy at how the season has transpired.  I don't think Bergevin has successfully lowered our expectations though.  The Habs have had a good season in and of itself. 

 

The thing is that I equate this year's trade deadline with exactly what you are describing. Most fans on here were accepting of the fact that Bergevin didn't mortgage the future. Tampa Bay exists,  so why bother? I'm sure you were in that boat as well from what I remember and that's nothing personal, because the majority were,  and still are in that same boat when it comes to this year's trade deadline.  There's an argument to be made that standing relatively pat at the deadline outside of a few solid depth moves was the correct choice. 

 

My perspective is different though.  Standing pat is where we allow ourselves to accept mediocrity.  Saving 9 million dollars in any given season, let alone multiple is nothing short of guaranteeing that one's squad will not achieve the ultimate goal.  I think those who were fine with nothing more at the deadline are those who accept mediocrity in many cases. I understand I'm in the minority and don't mean to sound offensive. 

 

On the other hand,  I don't think we accept mediocrity by giving credit to a good year.  If anyone should end up being content this year despite the Habs (potentially) missing the playoffs,  it's because the Habs are actually a decent team this year. 

 

It's true that fans may be content being a bubble team rather than being a heavy contender simply because we were so terrible last year.  I don't agree that fans are accepting mediocrity in general though:

 

1) We played well this year regardless of last year. 

 

2) I'm pretty pissed we missed the playoffs. 

 

Those who aren't pissed are generally the same ones who wouldn't have expected anything more at this year's deadline.  In their eyes Bergevin did the right thing by not overpaying at the deadline because we will be a better team in the long-term.  If this is indeed true,  then there is nothing wrong with what MB is doing in the present. His past will never change,  but there would be no specific reason to bring it up now. 

 

Columbus is a team who no longer ''accepts'' mediocrity (this year). And yet they were chastized by many on here. Again, nothing personal, but by yourself included. Had Bergevin made those moves himself, the narrative that he is simply brainwashing us into accepting mediocrity wouldn't be present.

 

One could argue that you're looking at things at a macro level whereas I keep emphasizing this year,  but I don't get the dichotomy between fans being content with the way Bergevin was patient this year,  as if to say it was the right thing to do,  and then turning their head and stating that fans are simply happy with missing the playoffs by 0 points and that we aren't focused on building a champion. It doesn't seem a fitting time to mention it,  at least. It's very arguable that the difference this year between Carolina,  Montreal,  and Columbus, is that two of the three teams went for it a little bit more at the deadline. That being said,  the Habs have played relatively well as of late, anyway. 

 

My final statement, because I know where the conversation could lead,  is that the Habs may not be a heavy duty contender, but they could do better in the playoffs than most people give them credit for. I don't agree that whenever we slip in, even at 8th seed,  that we'll automatically get annilhated in a 7 game series. That would have included this year. 

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Gentlemen, I have to say this has been a good discussion!

 

ON a different note, what really worries me for next year is that we had 7 players who had CAREER years in 2018-2019. What are the odds they will have career years again in 2019-2020?

Will Domi put up another 70 point season?

Will Gallagher score 30 again?

Will Danault get 50 points and dominate in the faceoff circle?

Will Tatar score 25 and get 60 points?

 

Also, the Habs were spared major injuries to key players this year (With the exception of Weber). Will we be as lucky next year?

 

Lastly, Can Bergevin find that elusive d-man to play with Weber or maybe find another top 6 forward?

 

A few tweaks could ut us over the top for next year, but nothing is guaranteed yet!

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4 hours ago, dlbalr said:

Who's taking the GDT for tonight?  Poehling makes his debut and Lindgren's getting the start.

 

So...anyone?

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Subban Markov and Radulov should be getting more ice time. 

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