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REV-G

Nick Suzuki

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Just a comment and a question.

 

I've been following Nick Suzuki's amazing run this season and especially what he's done in the playoffs. 

 

His playoff stats are similar to those of some current NHL superstars like Connor McDavid when they were at his current level.

 

So the question I have is, what do you think his role in the NHL could be?

 

Could he be a bit of a late bloomer in terms of his offensive output? Could he be better than what we thought even a year ago. 

 

I read a reporter say before Christmas that Suzuki will never pull people out of their seats with his offence.

 

Could that have changed now? Has he exceeded where we thought he would be talent and skill wise? 

 

What do you think his NHL role will be? 

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Although I haven't seen him play in person, i would think based on all that I have heard about him he could be a quality secondary scorer with first line potential.   

 

20ish goals 

50ish points

 

really just a guess tho

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I think the man will can set his own top end, from this playoff run, he's on. Why can't he be the 2nd coming of a great player? Martin St Louis set his own top end and he got a cup and a HoF ring to go with it. NS can set his own top end IMHO :)

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1 hour ago, REV-G said:

Just a comment and a question.

 

I've been following Nick Suzuki's amazing run this season and especially what he's done in the playoffs. 

 

His playoff stats are similar to those of some current NHL superstars like Connor McDavid when they were at his current level.

 

So the question I have is, what do you think his role in the NHL could be?

 

Could he be a bit of a late bloomer in terms of his offensive output? Could he be better than what we thought even a year ago. 

 

I read a reporter say before Christmas that Suzuki will never pull people out of their seats with his offence.

 

Could that have changed now? Has he exceeded where we thought he would be talent and skill wise? 

 

What do you think his NHL role will be? 

 

Connor McDavid was doing at 16 and 17 what Suzuki is doing at 19.... Thats not really comparable.  Even Mitch Marner, was one year younger than Suzuki.  

So no, I don't expect the PPG superstar level of prospect here. 

That said, he could be a guy who can put up 60+ points in his prime, playing on the first or second line.   Thats not what I expect out of his rookie season, but what he can do in 2-3 years from now. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Connor McDavid was doing at 16 and 17 what Suzuki is doing at 19.... Thats not really comparable.  Even Mitch Marner, was one year younger than Suzuki.  

So no, I don't expect the PPG superstar level of prospect here. 

That said, he could be a guy who can put up 60+ points in his prime, playing on the first or second line.   Thats not what I expect out of his rookie season, but what he can do in 2-3 years from now. 

 

Thank you for this sensible, measured assessment.

 

Yes, unicorns (like Martin St. Louis) can happen. And I get that you gotta sell hope and that "potential" is always exciting. Nevertheless, I get a bit tired of this understandable tendency to swoon over the "potential" of prospects, especially when they are not super high-end prospects. It does seem safe to say that Suzuki will be a quality NHLer. But a superstar? Come on. It's unlikely that the Habs have anyone in the organization who will fit that bill.

 

If I told you that, right now, the Habs had prospects equivalent to Carey Price, Max Pacioretty, and PK Subban, people on this board would be going cowabunga and predicting multiple Cups. Yet we had all three of those players in their primes and did exactly jack-sh*t. After 15 years of disappointment, my attitude is always gonna be: show me the money, not the hypotheticals.

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Suzuki     1.75ppg in playoffs

Teasdale 1.70ppg in playoffs, an undrafted kid that still seen as a long-shot to be impact NHLer.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Thank you for this sensible, measured assessment.

 

Yes, unicorns (like Martin St. Louis) can happen. And I get that you gotta sell hope and that "potential" is always exciting. Nevertheless, I get a bit tired of this understandable tendency to swoon over the "potential" of prospects, especially when they are not super high-end prospects. It does seem safe to say that Suzuki will be a quality NHLer. But a superstar? Come on. It's unlikely that the Habs have anyone in the organization who will fit that bill.

 

If I told you that, right now, the Habs had prospects equivalent to Carey Price, Max Pacioretty, and PK Subban, people on this board would be going cowabunga and predicting multiple Cups. Yet we had all three of those players in their primes and did exactly jack-sh*t. After 15 years of disappointment, my attitude is always gonna be: show me the money, not the hypotheticals.

 

I still think Kotkaniemi fits that bill, especially if you consider someone like Patrice Bergeron to be an elite superstar (and I do consider Bergeron at that level). 

Kotkaniemi has already shown the defensive game at 18, that is off the charts in terms of advanced stats for someone his age.  It was close to an elite level performance.  Add to that I think his offence can get there.  If we are talking about a 75 point 1st line centre, who is also a guy who is seen as one of the top defensive forwards (selke calbre), then thats a superstar in my opinion. 

Its taking Plekanec in his prime, making him even abetter offensively, and even better defensively.  To me that would be the type of piece you can build your offensive group around. (And who a guy like Suzuki would really complement whether it be on his wing, or as the second centre). 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

If I told you that, right now, the Habs had prospects equivalent to Carey Price, Max Pacioretty, and PK Subban, people on this board would be going cowabunga and predicting multiple Cups. Yet we had all three of those players in their primes and did exactly jack-sh*t.

 

Quite true.

 

And yet ... let me throw in a quote from a recent article from the Athletic, where they analyzed the conference finalists' rosters:

 

Quote

The executive reached out over the weekend and pointed out that not a single player left in the Stanley Cup playoffs makes more than Brent Burns’ $8-million cap hit.

Evander Kane and Marc-Edouard Vlasic are next on San Jose at $7 million each a year. The St. Louis Blues are led cap-wise by Vladimir Tarasenko and Ryan O’Reilly each at $7.5 million followed by Alex Pietrangelo at $6.5 million.

In the Eastern Conference final, the executive continued, you’ve got David Krejci at $7.25 million then Tuukka Rask at $7 million (then the very reasonable deals of Patrice Bergeron at $6.875 million, David Pastrnak at $6.66 million and Brad Marchand at $6.125 million). 

Carolina, with the smallest payroll in the league, is topped by Jordan Staal at $6 million.

 

Maybe it's not necessary to have that $15M superstar, the McDavid or Tavares, on our team in order to contend for the cup. It sure helps, but as the article pointed out, if you spend all your cap on a couple of stars, you will end up with dregs for the supporting cast.

 

Anyway, for me, the glory years of the 70s are forty years in the past, and I no longer have such lofty expectations, so I don't get as severely disappointed when we fail. But I really enjoyed our team this past season, and I look forward to seeing a maturing Kotkaniemi, a Poehling, a Suzuki and other exciting prospects wearing our classic jersey. How good will they be? Time will tell, but I'm optimistic that they will make a team that I am happy (and maybe even proud) to watch.

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Andre Tourigny just compared him to Ryan O'Reilly.

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All I know is for the first time since 93' this team doesn't have a a issue at center.

 

Danault 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Poehling 

Suzuki 

 

If Suzuki and poehling have strong camps and make a push at earning a  spot on opening day roster, I can see them trading danault to try and fill a LD spot.

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29 minutes ago, Metallica said:

If Suzuki and poehling have strong camps and make a push at earning a  spot on opening day roster, I can see them trading danault to try and fill a LD spot.

 

I think that would be much more likely a year from now.

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Danault is too good defensively.  He will not be traded unless someone can eat his defensive minutes.

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58 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

I think that would be much more likely a year from now.

Me too, to be honest. But I also do think one of those centers gets traded for a LD. Not sure which one it would be.

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52 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Me too, to be honest. But I also do think one of those centers gets traded for a LD. Not sure which one it would be.

 

Or one of them will be moved to a wing. At the moment we don't have an elite centre yet, but we have potentially five very good ones, assuming Poehling and Suzuki can do in the NHL (over 82+ games) what we hope they can.

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5 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

Andre Tourigny just compared him to Ryan O'Reilly.

Who is like O'Reilly? I hope more offense than that. In first 8 1/2 years of career OReilly topped out at a 64pt season.

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

Danault is too good defensively.  He will not be traded unless someone can eat his defensive minutes.

Why? A nice LH d-man for Danault to Carolina or the like, could end up being better defense overall.

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14 minutes ago, DON said:

Why? A nice LH d-man for Danault to Carolina or the like, could end up being better defense overall.

I can't see that move being made with an unproven poeling Suzuki kotkaniemi trio. He centered one of the best 5 in 5 lines in the league last year.

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11 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I can't see that move being made with an unproven poeling Suzuki kotkaniemi trio. He centered one of the best 5 in 5 lines in the league last year.

Domi, KK, Weal, Poehling...yeah your right.

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12 hours ago, DON said:

Who is like O'Reilly? I hope more offense than that. In first 8 1/2 years of career OReilly topped out at a 64pt season.

Exactly what Tourigny says, a 60ish pts player.

He says that he's not yet ready to place Suzuki in the same category as Nico Hischier (who's already a 1st line player in the NHL).

That he'll be a top 6 guy, a strong 2nd line player with great skills at reading the game and break passes. That he'll be very hard to play against since that kind of players don't make many mistakes.

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12 hours ago, DON said:

Who is like O'Reilly? I hope more offense than that. In first 8 1/2 years of career OReilly topped out at a 64pt season.

 

A 60 point player out of Suzuki would be a great return. 

I don't think he's going to be some elite PPG player.  But if we get a really good forward, (a solid first line wing, or a solid #2 C), then we have to be happy with that return. 

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31 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

A 60 point player out of Suzuki would be a great return. 

I don't think he's going to be some elite PPG player.  But if we get a really good forward, (a solid first line wing, or a solid #2 C), then we have to be happy with that return. 

OReilly averages 55.8pt/82gms

Drouin 49.4

 

Oreilly had 8g as a rookie, that is what you expect from Suzuki?

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16 minutes ago, DON said:

OReilly averages 55.8pt/82gms

Drouin 49.4

 

Oreilly had 8g as a rookie, that is what you expect from Suzuki?

 

O'Reilly had 8g as an 18year old rookie.  When will Suzuki's rookie season be... 20 (next year), or 21 (one year in Laval).  So its comparing apples to oranges

 

I'm not looking at an exact match... year by year. 

 

You also have to consider in your average that O'Reilly's rookie season at 18 drags down that average, as does his 2nd year when he is also at 26 points. Those are two years that Suzuki is in the OHL instead of NHL. 

 

Take out those seasons... and the lockout shortened year (20 points in 29 games... so on pace for 56)

 

And you see that 55 is his lowest season, not his average.  He's a consistent 55-65 point guy, with one outlier season (this year) of 77. 

If Suzuki becomes a consistent 55-65 point guy, thats a pretty good player. 

 

He was a 13th overall pick.  He wasn't Connor McDavid, or even a Mitch Marner at 1st and 4th overall. 
 

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20 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

 

Anyway, for me, the glory years of the 70s are forty years in the past, and I no longer have such lofty expectations, so I don't get as severely disappointed when we fail. But I really enjoyed our team this past season, and I look forward to seeing a maturing Kotkaniemi, a Poehling, a Suzuki and other exciting prospects wearing our classic jersey. How good will they be? Time will tell, but I'm optimistic that they will make a team that I am happy (and maybe even proud) to watch.

 

Like you, I think the Habs are probably assembling a good, competitive hockey team. Until we have some improvement on D, though, we still have a significant organizational flaw. I will neither be optimistic nor pessimistic until I see the actual team on the ice. Been burned too many times by 'potential'.

 

I do have to push back on the false dichotomy you create between mooning over the lost dynasty era and accepting the way things are. To be blunt, this is nonsense. Nobody expects the Habs to be a dynasty. But how about demanding a bona fide Cup contender? How come the Bruins or Sharks or Lightning can do it consistently and not us? Instead of holding out elite excellence as the standard, way too many Habs fans are now sitting aroung going 'oh well, at least our team is plucky!' The Gainey-Goat-MB teams have done nothing (OK, the 2014/15 teams were knocking on the door but needed more, which of course we did not get). I just don't get this acceptance of the idea that the Habs MUST be destined to being a second- or third-tier franchise. It's more proof to me that the Habs and their fans are now where the Leafs were 20 years ago: 'Pretty good' is, like, awesome!!

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Yes, I agree, we need some serious improvement on defence.

 

I wasn't saying that we shouldn't demand excellence (though a new dynasty is an unrealistic expectation in this NHL era, for any team), it's more my personal perspective that has changed over the years. When I was younger, I would get more agitated or angry when things didn't go our way. Somehow I have mellowed out over the years, and now I can watch our team and enjoy how they play (speed more than the pluckiness -- it's the kind of Habs game that I grew up with, and that I'm happy to see again).

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Another slick goal, banking it in off the goaltender with a backhand last night.
 

 

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