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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

POLL: How do you feel about the future?

Optimism, pessimism, or skepticism: rate the Habs' future!  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. 2018-19 is over. Thinking about a five-year window, what's your feeling about where the Habs are headed?

    • They will win the Cup within five years. Book it.
      1
    • They are firmly on the path becoming top-tier contenders
      19
    • They will evolve into a competitive playoff team with an outside chance of winning if everything goes just right (much like they were from 2007-2015)
      17
    • They'll likely be a bubble team going forward
      1
    • They'll regress next season with no clear path to success beyond that
      2
    • Other (explain!)
      0


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Karlsson only had 2 primary assists last night and led the Sharks in ice time. What an injured bum.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the debate around Karlsson, and the underlying thought that Petry is "good enough" thus the Habs don't need to improve. The fact that we're comparing Petry and Karlsson seems a bit weird to me, never mind Karlsson played 29 fewer games. That's like saying we couldn't use a Taylor Hall because Lehkonon scored as many goals.

 

I guess if the point is not to improve the team, the Habs shouldn't show an interest in him. I don't have any realistic belief that he'd sign here, but to not aggressively pursue would be absurd.

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4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

In Petry we are getting what Karlson would provide in his current "damaged goods" status.

 

There are better options for that cap space

 

No, Karlsson is far better than Petry.

 

Come on now.

 

Thats even with ignoring the fact that we have the cap space to afford both.

Karlsson playing on his wrong side would still be great. 

 

Karlsson - Weber

Mete - Petry
Kulak - Juulsen

and then a cheap #7 Dman like Folin or another replacement. 

 

 

 

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I don't think there is any question that if you can land a Karlsson as a UFA for 10-11m, you take that all day. I also believe Bergevin will make an offer if he is still available, it's just a matter if Karlsson would consider Montreal as a destination. Have to assume the Sharks will try to resign him after giving up all those assets to acquire him and I don't blame Karlsson if he doesn't want to leave sunny San Jose

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27 minutes ago, illWill said:

I don't think there is any question that if you can land a Karlsson as a UFA for 10-11m, you take that all day. I also believe Bergevin will make an offer if he is still available, it's just a matter if Karlsson would consider Montreal as a destination. Have to assume the Sharks will try to resign him after giving up all those assets to acquire him and I don't blame Karlsson if he doesn't want to leave sunny San Jose

 

Indeed. Still, he hasn't been signed yet, so that's a good sign; and as I say above, he has some connection to the Ottawa/Montreal region. And with 96 points and a youthful team, the Habs can now present themselves as up-and-comers. I'm not saying we're a shoo-in to sign him, but I would resist the traditional pessimism which says that we have no chance to sign top-name UFAs (a pessimism I always felt was overblown anyway). I think we have a chance.

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Florida Panthers could be a good choice for him. No taxes. Quenville now coaching. Relative anonymity.  Amazing center to play with.

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45 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 I think we have a chance.

Who you trying to kid?

Habs have a much better chance of winning cup next year than signing Karlsson.

I am sure we have "a chance" of adding many all star calibre players and in fantasyland it sounds dandy, but get real sir.  A Cam Fowler or Jake Bean-calibre player is more reasonable or likely add to discuss.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, DON said:

Who you trying to kid?

Habs have a much better chance of winning cup next year than signing Karlsson.

I am sure we have "a chance" of adding many all star calibre players and in fantasyland it sounds dandy, but get real sir.  A Cam Fowler or Jake Bean-calibre player is more reasonable or likely add to discuss.

 

 

 

Well...WHY do we have no chance, exactly - ?

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Doesn't Karlsson play the right side? 

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3 hours ago, DON said:

Who you trying to kid?

Habs have a much better chance of winning cup next year than signing Karlsson.

I am sure we have "a chance" of adding many all star calibre players and in fantasyland it sounds dandy, but get real sir.  A Cam Fowler or Jake Bean-calibre player is more reasonable or likely add to discuss.

 

 

 

Don, saying we have no chance, in itself, is wrong to begin with. We may have only a slim chance, but we do have a chance, because..

 

A. We have the cap space to offer him the dollars he would likely be looking for without having to deconstruct the current roster to make room for it, not many other teams in this position at all..

B. Proximity to the area he has played most of his career, facilitating his personal family and friends situation.

C. We have a team on the rise that is clear for anyone to see, hoping on the wave while it is gaining momentum is obviously easier than where the wave was at last summer.

D. He would be walking into a situation where he plays a forefront role of major importance, would be a part of one of the most revered pairings in the league, the team's style of play fits perfectly with his own, and it is back to eastern conference hockey which he is familiar with and already thrived in.

 

Unlikely? Yes, No Chance? Not unless we are literally blocked from even speaking to him, which as far as I know, is not the case at the moment. People are just expressing how the opportunity to try for a home run fix is on the table this summer, and how great it would be to have him here in our current situation. No one is saying it is just a formality, a done deal, or even a likely scenario. In fact most who are excited at the thought of Karlsson being on the roster know how improbable it might be, but not impossible, and most certainly worth one hell of a try. We have to get out of this summer knowing for sure, that we tried everything we could to get him here, and either he comes here or he just simply chose not to, anything less would be a grotesque miscalculation.

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3 hours ago, Link67 said:

 would be a grotesque miscalculation.

That sounds interesting.:D

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Offer sheet 11.5 mill to marner if Karlsson doesn't bite.

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7 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Florida Panthers could be a good choice for him. No taxes. Quenville now coaching. Relative anonymity.  Amazing center to play with.

 

Florida are getting bob and panarin.  Doubt there will be money for him too.

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On 4/11/2019 at 1:26 PM, Commandant said:

 

No, Karlsson is far better than Petry.

 

Come on now.

 

Thats even with ignoring the fact that we have the cap space to afford both.

Karlsson playing on his wrong side would still be great. 

 

Karlsson - Weber

Mete - Petry
Kulak - Juulsen

and then a cheap #7 Dman like Folin or another replacement. 

 

 

 

This year:

Karlsson:  (GP) 53 (G)  3 (A) 42  (PTS) 45 +/- 6    (TOI) 24:29 (CF%) 59.3

Petry      :  (GP) 82 (G) 13 (A) 33 (PTS) 46 +/- -5   (TOI) 23:07 (CF%) 55.5

 

I would not commit to the contract Karlsson would be looking for when we will be getting similar production from Petry.

 

Karlsson is more talented, but his best years are behind him.

 

I much rather look for a top-3 NHL LD under 29 years old, regardless of cap hit.

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35 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

This year:

Karlsson:  (GP) 53 (G)  3 (A) 42  (PTS) 45 +/- 6    (TOI) 24:29 (CF%) 59.3

Petry      :  (GP) 82 (G) 13 (A) 33 (PTS) 46 +/- -5   (TOI) 23:07 (CF%) 55.5

 

I would not commit to the contract Karlsson would be looking for when we will be getting similar production from Petry.

 

Karlsson is more talented, but his best years are behind him.

 

I much rather look for a top-3 NHL LD under 29 years old, regardless of cap hit.

You do realize that this "similar level of production" was done in 29 less games by Karlsson, right ?

29 as in twenty-nine.

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

You do realize that this "similar level of production" was done in 29 less games by Karlsson, right ?

29 as in twenty-nine.

Yes, I know how to count, one, two, 3, ..., 28, 29

:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

You do realize that this "similar level of production" was done in 29 less games by Karlsson, right ?

Yes, he missed 5gms 3yrs ago, then 11gms 2yrs ago then 29- as in 35% of NHL season last year. Which isnt an encouraging trend, when handing him a mega deal taking him to old-timer softball age.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Yes, he missed 5gms 3yrs ago, then 11gms 2yrs ago then 29- as in 35% of NHL season last year. Which isnt an encouraging trend, when handing him a mega deal taking him to old-timer softball age.

Injuries happen. You cant right him off. Price missed tons of hockey over the last few seasons but seems fine. If he will sign here it is a no brainer. If is the question. 

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Yes, he missed 5gms 3yrs ago, then 11gms 2yrs ago then 29- as in 35% of NHL season last year. Which isnt an encouraging trend, when handing him a mega deal taking him to old-timer softball age.

 

 

Yeah, because Gallagher has really been trending badly after his 2 years in a row of half seasons due to hand injuries, really wish he wasn't signed long beyond that, I mean how much more good hockey could he have left with lobster claws right? Hahahahaha....oh wait.

 

Injuries happen, great players find ways to come back from them and remain who they are, Elite players, even more so. So tell me, how do you think Karlsson will play during the games he does play in? and are you prepared to potentially watch him have a 77 game season else where at nearly a PPG knowing you were too shy to go all in for an elite caliber player like him over some missed games the last couple of seasons? Imagine we had traded Gallagher as damaged goods after his injury riddled seasons, how would that look for us today if he was doing what he is doing now elsewhere? Absolutely foolish is the answer. 

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7 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

You do realize that this "similar level of production" was done in 29 less games by Karlsson, right ?

29 as in twenty-nine.

2


There is that,
 

There is Also the fact that a 4% difference in CF% is massive. 

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5 hours ago, DON said:

Yes, he missed 5gms 3yrs ago, then 11gms 2yrs ago then 29- as in 35% of NHL season last year. Which isnt an encouraging trend, when handing him a mega deal taking him to old-timer softball age.

 

I heard the same thing about Markov when he came back from his knee injuries. 

 

After he came back in 2012, how did he hold up?

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Sign Karlsson and trade Weber  for lucic and draisaitl. 

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On 4/9/2019 at 8:36 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

What is the path, though? Developing young players - ? That's fine, I agree. But if your young players are, as a whole, not strikingly better than other organizations', then there is no particular reason to think you're 'firmly on the path to becoming contenders.' Our most elite talents are still, as far as I can see, an aging Weber and the admirable but not-eternal Carey Price, and there seems to be no reason  to believe that anyone in the system stands to have a career on the level of either of those guys. A crop of good-not-great players likely translates into a good-not-great team. For this reason, I believe that the realistic choice on this poll is 'competitive playoff team with an outside chance.' 

 

Now if we go out an add a massive talent like Karlsson, well, that'll change the picture. But right now, I think the optimists are allowing hope to trump objectivity. 

 

One thing to go back on this as I watch the playoffs. 

 

The more I watch, the more I think Vegas is going to come out of the West AGAIN.

 

This is a team that proves the path we are going down can be successful.  Four solid lines, but no elite superstars, just really good players and lots of speed.  Same on the blueline.  And then their goalie is top notch (though older).

 

We took a step towards replicating that style of play this year amongst our forward group.  We need to improve the defence corps, but the Vegas blue print proves that a deep 23-man team can do damage, even without an elite talent. 

 

And thats without acknowledging that Price and Weber are still elite talent, and that Kotkaniemi might be that type of two-way centre soon (As i stated in another post). 

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Optimistic abut next year for sure.

 

Biggest question, what valuable piece(s), that will be painful to lose, will it cost to round out the top 4 d-men and put at least one quality (no disrespect to Mete but...) guy on the left side.

 

 

 

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:25 PM, Commandant said:

 

One thing to go back on this as I watch the playoffs. 

 

The more I watch, the more I think Vegas is going to come out of the West AGAIN.

 

This is a team that proves the path we are going down can be successful.  Four solid lines, but no elite superstars, just really good players and lots of speed.  Same on the blueline.  And then their goalie is top notch (though older).

 

We took a step towards replicating that style of play this year amongst our forward group.  We need to improve the defence corps, but the Vegas blue print proves that a deep 23-man team can do damage, even without an elite talent. 

 

And thats without acknowledging that Price and Weber are still elite talent, and that Kotkaniemi might be that type of two-way centre soon (As i stated in another post). 

 

Then there are teams like Colorado and Dallas whose top talents have been dominant.   

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1 hour ago, Neech said:

 

Then there are teams like Colorado and Dallas whose top talents have been dominant.   

 

Right now.... 

 

At most 3 of the top 15 scorers in the NHL will be alive in the playoffs in the second round (MacKinnon is through,  one of Marchand/Marner will get through, Ovechkin is up 3-2).  All the rest have been eliminated. 

 

5 didn't even make the playoffs.

 

Edmonton has 2 of the top 4.

In Chicago, Patrick Kane finished 3rd

 

Without depth, the elite talent doesn't make a difference. 

 

 

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